DavidBudreck Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I was going to try a mod that I had used once before ICEXPANDwaterfront. When I activate it and attempt to launch a new game I get the Quick load crash. Oblivion starts, the main loading screen comes up for a second or two, then quits. This is exactly like a missing Master file. Wrye Bash does not detect any errors.The CS Loads it just fine, which it would not do if there was a missing Master. There are NO errors when opening in the CS. Neither Wrye Bash, TES4edit, or TES4gecko can see any references to a Master file. Load order does not matter; it crashes when loaded first, even before the UOP, and crashes when loaded last. It behaves exactly the same way regardless of where it is in the Load Order. The author has blocked endorsements from the file, so I cannot check whether anybody else has experienced the same problem, but I presume not since it has worked for me in the past. What else could cause a quick crash like that? EDIT:I also encounter exactly the same error when I try to use ICEXPAND (not waterfront). This one I have NEVER gotten to work. I had tried this at the same time I tried the other a long time ago, but it had crashed then and crashes not. Today's attempt was with a fresh download, so I'm fairly confident nothing is corrupt. Again, there is no reference to a Master found by any program, and I can open it in the CS with NO errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hickory Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 It appears that you are assuming the crash is due to a master file -- it is much more likely to be a conflict with this mod and something else you have installed. Remember that the ICExpand mods alter interior and exterior cells. The CS will not detect conflicts unless the conflicting mods are loaded in the same session. Same goes for utils like Tes4Gecko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBudreck Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 No, not assuming it's a Master; just trying to eliminate possibilities because it ACTS like a missing Master. The author has not blocked comments from the main ICEXPAND mod, and there are tons of bug reports there. However, nothing like what I am experiencing. I had thought it was a conflict, possibly with OOO, since that was mentioned several times in the comments, but I would think that changing the load order would solve that. If I load it before or after OOO, same crash, before or after everything, same crash. Hmmmmm. Is it possible this mod is conflicting with the OOO.esm? I don't think I've ever tried it without OOO.esm--or that it would even be physically possible without doing a complete reinstall. The author, unfortunately, suddenly stopped supporting the mod for whatever reason, which is wierd because he had been very active and supportive up until that point. Something else must have entered his life... I don't even know what type of error I am looking for. What else besides a missing master could cause a (very) Quick CTD while loading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hickory Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Sorry, you have not convinced me that it's a master -- just saying that it is doesn't make it so. And then you admit you don't even know what type of error you are looking for. There IS a conflict. Think about things: you can run Oblivion without this mod. You install it, and BAM! Crash happens. That's a conflict! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBudreck Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 I'm sorry; I obviously have not been clear. I KNOW that it is NOT a missing Master. It just Behaves the same way as a missing Master would behave. I KNOW there is a conflict, but I do not know what else BESIDES a missing master can cause this type of Quick CTD. What else BESIDES a missing Master could cause the type of error that I am getting? Conflicts would, I had thought, be resolved by changing the load order. So what type of conflict is NOT resolved by changing Load Order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hickory Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I'm sorry; I obviously have not been clear. I KNOW that it is NOT a missing Master. It just Behaves the same way as a missing Master would behave. I KNOW there is a conflict, but I do not know what else BESIDES a missing master can cause this type of Quick CTD. What else BESIDES a missing Master could cause the type of error that I am getting? Conflicts would, I had thought, be resolved by changing the load order. So what type of conflict is NOT resolved by changing Load Order? Ok, then perhaps I misunderstood you. The thing is, it is very difficult to diagnose a conflict, particularly when it is on somebody else's system -- it's sometimes difficult enough on your own. It could be something along the lines of duplicate FormIDs, although this normally would result in one overriding another, I have seen one particular mod where this resulted in ALL of the objects not turning up in game at all. It could be a script; it could even be a faulty mesh (I have seen this). Even some ini settings can cause a CTD. Take a look at Bbens Crash Help and see if there is any help there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomlong54210 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Did you try cleaning with TES4Edit? I do not see how this mod would cause the Oblivion to crash before you even try to load a game. If it has data files, does the game crash while the mod is installed but deactivated? Does it have an extra OBSE or Pluggy requirement or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBudreck Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 To clarify, since I mentioned and have actually tried two different mods, I am now referring to ICEXPANDwaterfront, not the other ICEXPAND. To answer Tomlong54210, yes I have looked at it with TES4edit, and no it does not require OBSE or Plyggy (both of which I have installed anyway). The author was very careful and actually took things farther than most by documenting Exactly what he changed in vanilla Oblivion (not much), plus the cells and NPC's he added, etc., very thorough and very nice. (He had also been very active an supportive until he vanished). If I have to take a stab in the dark, which apparently I do, it is probably some AI Package. That seems to be the culprit with his other mod ICEXPAND described in the comments by other users. There is a documented fix, but the author vanished before implementing it in a release. I guess I'll try that fix and see if I can get ICEXPAND to work first, then if that works will probably trash the waterfront expansion because it is probably way more trouble than it is worth. Does it sound reasonable than an AI Package could whack the game within a few seconds of trying to load? (Regardless of where it is in the load order?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hickory Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 To clarify, since I mentioned and have actually tried two different mods, I am now referring to ICEXPANDwaterfront, not the other ICEXPAND. To answer Tomlong54210, yes I have looked at it with TES4edit, and no it does not require OBSE or Plyggy (both of which I have installed anyway). The author was very careful and actually took things farther than most by documenting Exactly what he changed in vanilla Oblivion (not much), plus the cells and NPC's he added, etc., very thorough and very nice. (He had also been very active an supportive until he vanished). If I have to take a stab in the dark, which apparently I do, it is probably some AI Package. That seems to be the culprit with his other mod ICEXPAND described in the comments by other users. There is a documented fix, but the author vanished before implementing it in a release. I guess I'll try that fix and see if I can get ICEXPAND to work first, then if that works will probably trash the waterfront expansion because it is probably way more trouble than it is worth. Does it sound reasonable than an AI Package could whack the game within a few seconds of trying to load? (Regardless of where it is in the load order?) I suppose it's possible -- anything is with Oblivion -- though the AI package would have to be seriously borked. Normally, anything that can be overridden by following mods normally won't cause a CTD. Some exceptions to this would be initialisation routines/files that have wrong paths/values, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomlong54210 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 To clarify, since I mentioned and have actually tried two different mods, I am now referring to ICEXPANDwaterfront, not the other ICEXPAND. To answer Tomlong54210, yes I have looked at it with TES4edit, and no it does not require OBSE or Plyggy (both of which I have installed anyway). The author was very careful and actually took things farther than most by documenting Exactly what he changed in vanilla Oblivion (not much), plus the cells and NPC's he added, etc., very thorough and very nice. (He had also been very active an supportive until he vanished). If I have to take a stab in the dark, which apparently I do, it is probably some AI Package. That seems to be the culprit with his other mod ICEXPAND described in the comments by other users. There is a documented fix, but the author vanished before implementing it in a release. I guess I'll try that fix and see if I can get ICEXPAND to work first, then if that works will probably trash the waterfront expansion because it is probably way more trouble than it is worth. Does it sound reasonable than an AI Package could whack the game within a few seconds of trying to load? (Regardless of where it is in the load order?)Do you have enough time to open the console and use the TAI command? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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