Which Mythological Creature?

[WizardOfAtlantis]

Technically a mythological creature does have to come from the past...

 

Myths are formed over time by word of mouth, so it would only be past things.

Yes and no. Yesterday is the past, Marharth, even two seconds ago is technically. Everything that is not now yet has existed is "the past", as the future is a present that doesn't yet exist. This is the basic conception of time in all Germanic/Teutonic/Scandinavian/etc peoples, that is why in English we have past tense and present tense but we have no actual future tense. You can say you did and you do, but to say what is going to happen, you have to say you "will" do it, i.e. enforce your will through the ever-consecutive presents until that "future" is now. Enough of that...

 

Therefore, all that we have created in our Imaginarium comes from the past because it has already been created. Cyborgs, and their medieval/renaissance equivalents in Golems, have existed for centuries. In fact, in the Ancient World, there were tales of mechanical monsters (pardon the alliteration, creatures would be better perhaps, or constructions) in ancient pagan temples (Greece), statues that moved on their own, etc, even some that had lights that shined out of their eyes (electricity?).

 

It's only a common perceptual inclination that when we refer to Mythology, we mean Greeks, Romans, Vikings, etc, cultures in "the past". That is normally, and I don't imply you here, simply a way to look down on those people's world views as something that "isn't real", or not really "religion" when compared to the socially and culturally more widespread and accepted "religions" of today, i.e. a Time-biased way of looking at what comes "later" as obviously "better" in some misaligned application of Darwinian "evolution".

 

So, in fact, cyborgs (or the essence of being a cyborg as seen through the perceptual optics of the time) have been around not only for twenty years or a hundred, but actually for thousands in one form or another.

[marharth]

Technically a mythological creature does have to come from the past...

 

Myths are formed over time by word of mouth, so it would only be past things.

Yes and no. Yesterday is the past, Marharth, even two seconds ago is technically. Everything that is not now yet has existed is "the past", as the future is a present that doesn't yet exist. This is the basic conception of time in all Germanic/Teutonic/Scandinavian/etc peoples, that is why in English we have past tense and present tense but we have no actual future tense. You can say you did and you do, but to say what is going to happen, you have to say you "will" do it, i.e. enforce your will through the ever-consecutive presents until that "future" is now. Enough of that...

 

Therefore, all that we have created in our Imaginarium comes from the past because it has already been created. Cyborgs, and their medieval/renaissance equivalents in Golems, have existed for centuries. In fact, in the Ancient World, there were tales of mechanical monsters (pardon the alliteration, creatures would be better perhaps, or constructions) in ancient pagan temples (Greece), statues that moved on their own, etc, even some that had lights that shined out of their eyes (electricity?).

 

It's only a common perceptual inclination that when we refer to Mythology, we mean Greeks, Romans, Vikings, etc, cultures in "the past". That is normally, and I don't imply you here, simply a way to look down on those people's world views as something that "isn't real", or not really "religion" when compared to the socially and culturally more widespread and accepted "religions" of today, i.e. a Time-biased way of looking at what comes "later" as obviously "better" in some misaligned application of Darwinian "evolution".

 

So, in fact, cyborgs (or the essence of being a cyborg as seen through the perceptual optics of the time) have been around not only for twenty years or a hundred, but actually for thousands in one form or another.

What makes it mythology is that it is associated with a myth, I have never heard of any myth having to do with machine people but if you can quote one ill shut up :P

[WizardOfAtlantis]

What makes it mythology is that it is associated with a myth, I have never heard of any myth having to do with machine people but if you can quote one ill shut up :P

Well, aside from the Golem of Prague, which is basically a robot energized by magic, who is the "Defender of the Jews/Ghetto", as it was, there are other examples from more "classical" mylhology.

 

Hephaestus made robots to help him in the forge, as well as creating the gigantic bronze robot Thalos, which can be seen in that great old film, Sinbad or Jason and the Argonauts, I don't remember. While he seems like a big magically animated statue, he is clearly a mechanical construction, as is seen by his downfall when they unstopper his fluids, created by the Greek god Hephaestus. He forged tripods which moved about autonomously on golden wheels to serve the gods that visited him. He also made out of gold two maids, since he had a limp, who could serve him, speak, and were filled with all of the wisdom of the immortals, according to the Illiad.

 

His Roman counterpart Vulcan, in a very similar vein, made slave girls out of gold for himself, or so I've read.

[marharth]

What makes it mythology is that it is associated with a myth, I have never heard of any myth having to do with machine people but if you can quote one ill shut up :P

Well, aside from the Golem of Prague, which is basically a robot energized by magic, who is the "Defender of the Jews/Ghetto", as it was, there are other examples from more "classical" mylhology.

 

Hephaestus made robots to help him in the forge, as well as creating the gigantic bronze robot Thalos, which can be seen in that great old film, Sinbad or Jason and the Argonauts, I don't remember. While he seems like a big magically animated statue, he is clearly a mechanical construction, as is seen by his downfall when they unstopper his fluids, created by the Greek god Hephaestus. He forged tripods which moved about autonomously on golden wheels to serve the gods that visited him. He also made out of gold two maids, since he had a limp, who could serve him, speak, and were filled with all of the wisdom of the immortals, according to the Illiad.

 

His Roman counterpart Vulcan, in a very similar vein, made slave girls out of gold for himself, or so I've read.

Hm fair enough, not sure if I would consider them cyborgs as much as animated statues but I guess in our modern day people would think that.

[WizardOfAtlantis]

Hm fair enough, not sure if I would consider them cyborgs as much as animated statues but I guess in our modern day people would think that.

Yes, I agree with you on that, there is a fine line there and once again I think we come to the line that separates technology and magic. They certainly are animated statues in a sense, but how exactly are they animated? We are talking about gods, so magic is certainly an option, however they are gods of the forge, of technology, and craftsmanship, and it's there that we enter into the true grey area. We already know that electricity existed in the ancient world. I bet there were uses for it, too, besides electroplating jewelry. Technology at that time would have been indistinguishable from the magic of the gods, too, so even the tales handed down are going to be iffy on that regard, with only hints here or there (though sometimes big hints, like pulling the plug on Thalos' hydraulic system to drain him of his power).

 

There is also the tale of Yan Shi, an artificer, and the automaton that he presented to King Mu of Shou in the 10th century BC. This is presented as history, of course, and not mythology but it sheds light on the discussion. This is Wikipedia's quoting of the translation of the 3rd century BC text that talks about this event.

 

"The king stared at the figure in astonishment. It walked with rapid strides, moving its head up and down, so that anyone would have taken it for a live human being. The artificer touched its chin, and it began singing, perfectly in tune. He touched its hand, and it began posturing, keeping perfect time...As the performance was drawing to an end, the robot winked its eye and made advances to the ladies in attendance, whereupon the king became incensed and would have had Yen Shih (Yan Shi) executed on the spot had not the latter, in mortal fear, instantly taken the robot to pieces to let him see what it really was. And, indeed, it turned out to be only a construction of leather, wood, glue and lacquer, variously coloured white, black, red and blue. Examining it closely, the king found all the internal organs complete—liver, gall, heart, lungs, spleen, kidneys, stomach and intestines; and over these again,muscles, bones and limbs with their[joints, skin, teeth and hair, all of them artificial...The king tried the effect of taking away the heart, and found that the mouth could no longer speak; he took away the liver and the eyes could no longer see; he took away the kidneys and the legs lost their power of locomotion. The king was delighted."

[KazFoxsen]

Dig the kitsune.

[marharth]

Just noticed 7 people voted for god.

 

I would find being a powerful god a bit boring...

 

Wouldn't mind being a demi god though, would want to fit in with the crowd.

[Sync182]

Heh...

 

So far I'm the only person to vote for Demigod. ;)

 

Why?

 

Powerful than mere mortals, but not all-powerful like the gods. Demigods can do things that we can only dream about, but they still have human frailties. They're a good mix of divine power and mortal suffering.

 

Cyborgs (the aritifical/technological kind, that is)? I'd change my vote in an instant if the option became available. :thumbsup: