Elimc Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 @Kimmera If they just asked, then why would everyone have to keep their shrines hidden in the basement, like Hadvar says? They weren't the Spanish Inquisition, but they did force people to worship Talos in secret. Are you sure Daedra worship is illegal? I know the Vigilants of Stendarr hunt them down, but I haven't ever seen a law against it. Also, no one on this reddit says that it is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmera Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 @Kimmera If they just asked, then why would everyone have to keep their shrines hidden in the basement, like Hadvar says? They weren't the Spanish Inquisition, but they did force people to worship Talos in secret. Are you sure Daedra worship is illegal? I know the Vigilants of Stendarr hunt them down, but I haven't ever seen a law against it. Also, no one on this reddit says that it is illegal. Check the wiki's. Daedra worship has been illegal under Imperial law in pretty much every Elder Scrolls game. If Daedra worship was legal, then wouldn't the Vigilants be just as bad as the Thalmor? For that matter, why aren't you complaining about the Vigilants hunting down Daedra worshipers regardless? Why isn't Ulfric complaining about this? It has been going on a lot longer than the WGC has been in place. There are no ruined temples of Talos about, depsite there being pretty much every other type of ruin imaginable, so either the Empire has magical 'make temples go away' magic that even the Thalmor don't seem to have, or there wasn't that much open Talos worship to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhelzei Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 To answer the original poster's question, I rarely pick a side. I find both of them to be morally lacking. The Stormcloaks are racist and bigoted. The situation with the Thalmor is a little more complicated. They are not agents or representatives of the Empire, but they are allowed to act freely to enforce their agenda of religious oppression. While I realize this was a necessary compromise to prevent the dissolution of the Empire, my characters so far have looked upon this with disfavor. I should note that I have not tried a playthrough with a Nord character yet. So far my characters that follow the main quest have ended up arranging a peace truce between the two parties. Probably not a permanent solution, but better than constant warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 No, Daedra worship is legal but discouraged. The reason for this is because most mage organizations (Mages Guild, House Telvanni, etc.) summon Daedra as familiars. This is legally allowed (no one tries to arrest you for using conjuration magic). With that in mind, it is fairly difficult to prove whether someone is consorting with Daedra for religious or secular purposes, so the law just ignores it. Vigilants are vigilantes and are not legally sanctioned. Heck, I don't even think that they are sanctioned by the official Church of Stendarr, given that doing vampire quests in Daggerfall increased your reputation with Julianos and Stendarr (while decreasing your reputation with the other Divines): http://uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Deadly_Knowledge Talos wasn't a thing back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmera Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 No, Daedra worship is legal but discouraged. The reason for this is because most mage organizations (Mages Guild, House Telvanni, etc.) summon Daedra as familiars. This is legally allowed (no one tries to arrest you for using conjuration magic). With that in mind, it is fairly difficult to prove whether someone is consorting with Daedra for religious or secular purposes, so the law just ignores it. Vigilants are vigilantes and are not legally sanctioned. Heck, I don't even think that they are sanctioned by the official Church of Stendarr, given that doing vampire quests in Daggerfall increased your reputation with Julianos and Stendarr (while decreasing your reputation with the other Divines): http://uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Deadly_Knowledge Talos wasn't a thing back then. Conjuration is not worship. In fact, in the case of the conjuration spells it is the exact opposite, it is compelling daedra to obey you. No one tries to arrest the vigilants even though they aren't exactly concealed. No one complains about them the same way the Thalmor are complained about even though the two groups are performing the same duties, killing those whose faith they disagree with. Like the shrines to Talos, Daedric shrines are in remote locations or hidden. There is no open worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 No one tries to arrest the Vigilants because most aren't stupid enough to do anything illegal in public. However, groups, like the Dawnguard, are. As I mentioned in another thread, when playing as a vampire, if you are attacked by the Dawnguard in a town, there is a chance that the town guard will side with you. Most Daedric shrines are hidden to avoid annoying Vigilantes. See how no official law enforcement tries to arrest you if you go around in full Daedric or with Daedric artifacts (doing this will provoke the Vigilants, though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmera Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 No one tries to arrest the Vigilants because most aren't stupid enough to do anything illegal in public. However, groups, like the Dawnguard, are. As I mentioned in another thread, when playing as a vampire, if you are attacked by the Dawnguard in a town, there is a chance that the town guard will side with you. Most Daedric shrines are hidden to avoid annoying Vigilantes. See how no official law enforcement tries to arrest you if you go around in full Daedric or with Daedric artifacts (doing this will provoke the Vigilants, though). 1) They don't make any secret about what they are doing and have been doing it since before the Great War let alone the Concordat. 2) The Thalmor don't really patrol public streets either, and the fact that they patrol the wilderness looking for worshipers is also known. With due respect, you really seem confused. Daedic armor is made by killing daedra and using their parts to make armor. As with conjuration spells that is the opposite of worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Modern_Heretics Read the first paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmera Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Modern_Heretics Read the first paragraph. Doesn't change the fact that it is 'Freedom of Religion! How dare the Empire forbid Talos worship!' / 'Nasty Daedra worshipers aren't welcome here!' Thalmor bad / Vigilants ok hypocrisy. And the 'daedea worship is legal because the charter allows summoning' still makes no sense at all even if it is official lore. Also that lore might have changed since Oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Well, if you've started to disagree with the lore, then there's really nothing I can do to convince you of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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