Skyrim Lore hunt - ME -300 to 1E 50

[Robinsage]

Just some fun lore building :smile:

 

So I want to go back about 4,500 years from modern Skyrim and have been pouring over as much lore from this period as I can find. Of course this leads to more questions so any help or added content would be appreciated:

 

How long did Ysgramor live?

Was his death before of after the Battle of the Moesring? I assume he was pretty old since he was involved with the original construction of Saarthal, survived the Night of Tears, fled to Atmora and began The Return, rebuilt Saarthal, and scoured Skyrim of Mer. And he oversaw construction of Windhelm to completion. The remaining companions who mourned his death were still alive so I'm assuming his life was a relatively 'normal' span (100 years +/-).

 

Did the early Nords refer to themselves as Atmorans?

 

What was Skyrim's climate then?

I'm assuming (slightly) warmer since Atmora was 'freezing' during the Return and 'frozen and uninhabitable' by 1E 68 (ship of corpses), a period of a few hundred years. Since it was growing colder in the North it would have had to come from a period of (relatively) warmer temps.

 

Where did the Snow Elves who refused the Dwemer deal go?

Lore says they were scattered, killed and went into hiding. Some went to the Chantry but there has to be more. Pure speculation here but wouldn't the frozen wastes of Atmora be a viable option? The elves knew men were fleeing from there and are very cold resistant.

 

Where are the SE ruins?

The Snow Elves had a great civilization up until this time. Aside from the Chantry there are few if any ruins that I know of, although they would be ancient even in this period (5k-10k+ years before Saarthal).

 

Where are the other ships from the Return?

There were eight in total and Atmoran woodcrafts last forever. Captain Jeek and crew carried the Jorrvaskr to the Skyforge area, and many other ships went on to explore the Nedic coasts, but what of the other ships and crews that went inland?

 

When were crossbows first made?

Dwemer vanish around 1E 700. They are spreading construction from the East into Skyrim around 1E 420. So are crossbows a late development of this time or were they around long before this?

 

Was Winterhold 'created'?

It was one of the first human settlements and is rumored to have been 'made' (not built) by Shalidor. Any insight or added material on this?

[Boombro]

Skyrim's climate seems to have always been cold, maybe a bit warmer way back, but there was still snow.

 

No on really knows when crossbows were first made.

 

Winterhold creation is said be made by the first arch mage using a spell, Shalidor (mad skillz) It can be a myth because there always crazy stuff about him like fighting an army of Dwemer alone.

[Lachdonin]

As far as the Snow Elves... Some ran to Solsthiem, where they fought one last battle with the Nords before bbeing wiped out. This is from the legend of the Snow Prince, and was first found in Morrowind's expansion, Bloodmoon.

 

There is a group of people around, however (myself included) who heleive that this wasn't a last stand, but rather a holding action as the rest of the Falmer took to the sea. They fled east, and would become the Kamal, 'Snow Demons' of Akavir.

 

As for their ruins... By and large, they were obliterated. The early Atmorans and their Giant kin went all Mongol hordes on the Falmer civilization, destroying it so utterly that by the 3rd Era the Snow Elves were nothing but a fairytale.

[Robinsage]

Interesting stuff!

 

I've also been looking for depictions of ancient banners, not much out there.

Racial symbols of Atmorans I imagine would be dragons. Nothing on Falmer symbology.

[Lachdonin]

The animal totems you see in the tombs are good indications of Atmoran symbols and iconography. When they came to Tamriel, they primarily worshipped 8 animal totems, and Shor. Shortly after their arrival, this transitioned into the worship of their traditional pantheon, the description of which is around here somewhere.

 

As for the Falmer... Based on what we see in the Chantry of Auri'el, they were very Aldmeri. Slender archways, clean stonework, realistic statuary. The archway in particular is important, as you see the same shape on the statue of Auri'el, in the way it's holding up the sun. It's a symbol of escape for the Altmer, a way to leave Mundus and return to their former godhood.

[Dohkaviin]

You shouldnt always believe what bjorlam the carriage driver says. He barely knows his grandparents.

 

Nords are alwayz nords even back then

 

I assume skyrim was warmer than what we thought way back. The distant green summers thingy hints at it.

 

I doubt winterhold was created. Itd be more plausible to assume that shalidor summoned thralls and made them build the once great city. So, technically, it started by magical means

 

The SE that didnt join at the first evacuation probably did so in later years. Also, the last SE in DG DLC hinted that he MIGHT not be the last.

 

The atmoran longboats may have lasted forever above land as evidenced by jorrvaskr,I doubt theyd last long under the ocean and were probably left at the ports. Not all nords have a mead hall in mind exactly.

 

Crossbows are surely dwemer creations. Probably ballistas, turrets, and other awesome stuff.

[VolkiharFiend]

Skyrim's climate seems to have always been cold, maybe a bit warmer way back, but there was still snow.

 

No on really knows when crossbows were first made.

 

Winterhold creation is said be made by the first arch mage using a spell, Shalidor (mad skillz) It can be a myth because there always crazy stuff about him like fighting an army of Dwemer alone.

Also he is said to have stolen the secret of life from Akatosh...

[Lachdonin]

You shouldnt always believe what bjorlam the carriage driver says. He barely knows his grandparents.

 

Nords are alwayz nords even back then

 

 

Nope, Ysgramor refers to his people as Atmorans, not Nords. Other titles include the Sons of Shor, The Wanderers, Heralds of the North, Giant-kin... But not Nords.

 

 

I assume skyrim was warmer than what we thought way back. The distant green summers thingy hints at it.

 

 

Distant green summers mean nothing. They are SUMMER, for one, and are based on a myth with no actual supporting evidence. We know Skyrim was cold under the reign of the Snow Elves, which pre-dates Atmoran settlement. There is no impending ice age, Skyrim is not getting colder, and the Companions are not reliable sources of historical information.

 

 

I doubt winterhold was created. Itd be more plausible to assume that shalidor summoned thralls and made them build the once great city. So, technically, it started by magical means

 

 

And why not? The Dunmer grew cities out of plants. All the Towers were constructed through magical means. Shalidor constructed all of Labrynthian on his own. The most powerful mage in history building a town (that would eventually grow into a city) using magic isn't a stretch, not by a long shot.

 

 

Crossbows are surely dwemer creations. Probably ballistas, turrets, and other awesome stuff.

 

This i will agree with. The Dwemer were the first race to use any sort of heavy armour, and Crossbows are designed largely around countering armour (and ease of use). Because of the infighting in the Western Dwemer Holds, it stands to reason that they would design weapons to use against their own superior armour.

 

Alternatively, though, Crossbows could be a Nordic or Chimeri weapon adopted by the Dwemer. These two peoples, during the First Era (and the Merethic, as far as the Chimer go) were traditionally the most common enemies of the Dwemer, and it would also stand to reason that they would design weapons to counter the heavier armour of the Dwemer.

 

So, the origins of the Crossbow can likely be traced to either the Dwemer, the Chimer, or the Nords. The more i think about it, the more i lean Chimer... They were extremely common in Morrowind towards the end of the 3rd Era, the Chimer were known for being rather progressive (at least in ways to kill people) and their Daedric alignment made them far less tradition prone than the other races of Tamriel.

 

 

As for Ysgramor's life... We know the Atmorans settled northern Skyrim sometime around ME1000. The Night of Tears happened relatively soon after, with at least enough time for the Falmer to realise A; how fast humans breed, or B; The Humans were the Wanderers (and thus EVIL). A century or so seems appropriate. Ysgramor survived this event, though is also said to have been amongst the first settlers, and seems to have still been alive considerably later, when the Giants split off from their Atmoran fellows.

 

This means that we have two possibilities. Ysgramor lived for at least several centuries, which is unlikely considering A; he is human, and B; He was a warrior and historian, not a mage. The Other is that Ysgramor was, in fact, multiple people, and was a title rather than a personal name. It could be that the reigning Thane-King of that lineage always took the name Ysgramor, after the first leader of men in Tamriel.

 

Whatever the case, however, we don't know exactly when he died, or how old he was at the time.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Lachdonin

[Robinsage]

I would add that the Nedes migrated down from Atmora also, so they would be proto-Atmorans.

 

It appears Skyrim was slightly warmer 5,000 years ago. Still cold though. Atmora has frozen since the Return and I don't think it's a stretch to imagine aspen's in the Riverwood area and thicker pine forests in the area around Skyforge.

 

And as powerful as Shalidor was he could also have been assisted by Magnus himself, or may even have been a Shezarine.

 

Another question: How far back does the Order (Cult) of the Ancestor Moth go? Merethic or Dawn Era?

 

Let me try this out, for fun:

Although Aldmeris was lost, the Falmer were driven to return to the et'Ada. They knew until they regained their divinity they would toil on Nirn as mortals. By virtue of divine authority they flourished and dominated all other races for thousands of years. They never lost their drive of divine destiny, and subsequently came across an Elder Scroll - it prophesized they would rejoin the et'Ada, but at a terrible cost to their race. To facilitate it they would need an artifact of immeasurable power left on Nirn by 'a creator of Mundus'. Pursuing their destiny, they learned the 'Eye of Magnus' was discovered by the encroaching Atmorans. They knew taking the Eye from men would set in motion the events of their reascention. So the Eye was wrested from men (Night of Tears). No survivors or witnesses were to be left to reduce further complications with men - but the few who did escape became the instruments of the Falmer's demise (The Return). While Falmer priests were studying the Eye, men returned and took back their city. The Eye slipped from the elves grasp. Demoralized and confused, the Falmer tried to make sense of their loss. Over the next 300 years the Falmer along with their ancient civilization were either wiped from Mereth, became wretched under it, or fled from the army of men and giants. Thus fulfilling the prophecy.

 

EDIT: removed redundancies

Edited November 7, 2014 by Robinsage

[Robinsage]

On Ysgramor, check this out:

 

This is assuming Ysgramor was one person and not Shezarine. I did some math and reign assumptions and came up with this:

 

By my reckoning Ysgramor walked around ME 350. The earliest human settlements in Tamriel date back to ME 800-1000. Men were slaves or under the heel of the elves for generations, reducing this number. Further, Kodlak Whitemane said the Return occurred sometime in the last five centuries of the Merethic Era, and that the companions were "nearly 5,000 years old". There are 4,450 years from 1E 0 to 4E 201. 4E201 - 5,000 years is ME -550. King Harald was born in 1E 113 and was the 13 heir (at birth) of Ysgramor. Given a 38 year avg reign of Skyrim rulers (yes I did the math >.< ), minus his, is 12 x 38 = 456 years succeeding Ysgramor. 1E 113 - 456 is ME -343 for the first heir to be born. If Ysgramor fathered his second born (Yngol died so Ylgar is the assumed 1st heir) at 30 (educated guess), he was born in ME -373 (-343-30). Ysgramor would be 50 with a 20 year old second son as heir in ME -323.

 

EDIT: I also read somewhere the Alessian slave revolt was inspired by and assisted from the Atmorans who drove their elven overlords out. The companions stopped fighting upon Ysgramor's death. So this puts the events of his life within a generation or two before 1E 0.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Robinsage