What is the "true" number of mods you can use?

[xGunner1]

I'm approaching 300 esps, and I'm already experiencing what I have feared the worst. My game automatically exists on me after a few minutes. It's different from a CTD where I usually get an error message and all that crap, but what I'm getting instead is that the game just shuts down in a split second. After testing through trial and error, I realized that this problem is not due to a mod conflict but is related to the number of mods I activate. My limit is around 250 including the esps merged in the bash patch. Now my question is that is there anyway I can hold more mods? I hear rumors about people approaching 400, hell even 600 esp plugins and still run a stable game! What can I do to hold more mods like those guys?

[ziitch]

Merge, merge, merge, and merge. Biggest portion of this is that you're best off merging simple mods, like weapon and armor addons into specific categories, like by author or location. Pose mods are tricky - since most use the Actors in Charge design, they tend not to change up the name of the script so it isn't very merge-friendly with other AIC pose mods.

 

Do you have Wrye Bash? This has a nice little feature called "Auto-Ghost" that merely changes the .esp's extension but is still on the mod list, but won't be passively read by Oblivion, which tends to cause a lot of problems.

[xGunner1]

Merge, merge, merge, and merge. Biggest portion of this is that you're best off merging simple mods, like weapon and armor addons into specific categories, like by author or location. Pose mods are tricky - since most use the Actors in Charge design, they tend not to change up the name of the script so it isn't very merge-friendly with other AIC pose mods.

 

Do you have Wrye Bash? This has a nice little feature called "Auto-Ghost" that merely changes the .esp's extension but is still on the mod list, but won't be passively read by Oblivion, which tends to cause a lot of problems.

 

Yes I even tried auto ghost and still get the same problem unfortunately. Also I would like to ask if the number of mods is also related to how high end you PC is? My computer is pretty low when it comes to gaming performance and I'm about to give it a huge upgrade really soon. Will this improve my computer performance when it comes to holding a high number of mods?

[LFact]

The actual limit is 254, excluding Oblivion.esm.(FormID 00- is for Oblivion.esm, and FF- is reserved for anything generated in-game) Anyway, are you sure it's not mod conflict? Posting load order may be helpful.

 

**Of course, there are other limitation. If the files(.esp/.esm/.bsa) in \Data reaches around 350~400, the game can show some weird things or crashes.(Normally inactive mods should not be read by the game, but somehow the game recognize them)

[xGunner1]

The actual limit is 254, excluding Oblivion.esm.(FormID 00- is for Oblivion.esm, and FF- is reserved for anything generated in-game) Anyway, are you sure it's not mod conflict? Posting load order may be helpful.

 

I'm absolutely positive this isn't due to a mod conflict. I've been working out this problem for the past few hours and I can confidently confirm that it's due to the number of mods I can hold. But here's my load order, tips about what mods I should merge would be most grateful.

 

00  Oblivion.esm
01  TR_OoT_Main.esm
02  Beautiful People 2ch-Ed.esm
03  Jog_X_Mod.esm
04  ScreenEffects.esm
05  You Are Here.esm
06  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 01]
07  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
08  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
09  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 01]
0A  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 01]
0B  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 01]
0C  CyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esm
0D  TamrielTravellers.esm
0E  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 01]
0F  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 01]
10  Better Cities Resources.esm
11  CURP_Controller.esm
12  TantrivayliaChimer.esm
13  HorseCombatMaster.esm
++  HrmnsOblivionScriptOptimizationv1.0.esp
14  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
15  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp
16  DLCShiveringIsles.esp
17  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
18  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 01]
19  Better Cities .esp
1A  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
1B  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
1C  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
1D  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 01]
++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 01]
1E  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 01]
1F  Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp
++  LoadingScreens.esp
20  LoadingScreensAddOn.esp
21  LoadingScreensSI.esp
22  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
23  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 01]
24  All Natural.esp  [Version 01]
25  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 01]
26  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp
27  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp  [Version 01]
++  Symphony of Violence.esp
28  Atmospheric Oblivion.esp
29  Soundscaper.esp
2A  Storms & Sound.esp
2B  IlluminationWithin.esp
2C  IWR-Windows.esp
2D  WindowLightingSystem.esp
2E  AliveWaters.esp
2F  AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp
30  AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp
31  Ayleid Coin Add-on.esp
32  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
33  CharGenAmulet.esp
34  ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp
++  CM_Better Wine.esp
++  Cyrodilic Brandy.esp
35  Inebriation.esp
36  Immersive Combat Music.esp  [Version 01]
37  New Potions.esp
38  personality_idles4.esp
++  VA_BetterGold.esp
39  wd purse of wonders.esp
3A  Willful Resistance.esp  [Version 01]
3B  Xero's Fame Indicator.esp
3C  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 01]
3D  moDem's City Life.esp
3E  Landmarks, w Wells.esp  [Version 01]
3F  Guild Map Markers.esp
40  Hov's Hotkeys.esp
41  DLCHorseArmor.esp
42  Book Jackets DLC.esp
++  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp
++  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer.esp
43  Assassin_Blade.esp
44  c_dagcol.esp
++  CSR - Fine Iron.esp
++  CSR - Golden Saint.esp
45  DBShadowSet.esp
46  DarkAdventuressBow.esp
47  DesuChan's Stealth Gear Complete.esp
48  EY_BM_Armory.esp
49  Hiyoko_Store.esp
4A  KatanasMod.esp
4B  Kill_Bill_Katanas.esp
4C  Ryk_SorceressArmor.esp
4D  VA_UniqueKatana1.esp
4E  White Monk Robes with Hoods by Cass v1.0.esp
4F  Thieves Arsenal.esp
++  Thieves_Arsenal_Patch_033010.esp
50  ArynnsDrowWitchHGEC.esp
51  Slof's Horses Base.esp
52  Slof's Extra Horses.esp
53  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 01]
54  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 01]
55  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
56  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 01]
57  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp
++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 01]
58  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
59  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 01]
5A  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
5B  OOO-Ayleid Coin Add-on.esp
++  ArmamentariumLL.esp  [Version 01]
++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 01]
5C  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 01]
++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 01]
5D  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 01]
5E  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp
5F  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp
60  TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp
++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 01]
++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 01]
++  PersuasionOverhaul_OOO.esp  [Version 01]
++  PersuasionOverhaul_MMM.esp  [Version 01]
++  FineWeapons for OOO.esp
61  LoadingScreens-OOO.esp
62  RustyItems for OOO.esp
63  AkaviriSamuraiShop.esp
64  BeldaElysium.esp
65  BladeSong.esp
66  BrotherhoodRenewed.esp  [Version 01]
67  Cannibalism.esp
68  DBSRebuiltComplete.esp
69  Delivery Job - BC.esp
6A  KvatchRising.esp
6B  LetThePeopleDrink.esp  [Version 01]
6C  LordKain_Adash_World.esp
6D  Necromancer Shop.esp
6E  Nascosto Isles 3.esp
6F  Reaper's Coldstone Town.esp
70  Region Revive - Lake Rumare.esp
71  Romuska Fantasy Store.esp
72  ScarletMonastery.esp
73  Scribe Supplies.esp
74  ShadowfangKeep.esp
75  Tantrivaylia.esp
76  thievery.esp
77  thievery - EE patch.esp  [Version 01]
78  TR_Stirk.esp
79  Stirk_Compatibility_Patch.esp
7A  VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp
7B  Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp
7C  Apachii_Heroes_Store.esp
7D  za_bankmod.esp
7E  24HrArenaAliveV2.esp
7F  Knights.esp
80  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 01]
81  EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp
++  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 01]
82  AFK_Weye.esp  [Version 2.0.COBL]
83  Rumare-AFK_Weye Patch.esp  [Version 2.0]
84  TheNecromancer.esp
85  HoarfrostCastle.esp
86  LanternMonastery.esp
87  FiveLanterns-HoarfrostCastle patch.esp
88  Shadowcrest_Vineyard_COBL.esp
89  Shadowcrest_Vineyard_GuardCOBL.esp
8A  Hammerfell_HighRock.esp
8B  Blackmarsh.esp
8C  Valenwood.esp
8D  Summerset.esp
8E  ElsweyrAnequina.esp
8F  Reaper's Esmeralda's Desert Manor.esp
90  Valenwood_Anequina_Patch.esp
91  Faregyl.esp  [Version 01]
92  Faregyl+Anequina Patch.esp
93  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 01]
94  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 01]
95  FiveLanterns-StendarrValley patch.esp
96  xulTheHeath.esp
97  XulEntiusGorge.esp
98  TheNecromancer-EntiusGorge patch.esp
99  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp
9A  Anequina-Fallenleaf-Patch.esp
9B  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 01]
9C  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 01]
9D  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 01]
9E  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp
9F  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 01]
A0  HoarfrostCastle-LushWoodlands patch.esp
A1  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 01]
A2  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 01]
A3  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 01]
A4  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 01]
A5  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 01]
A6  xulRollingHills_EV_withoutWheat.esp  [Version 01]
A7  BeldaElysium-RollingHills patch.esp
A8  xulPantherRiver.esp
A9  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 01]
AA  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 01]
AB  xulImperialIsle.esp
AC  xulBlackwoodForest.esp
AD  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 01]
AE  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 01]
AF  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp
B0  bartholm.esp
B1  Bartholm-Panther River Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]
B2  RegionReviveLakeRumare-ImperialIsle patch.esp  [Version 1.3.3]
B3  RR - LTPDPatch.esp
B4  JQ-Fighters_Guild_United.esp
++  FCOM_FighterGUnited.esp
B5  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]
++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]
B6  Banes Diverse Guards.esp
B7  Cliff_BetterLetters.esp  [Version 01]
B8  EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp
B9  ImmersiveHealthIndication.esp
BA  P1DKeyChainSI Merged.esp
BB  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 01]
++  Short Grass V3.esp
BC  Storms & Sound - AFK_Weye.esp
BD  Storms & Sound - Bank of Cyrodiil.esp
BE  Storms & Sound - Better Cities.esp
BF  Quest Award Leveling SI.esp
C0  Quest Award Leveller.esp
++  Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp
C1  Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp
C2  RealisticForceMedium.esp
C3  RealisticMagicForceMedium.esp
C4  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 01]
C5  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 01]
++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 01]
++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 01]
++  SM_COBL.esp
++  SM_EnableCharmChameleon.esp
C6  SM_NoPoisonLevitationEffects.esp
C7  SM_EnchantStaff.esp
++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 01]
C8  MidasSpells.esp
C9  Midas OscuroGems.esp
CA  StealthOverhaul.esp
CB  DD_ProximitySneakPenalty.esp
CC  SM Bounty.esp  [Version 01]
CD  CoblDeathFix.esp  [Version 01]
CE  No psychic guards v1.2.esp
CF  RenGuardOverhaul.esp
D0  sycHearNoEvil.esp  [Version 01]
D1  Enhanced_Hand_to_hand-2329.esp
D2  Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed block and 150% damage.esp
D3  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp
++  SM_DeadlyReflex.esp  [Version 01]
D4  Duke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now.esp
D5  Oblivion XP.esp
D6  Legendary Abilities-Reflect MOJ.esp
++  DMC Stylish - Specialanims.esp
D7  Let There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.esp
D8  Let There Be Darkness - Knights.esp
++  EVE_KhajiitFix.esp
++  Better Looking Redguards-Mergeable.esp
D9  Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Vanilla Race.esp
DA  Ahtata_Khabaxi.esp
DB  Ahtata Arquamer spike4hair.esp
DC  ahtata Ork.esp
DD  X.Races.Comp.esp
DE  CreeperJones.esp
DF  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 01]
E0  KT_CustomRaceFix.esp
E1  boethia custom race.esp
E2  Better Cities - Full City Defences.esp
E3  Better Cities Full.esp
E4  BCBravilFULL-Barrowfields patch.esp
E5  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp
E6  BCChorrol-ChorrolHinterland fix.esp
E7  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp
E8  BCCheydinhalFULL-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp
E9  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp
EA  BCSkingrad-SkingradOutskirts patch.esp
EB  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp
EC  Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp
ED  Better Imperial City.esp
EE  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 01]
EF  Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp
F0  MM_NoMoreAnnoyingMessages.esp  [Version 01]
F1  Chameleon-NoRefraction-2411.esp
++  LifeDetect Shader.esp
F2  Get Wet.esp
F3  ScreenControls.esp
++  Visually Realistic Lava.esp
F4  Bashed Patch, 0.esp
F5  Duke Patricks - Combat Archery.esp  [Version 01]
F6  Streamline 3.1.esp
F7  Katana Store.esp
F8  Concealing_Hoods.esp
F9  DBAssassin.esp

[Tomlong54210]

I have not heard of sudden CTD-ing being characteristic of reaching that limit. I have not seed evidence of the limit being related to hardware at all, either. No one is running 400 plugins and 600 plugins stably, for reasons that LFact has already pointed out. Also, the variable cap is based on total number of BSAs and plugins, not just plugins. It would be nice to see version numbers... What version of FCOM, MMM and OOO are you using?

 

This does sound like a mod conflict issue.

 

++ HrmnsOblivionScriptOptimizationv1.0.esp <-- buggy, useless, remove it

 

Symptoms of the too many plugins and BSA bugs are random missing meshes, textures and normal maps.

[xGunner1]

I have not heard of sudden CTD-ing being characteristic of reaching that limit. I have not seed evidence of the limit being related to hardware at all, either. No one is running 400 plugins and 600 plugins stably, for reasons that LFact has already pointed out. Also, the variable cap is based on total number of BSAs and plugins, not just plugins. It would be nice to see version numbers... What version of FCOM, MMM and OOO are you using?

 

This does sound like a mod conflict issue.

 

++ HrmnsOblivionScriptOptimizationv1.0.esp <-- buggy, useless, remove it

 

Symptoms of the too many plugins and BSA bugs are random missing meshes, textures and normal maps.

 

 

I just recently installed FCOM a week and a half ago on my freshly installed oblivion game after not playing for 6 months using this thread as my guide:

 

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1102058-relz-fcom-convergence-and-ufcom/page__hl__FCOM

 

The versions I'm using are:

FCOM 9.9 with installed UFCOM files

MMM 3.7b3

OOO 1.34 beta 5

 

I have a backed up Oblivion folder that only uses FCOM and other overhaul mods just in case for any screwups that may have happen or for testing. The backed up version is stable and does not have the same problems that I am experiencing now in my main Oblivion folder that I'm currently using.

 

Anyway more information about the CTD I'm experiencing. It seems that particular CTD only happens in the Arena Bloodworks when I try to leave the Arena Bloodworks. Found this out by starting a new game and haven't been getting any CTDs until I go to the Arena Bloodworks. This CTD may occur in other areas but as of now I know that the Arena Bloodworks is suspect when it comes to CTDs. More than anything else, I wanna try merging esp plugins and see if this works, but unfortunately I am very new to this method and don't know which plugins to merge. Really appreciate it for any suggestions

[Tomlong54210]

If you are using auto-ghosting, you are probably not at the limit. You have not described any symptoms of it anyway. Since your bug is specific, I would post in the FCOM thread on the BethSoft forum. You are right about it not being uncommon for people to find CTD issues there.

 

Plugin Merging - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/index.php?page=plugin_merging <-- See the RR section for more information.

 

 

Edit: Just to make sure you do not miss this detail, merging mods with overlapping cell/worldspace edits is risky. Try as much as you can to avoid doing that. That should be fine for you since you do not have too many plugins yet. That's a good thing.

[xGunner1]

You were absolutely right, this is indeed a mod conflict. I was thinking too small, I thought it was just one mod out of my list was causing the CTD. No, it turns out there were three. Through trial and error I have discovered that there were three mods(four plugins in total) were causing these CTDs... unfortunately these mods are also my most anticipated mods to play. Anyway here are the mods that caused me the CTDs:

 

Reaper's Coldstone Town.esp: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29808

 

Reaper's Esmeralda's Desert Manor.esp: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29808

 

BeldaElysium.esp and BeldaElysium-RollingHills patch.esp: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=1500

 

Anytime I activate one of the above mods, I would get the CTD problem. I would love to play these mods, but until I find a solution I cannot. If anyone can make a guess or know why these caused me such problems, please tell me so I may avoid this problem in the future

[Tomlong54210]

You were absolutely right, this is indeed a mod conflict. I was thinking too small, I thought it was just one mod out of my list was causing the CTD. No, it turns out there were three. Through trial and error I have discovered that there were three mods(four plugins in total) were causing these CTDs... unfortunately these mods are also my most anticipated mods to play. Anyway here are the mods that caused me the CTDs:

 

Reaper's Coldstone Town.esp: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29808

 

Reaper's Esmeralda's Desert Manor.esp: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29808

 

BeldaElysium.esp and BeldaElysium-RollingHills patch.esp: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=1500

 

Anytime I activate one of the above mods, I would get the CTD problem. I would love to play these mods, but until I find a solution I cannot. If anyone can make a guess or know why these caused me such problems, please tell me so I may avoid this problem in the future

Load up your load order and those four plugins in TES4View, and quickly browse through them to see which mods they have conflicts with. Definitely look to see which mods modify the same cells in the Tamriel worldspace (WORLD.) If you can isolate a few mods, you may be able to post in those mods' threads for information about patches or simply to report the conflict.