Essential NPCs Not Unconscious

[MichikoUnknownFox]

Also posted in Bethsoft Forums but nobody seems to know anything there. This post is updated with my new observations, so you need not read the original post at Bethsoft.

 

Hi. Does anybody know what would cause essential NPCs to not go into the unconscious state? What happens in my game is that essential NPCs actually die, as in you can loot their corpses and everything, and they never get back up (I stood beside the corpse of my supposedly essential CM Partner for 10 whole minutes, which was how I learned I have this bug in the first place). After that I started bug testing and going into towns for essential NPCs and killing them in various ways (using the console command "kill", manually killing them with my weapon, having other NPCs kill them using startcombat, and the console command modav health -x). I don't get the "NPC is unconscious" message, they never resurrect, and all their corpses are lootable.

 

Before you ask, yes I'm sure they're essential. I see the crown icon when I come close to them, and I even set "setrefessential 1" on NPCs for bug testing, and they still die.

 

I've already checked and it doesn't seem to be any of my mods. I've tried deactivating all of my mods except the official Shivering Isles mod, and the unofficial patches for Oblivion + SI. Even with all of that off, my NPCs are still killable.

 

I think it's a game setting that a mod that I have may be setting in the background. I can't pinpoint it yet, but I think it happens right at the start of the game when all my mods are loaded for the first time. I'll run a test later by starting a new game and checking if Baurus and the Emperor are killable.

 

Naturally I'm worried that an important NPC for a quest may end up dying without my knowledge, especially since I have all those NPC mods, including mods that add bandits and more creatures to my roads for more danger. Also it's annoying knowing a game system is supposed to work but isn't, making the essential tag completely useless at that. Not to mention my lovely CM Partner actually dying. :(

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

 

P.S.:

 

In case it helps, here's some additional information that may or may not be useful.

 

* This is a fairly new game. I went to Weynon Priory right after shopping in Market District. After Weynon Priory, I went to Chorrol to bug test.

 

* This bug already existed, even in an older save game from a few weeks ago with mostly different mods (I uninstalled, then reinstalled Oblivion and downloaded a new set of mods, though some mods stayed, such as Deadly Reflex), but at the time I didn't think much of it because I simply used the console to resurrect my CM Partner, who was the only supposedly essential NPC that I saw die. This was when I first noticed it.

 

* Reloading earlier saves changes nothing.

 

 

I will update this information after I test if it happens right at the start of the game. Though any help from people who know what game settings may fix this is appreciated.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

- edit: Tried starting a new game and... I get a CTD right after chargen, which obviously sucks. It happens even with all mods disabled. Not sure what that means, but I guess I'll have to clear out my data folder (again) and carefully and slowly select all my mods, to see what's causing both the CTD and the mortal essential NPCs.

 

 

- edit2: Uninstalled Oblivion and reinstalled it (again). I only have the official and unofficial patches, including SI now. Tested a new game and everything's working properly (no surprises here). Now to add my mods slowly and see which one causes essentials to die. :(

[TodaY]

I think one of the mods you used before and after reinstalling is causing this (disabling wont work sometimes, the mod will still be active in the background). I suggest you put your load order of those mods down here. Look specificly (omg i wrote that wrong) for mods that are likely to contain or change vanilla scripts concerning NPC behaviour. Thank you for putting so much information about your problem online, it really helps when trying to find a problem.

[MichikoUnknownFox]

Haha yeah I'm trying to figure out which one it is. So far so good. As expected, it's not Deadly Reflex or any of my aesthetic mods, body/animation, etc.

 

I'm just waiting for my Francesco's optional files download. Since I'm reinstalling mods, might as well give those item add-ons a try. But I doubt it's Francesco's anyway, because I didn't even have Francesco's until about a few days ago, and I already had the bug before then.

 

Next up I'm gonna test some of my game system mods, like those that affect magic and enchantment.

 

My testing space is hilarious btw. I'm right at the start at the starting prison cell, TGM on, and I made all the NPCs fight each other, including the guy that insults you (made him essential too just for kicks). So far, they're all resurrecting as they should be.

 

I'll keep this updated as I figure out what went wrong, and a fix if I can figure it out. If I can replicate what causes the bug, it might solve problems for other people that might have the same issue in the future. :)

 

 

- edit: Here are the mods that might have anything to do with it that I've tested so far, for documentation purposes. I won't list down the mods that I'm 100% sure won't affect anything, such as weapon and clothing mods, and texture replacers and stuff that have no esp/esm, and my own personal mods where I know that I didn't touch any game settings.

 

[Game Settings]

Official Shivering Isles

UOP

USIP

Enhanced Weather (this shouldn't have affected anything anyway, but just in case, I tested it and logged it here)

 

[Animations, behavior]

Deadly Reflex 5

 

[NPCs]

CM Partners 2.0

Tamriel Travellers 1.39

Smarter Bandits 1.1

kuertee Wandering Encounters 0.53

Crowded Cities & Roads (all kinds)

 

Continuing testing my mods as I add them a handful at a time. Will edit this part accordingly. :)

[TodaY]

I use all the mods execpt for Deadly reflect, and the 2 NPC mods, and never experienced any problems. And I don't see any of these mods altering NPC essential settings either... Maybe something went wrong while installing a mod? *twice? omg im stupid -.-"*

[bben46]

Any time you have to troubleshoot anything first remove Deadly Reflex and Streamline. Deadly reflex changes so many things it can affect almost anything. And Streamline changes graphics settings in your Oblivion.ini while you play.

 

Many times, just unchecking an esp does not remove All of a mod, the textures, meshes, animations and other parts are still loaded and can cause problems. That is what makes OBMM OMODs so popular, when you disable an OMOD, it actually does remove everything that it installed, completely removing the mod from the game and allowing the vanilla meshes, textures etc to work again.

 

Here is a fully reversible way to remove all mods and have just the vanilla unmodified game.

Bben's Oblivion Revert to Vanilla game

http://www.tesnexus.com/articles/article.php?id=340

 

Start with this, then use OBMM to create OMODs of each mod to place in the game (or use Wrye Bash Bain) install one at a time and Test before adding another.

 

I use 2 basic locations for testing. The first is a save with no mods just outside the sewer at the end of the tutorial. When you add mods, do not overwrite this one as you may need it again. you can make as many new saves in the same location as you need.

 

The second is in the market district of the Imperial City at about noon. That is when the most NPCs are running about. You will see any problems with FPS here, as well as problems with interactions between your character and NPCs. Get into a fight here as part of your testing.

[MichikoUnknownFox]

Thanks for the info. I don't use Streamline cuz I didn't like some of the things it did, and it's arguable that I could configure it but that makes it pretty much useless to me. Hence, I'd rather not risk something continuously touching my INI settings.

 

Next time I need to revert to Vanilla I'll follow your prescribed procedures. :) I actually have saves at the beginning as soon as you regain control of your character after the Emperor talks to you for the first time, and one outside the sewers. Unfortunately these saves have practically all of my currently active mods, at least before I reinstalled, because I didn't think there'd be a problem, since I'd already played a previous game with the then-current mods without a problem... Except that I forgot about the dying essential NPCs issue.

 

Anyway my testing is going well so far. Essentials are getting knocked out as they should. Even though everything's going to plan, I somehow want to replicate whatever caused it in the first place, so I know what to do. But I seem to be running out of mods that can affect anything at all, as all that's left for me to install now are the clothing, weapons, idle/stance animations, races and hair mods, and the texture/mesh replacers, all of which have nothing to do with game settings. Somehow I'm disappointed, but whatever. D: At least I know what to do now if I ever run into more problems.

 

I'm not done testing though, as I'll test with an actual game and flow through the tutorial appropriately, just in case it's a game setting being changed during or after the tutorial. I'll do it later though cuz I'm getting tired of sitting at the PC for such a long time.