kimmera

There are actually fermented milk drinks... they aren't very strong, but they exist :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumis

It was more than that in Fo3. Lyons chapter was also open and working with the locals as a force for rebuilding society, whereas the main chapter's mandate was to horde all tech to protect society from technology. Lyons approach was a lot more sustainable and practical. Which I thought was rather ironic. The BoS traditionalists became the Outcasts while the "official" local chapter under Lyons had, in fact, gone rogue. Instead of the traditionalists being labeled Outcasts, it should have been Lyons and his followers being labeled Renegades. In theory, yes, but they were still the dominant faction in the region so their name stuck.

It was more than that in Fo3. Lyons chapter was also open and working with the locals as a force for rebuilding society, whereas the main chapter's mandate was to horde all tech to protect society from technology. Lyons approach was a lot more sustainable and practical.

The Brotherhood didn't change between FO2 and FO3. The East Coast offshoot were just that, an offshoot, arguably renegades with respect to the overall organization. FNV has a branch of the main Brotherhood, and they are their usual isolationist tech collecting selves.

The Legion in the Fallout is the opposite of the Empire in the Elder Scrolls series. The NCR symbol is a bear because they are the New California Republic, borrowing the California State Flag as a banner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_California#California_Lone_Star_Flag

Lol... my runs are always clean though. Not spotted, no lives taken just valuables. And the money keeps rolling in regardless of how much or little I work at that (after being appointed leader) so someone else must be doing something. Even if it is protection money, someone has to be out doing the leg work to collect.

With the thieves though you do eventually end up in charge and even though you don't see the recruits doing things, someone besides you has to be filling your Guild Leader chest with loot every week or so. As you say they work alone and quietly and you get the profits. What is wrong with that?

But Esbern seems to think the Dragonborns serve him..... And the Empire still exists, Septim bloodline or not. Do we have any pre-Skyrim lore saying they were something other than the Imperial Secret Service?

Frankly the whole Blades are dragon hunters bit makes no sense.

It depends on how you interpret what you're shown. Nocturnal never says that the Key is necessary for the Ebonmere to work, only that it's going to stay closed until the Key is returned. It's far more likely she's keeping it shut until her property is retuned to her. The Nightingales, as a Daedric Cult, aren't necessarily that reliable a source as to the motivations of the Daedra themselves. Another problem when looking at Tiber Septim is... He's a Reigning King (CHIM), and has almost definitely changed elements of his own history. So it's almost impossible to separate the original history from his revised one, and then you layer propaganda on top of that. However, Wulfhearth's and Arctus' involvement is integral to the enatiomorphic elements of Talos, i at least am more than willing to accept that Wulfhearth was Tiber's voice. We also know that some of the Nordic myths surrounding Tiber Septim are just flat out wrong. No dragons around? Hah! He had one WORKING for him. We also know Paarthurnaax was around. How did the Blades not know about Nafaalilargus though?

Not every Septim came to the Greybeards. And Tibor, we are told, lost his ability to shout very early on so it isn't a given he taught his kids about that. He'd have to confess to having murdered his own King to advance, not something he'd want to encourage in them since he was their ruler. I am tempted to load up the earlier games and try to see if these references are there. They change lore between games. The whole Skeleton Key plot in Skyrim doesn't make sense given the key has been at large for centuries without any mention to any twilight sepulcher. Nocturnal has rewarded people with the key rather than keep it close to avoid risk to her power being cut off simply by a door being closed. Not to mention the ancient coven of pre-Empire vampires living off the coast of Skyrim yet seemingly never being an issue for anyone.... The official lore includes the concept that each playthrough is a separate alternative world, so each new game's continuity does not necessarily completely match the continuity of the prior games 100%. It is not a given that the official games are all actually the same world rather than very similar parallel worlds. Very convenient for the writers...

The Song of Tiber Septim (from the Pocket Guide I linked a couple posts ago) says he went to the Greybeards. Why is it so hard to believe he learned something while he was there? He was Dragonborn and the DB in Skyrim can learn from them essentially instantly. According to that particular lore source, they called him to them just as they do with the DB in Skyrim. Why wouldn't they teach him?

And the Arcturian Heresy indicates that it was Wulfhearth who was Tiber's "Voice", and it was only after he had dispatched Wulfhearth to aid in the expansion into Highrock (and later the double betrayal of the Ash King and Kingmaker) that the story about Tiber's throat being cut was embellished. At this point, it's really down to what one believes... Based on what we know about Tiber Septim, however, i'm personally more inclined to Ysmir over Talos. But how does that fit with the end of Oblivion and Martin's transformation? Isn't the lore associated with Oblivion that the Septim line have dragonblood as a gift form Akatosh, hence the transformation? http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Dragonborn

What voice? Tiber Septim couldn't shout, it was Wulfhearth that did that. According the The Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition: Cyrodiil, Talos had the voice until he slit his own throat to deflect suspicion away from people suspecting correctly that he himself had killed his king, the King of Falkreath, Cuhlecain. He lost his ability to shout as a result. http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_First_Edition/Cyrodiil The more I find details about Tiber Septim the more I suspect that Ulfric might be trying to emulate him closer than we think....

But Ulfric never once makes the distinction of 'Dragonborn.' And the only ones who seem to show any respect to the Dragonborn based on their status rather than their deeds are the Whiterun soldiers in the first dragon encounter, and the Greybeards. Everyone else seems more impressed that the DB has Azura's Star. The Stormcloaks who you claim revere Dragonborn are reluctant to sign a non-Nord dragonborn up, and test them before considering them a real member. Esbern is similar despite knowing the DB has to save the bloody world.

Talos means 'Stormcrown' so 'Stormcloak' seems much more likely to be a name chosen by a rebel Talos supporter than by the Empire trying to suppress said rebels.

That is not strictly true. He was made a general by the King of Falkreath because of that and defeated the Reachmen in that king's service (and interesting side note that at the time there were Kings rather than Jarls, and Falkreath had a large enough army to have a position of 'general), but then assassinated his king and took over. He got the rest of Skyrim as well as Cyrodiil on side simultaneously much later at the Battle of Sancre Tor, where he tricked the enemy forces into leaving their fortress and snuck his troops into the fortress via the back door, the promptly used the defensive power of the fortress to give him the advantage to defeat his enemies. They were so impressed the Skyrim generals signed on. The High Rock (Breton) leadership was executed and the Breton troops sold into slavery or imprisoned... maybe this is where the 'Nords only' mentality came from? http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Sancre_Tor_(Book) It is also worth noting that Talos means 'Stormcrown' so it is hard to consider 'Stormcloak' to be an insult. Furthermore, Ulfric isn't Dragonborn, and treats THE Dragonborn as a lackey. He promotes the DB but certainly doesn't consider them an equal, let alone a superior even after the DB defeats Alduin and/or Miraak and/or saves Tamriel from vampires that have been in Skyrim since before Talos, yet strangely seem not to be a concern for Ulfric or the Empire.... Edit: moreover, Skyrim didn't suddenly say 'the deal is off' during the Oblivion Crisis when the last Septim was believed dead, nor at the end when the last Septim *was* dead. Ulfric never once uses the death of the Septim line as justification either.

i don't think you grast the sevirty of Ulfric's a actions Here try a contemtory example Ulfric is a guvonor, and a war vetran, he goes to the white house kills the president, vice president and the other head members of the judiciary brach leaving behind the only person remotely close to the ruling body being the first lady, then he arms a milita and declares the US needs to break all internatioanl ties and become a independent nation while setting his militioa to take any disagreeing sates and counties by force. Ulfric didn't just kill a guy he destroyed the entire field of power in skyrim, Rember skyrim is rulled by a high King not a council so taking out the high king takes out the entire politcal structure of the empire. The better example would be a veteran of Iraq returns with his unit to Puerto Rico, where he kills the governor in what he claims was a legal duel (or in 'self defense' might be a better modern equivalent), then flees San Juan to his own neighborhood where he hooks up with his unit who are all loyal to him and takes up the fight for Puerto Rican independance. Then complains when the US intervenes. Last time that I checked, the US did not suppress Puerto Rican religious freedom. A better example is the current situation in Asia where the Chinese government declared that it will appoint the next religious leader of Tibet after the Dalai Lama steps down. If a Tibetan militia kills the Party Secretary in Tibet in retaliation, along with any local politicians appointed by the Communist Government, then they would be justified in their rebellion. I gave you a hypothetical situation. You tossed it out on the basis it isn't a 'real' situation. No such real veteran is doing any such real thing. Why does it have to be religion? What if the veteran and his men just object that strongly to US foreign policy based on what they saw in Afghanistan? What if they just don't like the national debt situation and want to distance themselves from what they see as a self destructive economic situation? And China threatens all sorts of things. They consider Taiwan to still be theirs. Frankly, even if Italy tried to choose the next Pope it would not mean a rebellion is justified. The world would not be obligated to agree that the Chinese choice was the new Dalai Lama, nor would they be obligated to recognize the Italian government's hypothetical choice of a new Pope. Those are not situations worth killing over. Tibet has been part of China for centuries and was run by warlords before being conquered by China. It was no 'Shangra-La' regardless of the mysticism around the Dalai Lama. Tibet isn't that bad an analogy though. It was considered part of China by the Yuan dynasty, but left under semi-autonomous rule, with an administer chosen by the Lama but approved by the Emperor. That only ended because of the takeover of China by the Ming dynasty, but was re-established in the early 1700's. Note this was before Russia would acquire Crimea or Ukraine or the US would acquire California, all of those acquisitions also by war. After 300 years, does it still count as 'occupation,' especially given how much the rest of the world's borders have changed in that time? Should the US abandon North America? They are technically occupiers too.... There was another period of autonomy in the 1900's but that led to the warlords I mentioned and then with the Chinese revolution it was back under Chinese control.

Except that Ulfric was captured before the Imperial City was captured by the Thalmor: According to Thalmor documents, Ulfric was captured by them early in the conflict and interrogated by Elenwen, who later became First Emissary to Skyrim. Through this interrogation, they learned his importance, and he yielded information which they then convinced him had been essential in their seizing of the Imperial City, though the city had actually fallen before he gave up the information. Ulfric's "escape" from the Thalmor was likewise before the BotRR because after the battle there was no AD army in Cyrodiil to escape from. Further, it is unlikely that they would have transported Ulfric very far because it takes time to transport a prisoner very far, and that time would be better spent conducting interrogations that might yield info that was relevant to where they were then and there. If Ulfric was with his unit (Legion or militia) when he was captured, then likely the unit was destroyed. [Don't know if they kept POWs as SOP, or if useless prisoners would have been summarily executed during TGW. Never heard anything about POW exchanges.] Judging from the one Thalmor jail we saw under the Thalmor embassy, prisoners would get wrung for anything of value and then their bodies went down the trash chute. That is highly unlikely. After being invaded by the AD while there was a Legion in place, the Empire would willingly disarm itself and trust the AD to NOT invade again against NO opposition? The city had fallen before he gave up the info, but that does not mean that he was captured before it was attacked. And the Empire was busy trying to defend the city. If they had men to spare to rescue PoW's they probably wouldn't have lost the city in the first place. Keep in mind that for the city to have fallen before he gave up the info, he had to have still been a captive after the city had fallen. I agree though that demobilization of the Imperial Army was not a condition. In fact it is blatantly obviously not since the Imperial Army still fields troops in Skyrim, and sent troops to relieve Ulfric at Markarth (which is when they realized his ultimatum).

He didn't put the Dragonborn in his speech to make himself look more important in history books. He put the Dragonborn in his speech to legitimize his standing. He hasn't even been voted in by the Jarls yet at this stage and even though he has won the civil war on paper, he hasn't necessarily won the hearts of all of the people yet. He wants every political edge he can get.

i don't think you grast the sevirty of Ulfric's a actions Here try a contemtory example Ulfric is a guvonor, and a war vetran, he goes to the white house kills the president, vice president and the other head members of the judiciary brach leaving behind the only person remotely close to the ruling body being the first lady, then he arms a milita and declares the US needs to break all internatioanl ties and become a independent nation while setting his militioa to take any disagreeing sates and counties by force. Ulfric didn't just kill a guy he destroyed the entire field of power in skyrim, Rember skyrim is rulled by a high King not a council so taking out the high king takes out the entire politcal structure of the empire. The better example would be a veteran of Iraq returns with his unit to Puerto Rico, where he kills the governor in what he claims was a legal duel (or in 'self defense' might be a better modern equivalent), then flees San Juan to his own neighborhood where he hooks up with his unit who are all loyal to him and takes up the fight for Puerto Rican independance. Then complains when the US intervenes.

Likely the entire unit got captured. The AD held the city for months, and it wasn't like the Empire could just walk in on rescue missions. Even harder if he'd been shipped out of Cyrodiil.

Post-WW2, who was it that was busily tracking down Nazis throughout Germany and Austria? It wasn't the German government. "To the victors goes the spoils." By the terms of the WGC, Talos worship is forbidden. It doesn't specify who was supposed to conduct the actual policing. The Empire had been giving that part of the treaty lip service. But then the Markarth Incident occurred and the Thalmor saw that lip service for what it was. So, "If you won't uphold that part of the treaty, then we will have to do it!" To which the Empire agreed. (Better to have Talos worshipers hating the Thalmor for hunting them down then for them to be hating the Empire for having done it. Cheaper for the Empire too.) Moreover there are still US troops in Germany, although these days mostly to watch the Russians...

That is only a very small portion of the population that is happening to, and it isn't clear that was happening before Markarth. Again, Ulfric opened the door by trying to blackmail Skyrim and the Empire into breaking the treaty. And in RL people get extradited all the time for things they didn't do in their native country, or for actions that violate a treaty or otherwise broke another country's laws. An example would be Canadian drug laws, which aren't as strict as US laws but are heavily influenced by the historical US nigh zero tolerance even for drug possession. A Canadian was infamous for shipping pot seeds to the US, and was extradited to the US to face charges, convicted and did jail time despite never being charged in Canada. The US similarly is charging the head of FIFA and is working on getting him extradited to the US. I am not sure you understand modern international law or the degree to which the US tries to extend its legal system beyond US borders in RL, let alone any actions by the Thalmor.

I don't know if it's EASIER to conclude that, but its certainly a possibility. Without knowing exactly in what capacity Ulfric served, it's impossible to know... Though, no information on the Great War notes any local/militia forces from Daggerfall or Skyrim, only from Hammerfell, so I at least think it's likely that Ulfric served in the Legion proper, rather than as an adjoined auxiliary formation. That would also support the fact that no auxiliaries are mentioned regarding the Red Ring, and the hunts that many Stormcloaks are former legionaires. I also recall (though cannot check for sources at this moment) mention of Ulfric raising an army to retake Markarth, not just calling on a standing one. It does seem somewhat confused, but I don't think that Ulfric served formally in the Legion. If he did, there is no way his unit would simply disband after the war. The Empire needs them too much. If he led a militia unit attached to a legion, however, the Empire would have less direct authority over their fate after the war. If Ulfric and his men were simply allowed to retire at their whim at a time when the Empire is desperately short on troops, it would be a major structural problem on the part of the Legion.