Ulfric's voice

[FennecFyre]

In my first game, I was all for Ulfric. I was already angry at the empire for wanting to execute me for doing jack squat, so thank god I didn't join him right away. As I played, I realized what a racist fanatic he was, and while I can understand wanting to shake off the Thalmor (seriously, f*#@ those guys) he isn't doing it the right way.

 

Even so, when I joined up with the Legion, I still felt a knot in my stomach. Gotta love a game that can do that to you.

[GetTheJojDone]

 

 

 

A voluntary cult of personality.

 

 

 

 

Laila's son, Saerlund disagrees.

 

Yes, but he doesn't support the cause, in addition to the person.

 

 

So logically, the Jarl places her own son under house arrest. Real paragons of virtue, these Stormcloaks.

[Kraeten]

So logically, the Jarl places her own son under house arrest. Real paragons of virtue, these Stormcloaks.

 

 

And the Imperials know all about virtue? Please. The Imperials torture people, and will even hand off people to the Thalmor to be tortured like Thorald Graymane. Back in the days of Uriel Septim, the count and countess of Bravil entertained themselves by butchering Argonians in their little dungeon. Meanwhile the Stormcloaks put people under house arrest, and in one city keep minorities segregated....yep that's so much worse. :rolleyes:

[Lachdonin]

 

So logically, the Jarl places her own son under house arrest. Real paragons of virtue, these Stormcloaks.

 

And the Imperials know all about virtue? Please. The Imperials torture people, and will even hand off people to the Thalmor to be tortured like Thorald Graymane. Back in the days of Uriel Septim, the count and countess of Bravil entertained themselves by butchering Argonians in their little dungeon. Meanwhile the Stormcloaks put people under house arrest, and in one city keep minorities segregated....yep that's so much worse. :rolleyes:

Except, Ulfric wants to return to the days when the Nords were viscious raiders who took rather than built.

The days where they exterminated entire races, murdered and raped nations and engaged in their own internal warfare for no reason other than proving who was stronger.

[Kraeten]

Except, Ulfric wants to return to the days when the Nords were viscious raiders who took rather than built.

The days where they exterminated entire races, murdered and raped nations and engaged in their own internal warfare for no reason other than proving who was stronger.

 

Ulfric wants a future where Skyrim isn't beholden to a distant Empire that cares nothing for the provinces it rules. Beyond that, we can only speculate. If he does want Skyrim to become the grisly portrait you're painting, he's clearly going about it all wrong at the present. Ulfric has had numerous chances to present himself as a brutal Nord chieftain of old, but instead has chosen the magnanimous path every single time.

 

Edit: I suppose Ulfric could have spared Tullius, but I doubt his men would have approved even IF he had been willing to.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Kraeten

[notmyhome]

Ulfric has had numerous chances to present himself as a brutal Nord chieftain of old, but instead has chosen the magnanimous path every single time.

 

 

Excep for the Incident at Markarth, or attacking Whiterun.

Actually, I haven't seen a single deed of Ulfric I'd call "magnanimous". They didn't even cut my bound hands!

 

On the other hand, I don't see Ulfric go on a rampage of conquest and plunder across Tamriel for the near future. Even if he wanted so (nothing in his dialogue hints at that), the Thalmor menace will keep him at bay for the time being.

[Lachdonin]

Ulfric has had numerous chances to present himself as a brutal Nord chieftain of old, but instead has chosen the magnanimous path every single time.

He killed Torygg in a barbaric duel that hasn't been used in centuries, the rules of which he violated, and is viewed as murder by a large chunk of the province. He attacks a neutral city because it won't join him. He used the Thu'um for his own ends in direct volation of his oaths and 3000 years of tradition. He executed Tullius on the spot instead of sending him home in disgrace.

 

Yeah, totally a magnanimous dude.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Lachdonin

[Kraeten]

He attacks a neutral city because it won't join him

 

A neutral city that happens to be sitting smack in the center of Skyrim. Strategically it's extremely valuable. To roll over for Balgruuf would have been extremely stupid and unrealistic for a would-be conqueror. I won't even bother with Torygg as that's before the game even begins and under questionable circumstances. As for Tullius, given that he would have executed Ulfric, Galmar and every other Stormcloak if he could it's easy to understand why Ulfric wouldn't let him live.

 

What was magnanimous was letting the Battleborns live, letting the owners of Warmaidens go unmolested despite having formerly equipped Imperial soldiers, sparing the conquered Jarls, not employing torture like the Imperials, and finally after everything he still gave Legate Rikke a chance to walk away.

 

 

Except for the Incident at Markarth

 

Besides one IMPERIAL scholar no one mentions his involvement with the atrocities of the Markarth Incident. You know who is mentioned? The Jarl of the city. Funny how one imperial scholar is so eager to paint him as a villain and Madanach himself can't be bothered to even mention his name even once.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Kraeten

[Lachdonin]

Torygg was not under remotely questionable circumstances. We know what happened by Stentor's eye eitness testimony, Ulfrics own words and those of Torygg. We also know the terms of Nord duels by tersimony of Tue Songs of the Return, the Seven Fights, KINMUNE etc. Ulfric used a forbidden power to murder a young man for his own ambition, there is no arguing around that.

 

Secondly, Whiterun was undecided and Neutral, bit did not in any way impede access to Imperial Holds. Moving against Falkreath would have been simple enough for the Stormcloaks to operate out of Ivarstead. Instead, Ulfric attacked a neutral city to make a point.

 

Third, of course Tullius would have killed him, it was his JOB. That fact in no way changes Ulfrics action, killing a man, again, to make a point.

 

And finally, Igmund places Ulfric in control of the city for an undetermined amount of time, corroborating the books testimony about an occupation. The simple fact that Igmund had to wait for Ulfric to come all the way from Windhelm instead of recapturing his OWN citie clearly indicates a laack of army on his own part, and thus he would have had to rely on Ulfric's to maintain order and execute the many hundreds, or more likely thousands, or Reachmen. A commander is culpable for the actions of the men under his command, which makes Ulfric, at the very least, complicit. Madanach never mentions the name of the Jarl who executed his people, though since those from other holds don't seem to refer to anyone but their own Narl by title, it's likely that Igmund's father gave the order. Still, therevis nothing to contradict the information in the Bear of Markarth, imperial author or no.

[GetTheJojDone]

 

Except, Ulfric wants to return to the days when the Nords were viscious raiders who took rather than built.

The days where they exterminated entire races, murdered and raped nations and engaged in their own internal warfare for no reason other than proving who was stronger.

 

Ulfric wants a future where Skyrim isn't beholden to a distant Empire that cares nothing for the provinces it rules. Beyond that, we can only speculate. If he does want Skyrim to become the grisly portrait you're painting, he's clearly going about it all wrong at the present. Ulfric has had numerous chances to present himself as a brutal Nord chieftain of old, but instead has chosen the magnanimous path every single time.

 

Edit: I suppose Ulfric could have spared Tullius, but I doubt his men would have approved even IF he had been willing to.

 

 

*Ulfric wants a future where he is High King. FTFY.

 

And if you think the Empire doesn't care about it's provinces, try having a chat with Legate Fasendil: "The Empire is the only thing keeping the Dominion from walking all over Skyrim. It matters little if some people here are ignorant of that truth, they are still citizens of the Empire and it is our solemn duty to protect them." The Empire is hardly distant either, or have you forgotten that the Empire's capital is closer to Riften than Solitude is?

 

And I wouldn't call Ulfric magnanimous. After all, he doesn't deny murdering a teenager who was standing between him and the crown of Skyrim (not to mention that he didn't even try to reason with him first despite him holding Ulfric in high esteem, and once he was dead, Ulfric insulted his grieving widow whenever he came into contact with her, like during Season Unending), and I've yet to see the atrocities he committed during the Markarth Incident disproven either. And when even the Jarls supporting him (Laila and Dengeir) don't trust him, there must be something wrong, right?

Edited August 24, 2014 by GetTheJojDone