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Beast Machine, bad performance


LordEmm

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I recently upgraded my computer to a real beast and thought "Wouldn't it be neat to see what it can do with Oblivion now?". After killing Crysis and Call of Duty (two other perfomance hoggers), i reinstalled Oblivion including all DLC (except Battlespire).

 

First test: well around 60fps (which makes sense as a max since my LCD monitor has a 60hz refresh rate).

After reinstalling most of the mods i liked and some new ones, fps dropped to around 30 (in the starting cell area). Around flickering light sources it drops sometimes to around 20. It is definitely NOT the hirez textures (i installed those first, then still got 60fps).

What really stumps me is that even if i have ALL esp unchecked (except for the DLC), it does not change at all. Also hi rez textures or not makes no difference at all either. I am suspecting some rogue scripts, but how can i find them?

 

I am really wondering what is going wrong here... I am sure i should not see much of a drop at all considering my specs.

 

Before any of you says anything, yes i did spend hours even days to read various performance tweaks and guides. Time to give you specs (and a load list after):

 

Windows7 Ultimate64

 

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition at 3.6Ghz

8GB DDR3 ram

ATI radeon 5870 with 1GB VRAM

 

compared to how i ran Oblivion heavily modded about a year ago:

 

WindowsVista Ultimate64

 

AMD Athlon X2 5200+ at 2.6Ghz

8GB DDR2 ram

ATi radeon 4850 with 512MB VRAM

 

---------

No the load order (yes it is very long, please forgive me):

 

Oblivion.esm

CM Partners.esm

IceElfRace.esm

SC_Drow Race.esm

Oblivion Sexualized Monsters.esm

BathingMod_Base.esm

Cobl Main.esm

Better Cities Resources.esm

bookplacing.esm

UnnecessaryViolence.esm

Joinable Riverview.esp

Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp

BEER_Inebriation.esp

Leviathan Soulgems.esp

Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp

CLS-Sailboats-COBL.esp

Real Hunger, Cobl.esp

X.Races.Comp.esp

FF_Real_Thirst.esp

Hidden_Elves.esp

FF_Real_Thirst, Cobl.esp

Ancient Elven Sorceress - EV.esp

SC_Drow Race Addon - Magic & Armor.esp

CuteElf11.esp

Muffin Display Rooms.esp

KB - House of Wonders.esp

CM Partners.esp

DLCShiveringIsles.esp

Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp

KendoGirl_Final.esp

DLCHorseArmor.esp

DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp

DLCOrrery.esp

DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp

DLCFrostcrag.esp

DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp

Kyoma's Spell Renamer.esp

DLCThievesDen.esp

DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp

DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp

DLCMehrunesRazor.esp

DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp

DLCVileLair.esp

DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp

DLCSpellTomes.esp

PrincessImperialCityApartment-COBL.esp

Bisquits01.esp

Elves Of Lineage II.esp

DemonRace.esp

Nec Mystic High Elf-Remake.esp

Nec Mystic Dark Elf-Remake.esp

The Sexy BeastV1.2.esp

AsharasSirensAndTritons.esp

Abriael_Human.esp

Advanced Magecraft.esp

Vows and Covenants.esp

sun_&_night_elves.esp

Chocolate Elves.esp

Oonas_Outfitters.esp

Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp

Elves Of Lineage II Female Anime Voice.esp

xGG_Lolita_Revived.esp

Atropa.esp

UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp

Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp

Arrows of Channeling.esp

Knights.esp

Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp

Reznod_Mannequin_HD[Eng].esp

Shadowcrest_Vineyard_COBL.esp

mymerged Hair and Eyes.esp

ZmergedClothArmor.esp

z2MergedArmor.esp

zArmor3.esp

YoungerNPCs.esp

Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp

Witch's Throne.esp

No psychic guards v1.2.esp

sycHearNoEvil.esp

MyArmortest.esp

Colourwheels Sexy Stock Armor & Clothing Replacer.esp

Colourwheels Sexy Female NPCs.esp

Colourwheels Sexy Imperial Legion.esp

Knyghts.esp

MolagBalTreasury.esp

EY_AoD.esp

Demon_Consort.esp

Sonia.esp

BHC_Expanded.esp

zzEDialog.esp

bartholm.esp

Harvest [Flora].esp

Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp

moDem's City Life.esp

Blood Is Everything.esp

Order of the Virtuous Blood Expanded v0.3.esp

SpreadingVampirism_NoSecondaryInfection.esp

Healer.esp

eyja.esp

CoverYourself.esp

BookTrackerOBSE.esp

Guard Sex.esp

sexdarkness_Eng_only_last.esp

Damsels_In_Distress.esp

Poses.esp

CMAllXenius.esp

Potiondesign.esp

SM Bounty.esp

StealthOverhaul.esp

StealthOverhaul, Cobl.esp

Naughty_Joana_01.esp

Get Wet - just droplets.esp

exhDual_Wield_Complete.esp

SC_Drow Race Addon - Plus Pack.esp

BasicInstinct.esp

sexycompanion.esp

Oblivion Gate Map Marker Remover.esp

Poseidon_ii_s Super Sexy CM Companion Pack NoMartialArt.esp

EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer.esp

EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp

EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp

Olivia01.esp

Dibella_priestess.esp

BathingMod_Bathrooms.esp

SupremeMagicka.esp

SM_EnchantStaff.esp

SM_ShiveringIsles.esp

EnchantmentMastery.esp

P1DseeYouSleep.esp

P1DseeYouSleep - DLCVileLair.esp

SeductiveIdles.esp

OSM-All Genders.esp

personality_idles_custom.esp

Crowded Cities 15.esp

Map Marker Overhaul.esp

Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp

road+bridges.esp

NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp

WindowLightingSystem.esp

xulAncientRedwoods.esp

xulAncientYews.esp

xulArriusCreek.esp

xulAspenWood.esp

xulBlackwoodForest.esp

xulBravilBarrowfields.esp

xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp

xulCheydinhalFalls.esp

xulCloudtopMountains.esp

xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp

XulEntiusGorge.esp

xulFallenleafEverglade.esp

xulImperialIsle.esp

xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp

xulLushWoodlands.esp

xulPantherRiver.esp

Bartholm-Panther River Patch.esp

xulRiverEthe.esp

xulSkingradOutskirts.esp

xulStendarrValley.esp

xuldarkforest.esp

xulTheHeath.esp

xulRollingHills_EV.esp

xulPatch_AY_AC.esp

xulChorrolHinterland.esp

Better Cities .esp

Better Cities - Full City Defences.esp

Better Cities Full.esp

Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp

Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp

Better Imperial City.esp

Better Cities - COBL.esp

Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp

Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp

Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp

Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp

SB IC Palace Tower Light Mod v1.1 - Modified Version.esp

NibenRiverFix.esp

RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp

LetThePeopleDrink.esp

Arthur_Natural_Weather_HDR_by_Max_Tael.esp

Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp

Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp

Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp

BCSkingrad-SkingradOutskirts patch.esp

BCCheydinhalFULL-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp

BCChorrol-ChorrolHinterland fix.esp

BCBravilFULL-Barrowfields patch.esp

NRB4+Vineyard Patch.esp

NRB4+UL-II+LtPD Patch.esp

DropLitTorchOBSE.esp

Colourwheels Sexy Female NPCs Vwalk UOS.esp

Better Cities Full Vwalk.esp

Better Imperial City Vwalk.esp

kuerteeCrimeHasWitnesses.esp

P-Froggys Wall Climbing EV.esp

kuerteeNPCsYield.esp

kuerteeSittableRocks.esp

RealSleepExtended.esp

kuerteeCustomisableHUDComponents.esp

Enhanced Economy.esp

Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp

Better Cities - House price patch.esp

bartholm - EE patch.esp

Fishing in Cyrodiil.esp

UnnecessaryViolence.esp

Enhanced Grabbing.esp

Enhanced Grabbing - Unnecessary Violence Liaison.esp

kuerteeClothingMatters.esp

DS Companion Wardrobe Manager.esp

StarX Vampire Deaths.esp

Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp

Cobl Si.esp

Cobl Glue.esp

RefScope.esp

SetBody.esp

Friends&Lovers.esp

Bashed Patch, 0.esp

LCD MDMix.esp

 

 

There are several files in there merged carefully by myself (using TES4Edit, copying entries to a new mod, making sure they work). They are mostly CM Companions and armors/clothing (e.g. all the "zmerged armor" or "myarmortest" ones, also CMall and CMXeniusall). I also merged some single global editing files like "Brighter Torches", or "Joinable Riverview" into other esps, so as to reduce the total number of ESPs. "Poses.esp" is pretty much all the pose mods i could find (CTAddpose whatitsname, Estrus, Chain it, etc..)

 

Obviously because of the HUD and Cobl mods i use PLUGGY v132. Also OBSE in it's latest beta (i think 18v6).

There is HGEC as the model replacer (and BBB by Coronerra along with his skeleton) with Ozmos hi rez texures. Also as mentioned QARLs TP3.

 

Now keep in mind ALL these work together as they are, no crashes (at least not more than usual for Oblivion). But i have a feeling i am missing something and i SHOULD get much more FPS out of my system. I did notice that when i took out the Oblivion Crash Prevention System for OBSE i got about 4-5 FPS. Also as said before flickering lights give it a huge hit. When i look at the blank wall in start dungeon cell i get 60fps even looking up into the window. But as i turn to the torch, it goes to around 20-30. Just staring at it sometimes goes into the mid 10s sometimes low 30s.

 

I already resinstalled the complete Oblivion to test and clean any unwanted textures/meshes. As i said a clean install with no mods only DLC will give me 60fps. I do not have the nerve to again try to install mod by mod (especially since so many are interdependant)...

 

Does the sheer amount of files in the Data folder matter? Amount of esps? How about how many of the esps have masters or are masters themselves? I still think it is the number of scripts running, but then again why would it not go up again when i deselect all mods?

 

It is not that it is unplayabale (and it looks awesome. If Oblivion came out looking like this today, it would win best graphics awards again i believe). I just have a feeling i am losing performance when i shouldn't.

 

Oh, forgot settings for graphics:

 

1920x1200res

HDR lighting and AA x8 (via Catalyst not via Oblivion).

High detail on everything. (but makes no difference if off or low).

Shadows off/on makes no difference.

Everything else on default.

 

Hope somebody out there with some experience can give me some ideas...

 

Cheers,

Emm

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What really stumps me is that even if i have ALL esp unchecked (except for the DLC), it does not change at all.

sounds like its texture or settings related.

 

or perchance one of the non-esp mods

 

are you using:

 

"oblivion stutter remover" (it has unusual settings and strives {by default} for a very different low FPS)

 

QTP3 - "designed to bring strong systems to their knees"

 

in any case, that load order doesn't look like you've used BOSS (found on Tesnexus)

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HI Fonger, thanks for the quick reply...

 

Yeah i did use Oblivion Stutter Remover, and removing the remover actually gave me around 3-4 fps in the most intense segments (like flickering torches). I am a little afraid to test the game even outside the dungeon, because if one torch can have that effect (60fps while looking at the cell wall, 24 while looking at the torch) i wouldn't want to know what the animated window lighting system will do...

 

I did try BOSS once before and it completely destroyed my game (i had forgotten to backup my load order beforehand). I sort load order by hand (especially since i modified several of the mods and checked what is supposed to overrule what).

If i understood Wrye Bash better, like it's BALO feature i might try that.

 

But can load order really make a difference to how fast a game performs? And shouldn't the Bash Patch from Wrye Bash solve any leftover conflicts anyway? Especially when looked at in TES4Edit it seems that way.

 

What gets me though is that i read posts from even years back that use QTP3 and several other high res texture mods and claim to be getting 45fps and much much worse systems than mine. I mean mine is really high end and it should have no problems with textures at all. It is not that the game is running badly, i am just wondering if it shouldn't run much better than it is.

 

Can anybody give me a list of mods (espless or not) which are KNOWN to be performance hinderances? Maybe because of bad scripts and all that. I do think it has to do with that in my case.

 

Well, i will try some things, but i am always grateful for any more advice and hints. Maybe somebody else with a similar load list (and hi res textures) could post their system specs and framerates, so i can compare a little. Also maybe some could post the "Oblivion.ini" so i could compare that with mine. Maybe there are some settings i overlooked.

And just to reiterate, yes i did read all the tweak guides and scoured the forums. And that is what frustrates me so, because my comp seems to have much more power than others that say they get much higher framerates.

 

Thanks in advance,

Emm

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I am seeing a series of this kind of post. Supposedly super systems with dismal performance on a 4 year old game. I have been looking for a common factor, but haven't found it yet. If you find something , let me know so I can pass it on to others with this kind of problem.

 

Here are my Slow Game suggestions so far

http://tesnexus.com/articles/article.php?id=255

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Thanks for the suggestions, i did look at them but none made any noticable difference.

 

The weird thing is, i have added MORE hi res textures and now my fps around the torch is up by 11fps on average. Could broken Textures and Meshes also be a problem here? I still suspect scripts, but that is hard to test because so many mods need each other and disabling them all would simply mean a pure Oblivion with higher res textures and that ran at constant max 60fps before i added any ESP/ESM mods.

 

Well more testing less playing, or was it the other way around ;)

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Okay, found something new today. Compared a fresh resinstall of Oblivion with one having only hi res texture packs installed with another one with my mod list above (but no hi res textures) and a 4th one with ALL of the above.

 

Here is what i found. The SAME problems and exact same FPS (on average) on all 4 configurations. In fact putting in new textures actually seems to help more than hinder.

On the new install i first thought, great it works, but then i played until the King comes into your cell and as soon as the extra NPC appeared my FPS dropped from the max (V-sync) 60 to under 20. That happened in every configuration.

 

I think that is extremely weird, but i think it proves that Oblivion actually has a problem with high end hardware (or rather new high end hardware, as guess it runs fine on 2 year old machines, or so i read). I am really frustrated with this, and a little bit confused as Fallout 3, which i thought uses the same engine, runs absolutely smooth (actually did on my previous PC as well).

 

And it is only Oblivion which has this problem. Every other game has increased performance from the new hardware.

 

Damn, i thought i could finally use all these nice mods, only to find it's the hardware that limits it. And not in the way it was when the game came out first.

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  • 9 months later...

UPDATE

 

I have TWO HD 5850's in crossfire, 8 gb ddr3 1600, core i7 860 3.53 ghz. The issue is definitely the cards! I had a pair of GTX 285's in sli, which are older and weaker, and had great performance near torches. and it IS the torches conflicting with the new card, because everywhere else in oblivion ran BETTER! My Oblivion install was left intact when I upgraded, and the upgrade from the GTX 285's to the HD 5850's was the only change to hardware!

Edited by shakuvendell
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UPDATE

 

I have TWO HD 5850's in crossfire, 8 gb ddr3 1600, core i7 860 3.53 ghz. The issue is definitely the cards! I had a pair of GTX 285's in sli, which are older and weaker, and had great performance near torches. and it IS the torches conflicting with the new card, because everywhere else in oblivion ran BETTER! My Oblivion install was left intact when I upgraded, and the upgrade from the GTX 285's to the HD 5850's was the only change to hardware!

 

Having SLi or Crossfire won't make Oblivion running better. And make sure you deleted Oblivion.ini(then regenerate it, configure graphic options) when you changed hardware and driver.

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Update: I dropped settings to low in the launcher. 24 fps near the two torch-wielding guards in market district, near Green Emperor Way, and then up to 70 fps as soon as they were off screen!

 

Oblivion is listed as both SLI and CrossfireX optimized all over the internet, and in general I do notice performance improvements with both sli and crossfire configurations. It's just near torches held by npcs. torches on walls, and player held torches aren't a problem. Deleting and regenerating the .ini did not help. I have seen several other people dealing with this problem with newer Radeon cards. hopefully it will be remedied by future drivers... for now, I will keep trying.

Edited by shakuvendell
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I also have to say that crossfire does in fact increase performance, so whoever said it didn't simply is wrong. I notice a very stable 30-50% gain depending on the surroundings, but especially in NPC heavy areas the gains are the most.

I haven't been able to do much in game testing lately because i am sorting out a problem between Kyomas "Menu Que" and the Obja.dll needed to play the game with japanese language support.

 

However since i first wrote my problem, i have found out that one of my crossfire bridges had been broken and seriously slowed down my computer. Since i replaced that every single game i benchmarked doubled their performance, so i am holding out hope for Oblivion as well :) Maybe it also newer drivers, as the OpenCL drivers provided by ATI are definitely giving me a boost.

 

I will write more about my experience once i can actually game again and not just mod and merge and edit ;)

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