Help, Laptop & ext.harddisk electric sparkle issue!

[mistressmiaura]

Many Thanks in advance for any help! And I´m sorry I´m not a native english speaker so terms of electrical gizmos are kind of vague to me! ( I hope I can explain the trouble correctly! Arrgh.. Just tought I might find knowlegeable folks here faster than trying to find an active forum on the matter in my language! ) For Finnish speakers: apua sopii antaa suomexi!:P

Here´s the problem from the beginning...

 

We live on a boat, where, when at dock, all electricity comes from ashore through a long cable reel with basic normally grounded extention cords attached to that reel. Between two extention cords leading to our old desktop CPU we have one simple(= one plug, max 3500W) surge protector.

Our desktop has allways worked fine with this system.

We have neither had any trouble when connecting little things like phone battery chargers that have their own adapter (??? is that what it is called? The black block connected to the plug of such devices as chargers, laptops.. :ermm: .)

But now: We bought us a laptop, and an external Lacie hard disk of 1TB.

At home/boat we wanted to first connect the new harddisk to our old desktop CPU. My husband tried to plug it´s cord to the extension cord our CPU uses... He did not yet push the plug to the bottom, when blueish sparks appeared! Nothing huge, but definete sparkling. Ok. tried with another extention cord, same thing. Then we went ashore to a building, and there: when connected straight to the wall,no sparkling, when trying to connect to any basic extention cord there, sparkling ensues!

We tought the hard disk was broken, went to the store, explained, and the guy plugged it into an"extention cord of sorts" wich was attached straight to his desk, no sparks, no refund...

THEN:We came home and tried to plug the LAPTOP into our extention cord: Sparks, like with the hard disk!! Tried with a different cord, sparks again... :sad:

Did not dare to push the plug all the way in of course. Now a friend who "knows stuff"/rumpages with computer parts a lot :tongue: just shrugged it off and told us to just push the plugs in, but no way do I dare do that! Or should I?

My(humble) conclusion: must have something to do with the laptop and hard disk being quite powerfull apparell wich have this adapter in their cord?

& If they can not be plugged straight to a wall, should they be connected only by an extention cord that has some major surge protector?

If so, what type of surge protector might that be? (Thats not too expensive either, 60- 100 Euros TOPS, the laptop really drained our funds..)

Because I tried searching for surge protectors on the pages of a local store,& I read the warranty notes on one, a Belkin surge protector wich seems to be a common brand...It says (my translation) quote:

"All Belkin surge protectors must be connected straight to the powersource and must not be chained with other powersources, UPS (?What´s that?), other surge protectors or extention cords."

Does it mean straight to a powersource as in straight to a wall?

And, if I do chain it after all, only to to our cable reel that leads to the powersource , I realise the warranty will not pay me anything if things go haywire, but does that also mean it will not work at all/be useless, or that it might be downright dangerous? Or, should it still work/protect my equipment , besides the warranty part of course?

A long rant, thanks for reading if you got this far! Hope it made any sense of the matter too!:smile:

[yeldarb]

The surge protector should be plugged into the wall socket by itself.You then plug your laptop into the surge protector.In your boat you want it connected directly to the extension cord from the dock. a UPS is a Universal Power Supply,an adapter used to plug an electric razor made for Italy into the wall socket of a home in Belgium. Any Surge Protector or Battery back up will have this warning because of the fire hazard posed by running too many appliances from a single outlet.Some blue small sparks is normal when you first plug in a device. You need to check for the cord that feeds the surge protector getting hot!

[_frost_]

Connect your electric equipment directly with the bekin-device.

The best order is this: electric equipment ("cpu") ==> bekin==> cable reel==> ashore powersource.

But say... are there still sparks if you plug or unplug electric equipment to/from the bekin-device?

Only your laptop and ext. hd cause sparks?

Sparks are caused by leakage current, overvoltage, wrong installed cables and there are a few other reasons but I have to see it myself to find out what it is.

Are all your electric cables and electrical connections ok?

If you're afraid of what could happen, then it's (and this is my advice and obviously) the best way to ask an electrician - a good one of course.

Is your "UPS" like "ups i did it again" or the device UPS?

I only know UPS as 'uninterruptible power supply' - a device to prevent power disruption or let me say an emergency power supply (in general powered by accumulator).

 

 

_frost_

 

P.S. very small sparks are ok apart of the fact that a few devices cause bigger sparks(very rare).

[mistressmiaura]

Thank you very much guys :happy: This helps! Ok..

Some blue small sparks is normal when you first plug in a device.

As the friend of ours said too then..Still feels scary to just try, as I never saw that happen before!

 

The surge protector should be plugged into the wall socket by itself.You then plug your laptop into the surge protector.In your boat you want it connected directly to the extension cord from the dock.

And

 

The best order is this: electric equipment ("cpu") ==> bekin==> cable reel==> ashore powersource.

Thankyou, good, understood now!

And if I buy a surge protector with multiple sockets, I can have both the laptop (or the old desktop with its screen etc.) and the Lacie Harddisk plugged straight to the surge protectors sockets, & use nothing but the protector plugged to the extension cord reel from the dock, now that sounds pretty safe right?

The extension cord from the dock itself has a fuse that should blow in case of a spike it can not handle.

But say... are there still sparks if you plug or unplug electric equipment to/from the bekin-device?

Only your laptop and ext. hd cause sparks?

Are all your electric cables and electrical connections ok?

Is you "UPS" like "ups i did it again" or the device UPS?

Oh, a misunderstanding, I have not yet bought the Belkin surge protector (for instance) , so far we have just the small one socket surge protector between our desktop cpu´s extension cord and the docks cable reel, as the desktop needs an extension cord for the multiple sockets.

-So,the socket we tried plugging the HD & laptop in was of that basic extension cord, grounded but not surge protected in itself. But, like said, we have not actually plugged them all the way in because of the sparks, so no actual unpluggin either!

 

-Yeap, only the laptop and ext.hd cause sparks.

 

.-All the cables and connections on the boat should be ok. And because, like I said we also tried to plug the hard disk to another persons extention cord in a house ashore & it still sparkled, I don´t think the problem can be with our electricity.

 

-UPS= as in device :happy: Just asking cause I did not understand what it was.

 

The sparkling happening elsewhere too makes me think what Yeldarb and our friend said about normal blue sparks even might be it( knocks on wood)... But I guess we´ll buy a good surge protector first anyway and connect it like you guys said! Thanks again!

 

PS. I learned a new word, "socket!" Was really trying to remember that one when I first wrote! :thumbsup:

[bben46]

UPS = Uninterruptable Power Supply. Also known as an inverter. A box with batteries to allow running AC current devices when the AC power fails. There is an electronic circuit inside that converts the DC from the batteries to AC for use by the AC device. They are widely used on computers and other critical electronics to give you a little more run time during a power failure.

 

Here is a web site with a good explanation as well as pictures. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply

 

Normally you would plug the UPS into the wall outlet, and then plug the computer into an outlet on the UPS.

 

They also make very good filters to stop spikes (very short time high voltage usually caused by some high power device being switched on or off), and line droops (temporary low voltage. like when you see the lights dim and then brighten back up - often caused by nearby motors or compressors starting)

[mistressmiaura]

UPS = Uninterruptable Power Supply. Also known as an inverter. Ag)

"

Aaahh, thanks very much! Now I think I actually know/realise what that is! The english "USP" for short was strange, but I think I too know it as the "inverter", we use such a device when we are at sea or docked with no electricity available, but want to use delicate electrical equipment like a computer drawing power from the main battery of our boat. thanks... :thumbsup:

Currently actually doing that, being at sea, so I can / will not test our new laptop or HD mentioned in the prime question again before we are ashore & and buy a new surge protector,( cause I, the Wife, say to buy one !) but anyone with advice or info of course feel free to give it!

[bben46]

Why can't you run the laptop off of the inverter all of the time, and use shore power to top off the batteries when in port? The large battery bank and charging circuit attached to the inverter will make an excellent surge protector. Probably much better than any you can readily buy as it can absorb much longer duration high voltage spikes as well as keep the output voltage up during periods of low line voltage. You are probably already doing this with some of your equipment that must be kept on, such as running or standing lights. My guess is there is a switch somewhere that changes your outlets from inverter to shore power. And at least one or more outlets that are not switched but are always on the inverter.

 

It is not uncommon for a plug to arc a little when first plugged in. Be sure the power brick is the proper line voltage for your power - US is 120 VAC single phase and 60Hz. Europe is 220 VAC, 2 phase and 50 HZ. Parts of Japan are 100 VAC single phase 50Hz. Most of Japan is 110 VAC 60 Hz. Some places are 220 VAC 2 phase 60 HZ. (from an engineering standpoint this is the best way, although it is the least used) So be sure that you can use whatever they have.

 

If it bothers you, unplug the laptop end of the power brick, then plug the brick into the outlet. Most laptop power bricks have a small led light that shows they are working. If that light comes on and stays on it is OK. Then plug the cord from the brick into the laptop. The brick has the power circuitry for the laptop and acts just like the charging circuit for your boat's inverter to charge the laptop batteries. The laptop actually is using the batteries all of the time and uses the line power to keep them charged when plugged in.

[nosisab]

UPS = Uninterruptable Power Supply. Also known as an inverter. Ag)

"

Aaahh, thanks very much! Now I think I actually know/realise what that is! The english "USP" for short was strange, but I think I too know it as the "inverter", we use such a device when we are at sea or docked with no electricity available, but want to use delicate electrical equipment like a computer drawing power from the main battery of our boat. thanks... :thumbsup:

Currently actually doing that, being at sea, so I can / will not test our new laptop or HD mentioned in the prime question again before we are ashore & and buy a new surge protector,( cause I, the Wife, say to buy one !) but anyone with advice or info of course feel free to give it!

Assuming the energy source is properly grounded and the sparks are instant (as in not continuous) it seems to be static electricity at the devices themselves. Otherwise is the grounding on the boat what is incorrect or just missing (please notice the existence of a grounding pin is not the same as it being actually grounded).

 

Sorry I can't be more helpful about grounding under these circumstances and the advice is calling local specialized technicians if it's the case. Anyway almost all modern devices have protections and works fine even when the phases are inverted (and since they are insulated and haven't metallic carcass subject to hazard shocking to people it is fine to use as it is).

 

Just make sure the outlet voltage is the specified (expected) and if so you can plug the device without fear. As experience try approaching the devices to any large metallic surface and that same spark may appear, characterizing the static electricity is on the devices themselves and harmless. The reasons to this are several, may be just transmitted from yourselves by walking on wooden or carpeted floor, for example.

 

PS: forgot to mention the spark suggest the grounding actually is fine and the reason for it is in the own environmental condition on the boat (for the static), because it does not happens outside.

 

PS 2: For the reasons above, actually once the devices are connected and so properly grounded they will be in fact more protected against that static than unplugged.... besides the phenomenon could pass to yourselves being the ones sparkling :smile: yes, it may happen.

[yeldarb]

You have my apologies for misleading you on what UPS actually meant.

[nosisab]

You have my apologies for misleading you on what UPS actually meant.

Still you may be right when called it UPS :thumbsup: it's just logical to have at least one on a boat case the main generator fails in an emergency. Besides it allows for usage when the engines are resting and the boat not docked and plugged on shore lines.