Refining Specular Effect on Clothing

[Heiligenia]

My graitude to those who have posted helpful hints to this forum. I have already been aided by Ghopiel so that I can create items with specular effects. However, in trail and error manipulation I find myself unable to render the desired effect. The "Normal/Gloss" map works with the variation between two shades of blue. I learned that red tones reverse the specular quality, bright on the dark side and dark on the bright side. Not sure what I can use that for yet. However, no matter how I manipulate coloration in the "Normal/Gloss" map I am unable to render a variation in the intensity of the shine. I have worked with almost every save possibility that NVIDIA adapter uses with Photoshop, with careful recording of the results, all without success. Working with NifScope and going over other renderings that have the desired effect has also been fruitless. It appears as though the "Leather Armor" aquires its specular quality from the .nif model raher than the "Normal/Gloss" map, much to my annoyance, since copying the "Normal/Gloss" color shades became a time consuming effort. All of the effort is fortunetaly making me more capable with the tools, but I am still unable to attain the desired effect.

 

Here is what I am seeing after saving in DXT5 to allow for specular effects (or for that matter, any save possibility that has specular effects. I saved on almost every format on the list):

 

 

As you can see, it's far too shiney to create a believable effect. From my experimentation it seems as though I have two options, on/off. I need a dimmer light for this so I can reduce the intensity of the glare to a light glaze. Perhaps I need to create the effect in Blender. Perhaps there is a feature of the "Normal/Gloss" map that I have yet to discover. Maybe it is hidden in the save options (I tried a wide range of possibilties), or perhaps I am just not finding the dimmer switch.

[ecksile]

You need to add an alpha channel to your specular map. Copy and paste the original texture into the alpha channel of the specular map save as DXT8 interpolated. The lighter or darker the alpha channel the more or less the specularity.

[Ghogiel]

You need to add an alpha channel to your specular map. Copy and paste the original texture into the alpha channel of the specular map save as DXT8 interpolated. The lighter or darker the alpha channel the more or less the specularity.

lol wtf. must have missed your coffee? F3 spec maps are contained in an alpha channel already, so that can't be done.

 

There is no such thing as DXT8! You mean DXT5.

 

anyway.

 

OP what are you doing! deary me. you can NOT hand paint normal maps! well you kinda can by lighting things from U or V directions, and putting thos into the R&G channels...

 

normal maps work by using vertex normals on the mesh- normals, tangents and bittangents to give each vertex an axis, then the map is used to transform and bend light reflection off the surface of the mesh. Where RGB of the map relate to directional properties... ie xyz.

 

read up on Normal maps creation right now.

 

spec maps for f3 are quite simple. dark = less specular. light = reflects more light.

[Heiligenia]

Thank you Ecksile and Ghogeil,

 

I was too focused on the blue-toned depth map, and not enough on the Black and White alpha channel in the file. My alpha channel image was far too light to produce the desired effect, and I was stuck in thinking it was something to do with the color of the main image. My gratitude to you both for getting me to think in new directions to resolve the problem.

 

However, my hours of experimentation have been quite handy to gain a better understanding of the potential for depth in an object. Ghogeil, I have been taking the main "Diffuse" texture and adding the effect "bas relief" in Photoshop CS3 (Filter -> Filter Gallery -> {effect is under "sketch"}). By using two shades of blue (I find RGB 113/112/252 for the dark, and RGB 102/219/240 for the light to be the best combo) I am able to render a blue-toned depth image in Photoshop without any difficulty. I can then tweak the image after it has been rendered into a blue tone. For instance, I wanted to remove the shadow/depth effect from a piece of the clothing (tannish portion at the neck, which is supposed to be linen), so I colored that portion solid dark blue. Lack of color variation removed the shadow effect on that piece so only the texture colors of the "Diffuse" map are visible. By manipulating the blue tones you can create all kinds of depth considerations. I added a small "pre-war running horses" patch to the front, and experimented with making the patch appear as though it has height (Sticks out a bit from the mesh), which the blue map was able to produce. It's much easier that creating actual height in Blender, ecspecially for such a minor alteration. (The horse patch didn't have actual height, but when light shown against it at an angle, it created a shadow under the piece which gives the impression of height.) I decided against the change, but it's there as a possibility.

 

In the alpha map I also did a small bit of tweaking. Since the specular qualities are a consideration of the lighness and darkness of the black-and-white alpha channel, I colored the linen portion solid black, since it is not leather in-game. It completely removed the specular shine from that selected piece, which is much easier than seperating pieces and giving them different shine qualities in a rendering program.

 

Just thought I would post some of my findings for others to use if they are having difficulties with "leather effect" on clothing. Also wanted to let you know that it is possible to render home-grown "Normal/Gloss" maps without too much difficulty, depending on the desired effect you are after (Granted, it took a lot of trail and error to find these features, but now that the leg work is done and I've written down the effects of varying conditions, I find the maps are easy to manipulate),

 

You guys have aided greatly in my progress, helping me to look in different directions. My pragmaticly stubborn mind can sometimes get stuck in one mode of thought, and like a autistic fanatic I dismantle every possible outcome without looking outside the box. Now I just need to make the jacket look more like a jacket, and add boots to the feet so the character isn't walking around the wastes in those inefficient pre-war shoes. For some of us I think there is a fine line between modding the game so we can play, and playing the game so we can mod. :0)

[Ghogiel]

However, my hours of experimentation have been quite handy to gain a better understanding of the potential for depth in an object. Ghogeil, I have been taking the main "Diffuse" texture and adding the effect "bas relief" in Photoshop CS3 (Filter -> Filter Gallery -> {effect is under "sketch"}). By using two shades of blue (I find RGB 113/112/252 for the dark, and RGB 102/219/240 for the light to be the best combo) I am able to render a blue-toned depth image in Photoshop without any difficulty. I can then tweak the image after it has been rendered into a blue tone. For instance, I wanted to remove the shadow/depth effect from a piece of the clothing (tannish portion at the neck, which is supposed to be linen), so I colored that portion solid dark blue. Lack of color variation removed the shadow effect on that piece so only the texture colors of the "Diffuse" map are visible. By manipulating the blue tones you can create all kinds of depth considerations. I added a small "pre-war running horses" patch to the front, and experimented with making the patch appear as though it has height (Sticks out a bit from the mesh), which the blue map was able to produce. It's much easier that creating actual height in Blender, ecspecially for such a minor alteration. (The horse patch didn't have actual height, but when light shown against it at an angle, it created a shadow under the piece which gives the impression of height.) I decided against the change, but it's there as a possibility.

there is a reason no one ever does this to create normal maps.

 

If you are doing a bitmap to normal conversion there are 2 ways. the most common way 90% of normal that aren't baked are created. You make a height map and use a height map to normal conversion.

 

the other way is far less common, but is quite effective as well, its similar to what you are doing, but the way you are doing it is terrible and will not yield correct results ever. IIRC this way involves creating 2 docs, flat grey, and lighting them from top to bottom , and the other left to right, from both sides. then you dump them into the R&G channels. now make a B channel, this is the Z component to the normal map, make it flat white, you can then inner glow those shapes, with black and multiply blend modes. then use the normal map filter to and set it to normalize. < you really need to know what you are doing to get this to look good. and you need to use a previewer to see the results as you tweak it...

there is a great tutorial from a few years ago that I can't find the link for .... it's on one or 2 of the more popular CG/3d artist web forums. < do not get ALL information from modders. 90% are amateurs who don't know what they are doing. Read GameDev, Polycount, CGsoceity ect for better info.

 

 

Just thought I would post some of my findings for others to use if they are having difficulties with "leather effect" on clothing. Also wanted to let you know that it is possible to render home-grown "Normal/Gloss" maps without too much difficulty, depending on the desired effect you are after (Granted, it took a lot of trail and error to find these features, but now that the leg work is done and I've written down the effects of varying conditions, I find the maps are easy to manipulate),

Go learn about normal mapping right now! you'll be changing you mind on your work flow instantly

[Ghogiel]

oops double posted

[Heiligenia]

Glad you kept at me Ghogiel.

 

Ben Cloward has an excellent informational tutorial on normal mapping. It's actually not hard to make a quality Normal map if you have Photoshop and the NVIDIA plugin. All of the work goes into setting up a black and white bump map, which can then be rendered into full axis normals. My amatuer blue map was only giving me a portion of the directions needed to create more complex designs (only variation on the blue axis). I will have to go back and take a look at the model again and see if I can tweak that map into a sweet x, y, z combo.

 

Dang, there is modding, and then there is MODDING. Nice.

[ecksile]

when i said spec map i was meaning his _n textures and i was saying he needs to add an alpha channel to those in order to be able to adjust the shineyness. i was in a rush when i wrote it and didnt have much time to think xD. LOLOLOL DXT8 heehee :sweat: