I feel this person was mistreated.

[Jimbo13]

I have no personal stake as I don't know the person but I find it troubling the draconian way this person was banned in this thread. http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/237648-modding-on-ps3/

 

 

This person was not discussing or promoting piracy. He was simply asking about getting Mods working on PS3 and despite personal feelings it is neither wrong nor illegal.

 

Since the site seems to be taking a stance; what I do find illegal is that Sony stripped the sold and advertised feature of being able to install linux, which is one of the features the program he was mentioning restores.

 

 

But I digress, I found it saddening even if the forums are a private entity that anyone in a free society would have such a knee-jerk reaction with no warning to this person that was not discussing anything illegal or wrong.

[Dark0ne]

Fact: we don't endorse piracy and we don't endorse people who do.

Fact: if you admit to pirating any game you will be instantly banned.

Fact: if I could insure members of the site had legitimately purchased the game via a CD-Key check or otherwise (like the BioWare forums do) I would. But I can't. This "draconian" way is the next best thing.

 

In order to get mods working on the 360 and PS3 you need to "hack" your console to install other firmware and go against the wishes of the companies who make the consoles. 99% of the time people do this so they can play pirated games. If you want to do that then that's your perogative but I want these forums above the board. We don't talk about such things here.

 

Personally I'd have given a stern warning, but others have been banned for similar.

[Jimbo13]

Fact: we don't endorse piracy and we don't endorse people who do.

Fact: if you admit to pirating any game you will be instantly banned.

Fact: if I could insure members of the site had legitimately purchased the game via a CD-Key check or otherwise (like the BioWare forums do) I would. But I can't. This "draconian" way is the next best thing.

 

In order to get mods working on the 360 and PS3 you need to "hack" your console to install other firmware and go against the wishes of the companies who make the consoles. 99% of the time people do this so they can play pirated games. If you want to do that then that's your perogative but I want these forums above the board. We don't talk about such things here.

 

Personally I'd have given a stern warning, but others have been banned for similar.

 

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I respect the forums stance on piracy however I still don't feel he was promoting, encouraging or discussing. I use the program he mentioned to maintain the ability to run Linux on my PS3 (which the system shipped with and later removed with a firmware update).

 

If you feel so strongly on these matters it would be prudent if you made it clear that discussion of mods being used on consoles are not allowed as opposed to demonizing people as thieves, Some of us don't give a damn about the wishes of Microsoft or Sony as long as we are not engaging in theft or breaking the law.

 

I apologize if I seem a little emo about the above issue, as a technophile I take great interest in maintaining personal ownership of my hardware and a free and open internet.

 

Thanks for your site, I consider it a invaluable resource.

[Thandal]

Thanks for your reply.

 

I respect the forums stance on piracy however I still don't feel he was promoting, encouraging or discussing. I use the program he mentioned to maintain the ability to run Linux on my PS3 (which the system shipped with and later removed with a firmware update).

 

But "running mods on his PS3" was EXACTLY the reason the poster was discussing/requesting it, wasn't it?

 

If you feel so strongly on these matters it would be prudent if you made it clear that discussion of mods being used on consoles are not allowed as opposed to demonizing people as thieves, Some of us don't give a damn about the wishes of Microsoft or Sony as long as we are not engaging in theft or breaking the law.

 

"Getting mods working" on a consoles requires violating the TOS for the platform. Discussing or requesting any assistance on how to do so is clearly also a violation of Nexus' TOS. So regardless of your views on the matter, simply by asking the question, the poster was clearly committing a bannable offense, and if s/he had read the Forum rules, would have known so.

 

I apologize if I seem a little emo about the above issue, as a technophile I take great interest in maintaining personal ownership of my hardware and a free and open internet.

 

Thanks for your site, I consider it a invaluable resource.

I find it almost impossible to picture this sophisticated "technophile" who only wants to get Linux running on his (invariably it would be "his") PS3 for purely legitimate reasons USING A GAME FORUM to learn how. That there may even be such "legal" uses for the program in question, as you assert, does not make it alright to request it here on Nexus.

 

Oh, and I had to chuckle when I read your next-to-last line. Many, many millions of people are paying to create and maintain both the infrastructure and the content of the internet. What restrictions those who do so put on how it may be accessed is a topic worthy of much debate, but it is most definitely NOT "free". (Just to point to an example in our current local environment, someone ELSE is paying to make it possible for there to be a Nexus for YOU to access.)

[Jimbo13]

 

 

Oh, and I had to chuckle when I read your next-to-last line. Many, many millions of people are paying to create and maintain both the infrastructure and the content of the internet. What restrictions those who do so put on how it may be accessed is a topic worthy of much debate, but it is most definitely NOT "free". (Just to point to an example in our current local environment, someone ELSE is paying to make it possible for there to be a Nexus for YOU to access.)

 

For the record the words console or piracy do not appear anywhere in the forum rules listed here http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/2881-all-newbies-read-this-before-posting/

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it is mentioned in the initial forum TOS; When I use the term "free and open" it has nothing to do with monetary issues, as in free speech is not putting a monetary value on the right thereof.

 

I don't feel like explaining the fact he was simply talking about extracting mod files; so as far as the rest of your accusatory rant full of assumptions I think Walter Sobchalk said it best, "Your out of your element, your like a child who walks in to the middle of a movie and asks whats going on!".

 

http://www.80stees.com/images/products/Out_Of_Element-T-link.jpg

 

If people like you have your way one day we will have to connect our toasters to the internet and pay separate license fee's for white & wheat bread.

[Ranokoa]

The posting of copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you or you have consent from the owner of the copyrighted material, is strictly prohibited on any Nexus site. This includes linking to sites that contain copyrighted material used without permission of the copyright holder. Legal inquiries regarding copyright infringement are taken very seriously on Nexus sites and we will work with any legal body to identify and bring to justice anyone who might use a Nexus site to share copyrighted material.

http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

 

 

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2638/tosst.jpg

 

Be well, sleep well, fight well, live long.

~Ranokoa

[Thandal]

Well, as a software author and copyright holder, I have more than a casual understanding of what's involved in both producing and protecting these types of works. (Careful who you call a child.)

 

We seem to have differing opinions as to what constitutes "appropriate use" under the Terms of Service for both the PS3 itself, and these forums. I believe that some of this disareement may be due to the misunderstanding of the nature of licening agreements and copyrights and as they apply to software. You may "own" your physical PS3 device, but Sony can turn it into a brick at their descretion if they determine that you have violated their TOS, because they hold the (copyright on the) code that makes it work, and we (the users) have agreed to certain terms in order to be allowed/able to use it.

 

I provide here the (current) language the original "mistreated" person had agreed to:

 

[Excerpts, empahsis added, source: http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html ]

 

=======================

 

SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT (Version 1.4) FOR THE PlayStation®3 SYSTEM

December 10, 2009

 

2. RESTRICTIONS

 

You may not ... reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the System Software ...

 

You may not:

 

(i) use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit, or modified hardware or software in connection with the System Software, including use of tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism for the PS3™ system;

...

(iii) use any hardware or software to cause the System Software to accept or use unauthorized, illegal, or pirated software or hardware;

 

(iv) obtain the System Software in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods; or

 

(v) exploit the System Software in any manner other than to use it in your PS3™ system in accordance with the accompanying documentation and with authorized software or hardware, including use of the System Software to design, develop, update, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware for use in connection with the PS3™ system for any reason.

...

7. TERMINATION

 

If SCE determines that you have violated the terms of this Agreement, SCE may take all actions to protect its interests, including ... implementation of upgrades or devices intended to discontinue unauthorized use, or reliance on any other remedial efforts as reasonably necessary to prevent the use of a modified PS3™ system, or any pirated material or equipment.

 

=======================

 

Seems like they are pretty intent on protecting their investment and legal intrest in the code and its operation.

 

Also seems that requesting help to violate these terms clearly violates those of Nexus.

[Ranokoa]

That plus my post pretty much solves it. I doubt there is more to say on this subject, the person was banned justly, for reason and cause that are for the terms of his illegal activity to which he agreed to two persons (PS3 and Nexus) to not do.

[Jimbo13]

We have a feedback forum here on the nexus, I felt the act of banning someone for simply mentioning they installed a piece of legal software with numerous legitimate uses was excessive. I felt it was similar to someone stating they own a gun, so you assume they shot someone or plan to rob a bank. As a user I felt entitled to leave that feedback respectfully which I did., if they don't care for it that's fine. End of story.

 

 

As far as Sony's policies, I didn't buy my PS3 from Sony. They do not make case law and they wont be turning my system in to a brick because I stopped taking their updates long ago and cut the cord they wished to attach to my legally acquired hardware and I don't need their software. Federal Judges have consistently ruled violating a TOS is not a crime, and if you wish to debate that take it to the EFF.

 

I'll install what ever I want on my hardware, I'll use it anyway I damn well please and if that interferes with Sony's business model tough titty; they have a flawed business model that wont work in the real word.

I for one don't plan on letting the historical concept of ownership to be re-written to accommodate Sony or anyone else.

 

 

That is my world view, no one is asking you to agree with it.

[Vagrant0]

We have a feedback forum here on the nexus, I felt the act of banning someone for simply mentioning they installed a piece of legal software with numerous legitimate uses was excessive. I felt it was similar to someone stating they own a gun, so you assume they shot someone or plan to rob a bank. As a user I felt entitled to leave that feedback respectfully which I did., if they don't care for it that's fine. End of story.

 

 

As far as Sony's policies, I didn't buy my PS3 from Sony. They do not make case law and they wont be turning my system in to a brick because I stopped taking their updates long ago and cut the cord they wished to attach to my legally acquired hardware and I don't need their software. Federal Judges have consistently ruled violating a TOS is not a crime, and if you wish to debate that take it to the EFF.

 

I'll install what ever I want on my hardware, I'll use it anyway I damn well please and if that interferes with Sony's business model tough titty; they have a flawed business model that wont work in the real word.

I for one don't plan on letting the historical concept of ownership to be re-written to accommodate Sony or anyone else.

 

 

That is my world view, no one is asking you to agree with it.

1. There are no legal, legitimate uses for modifying a console. NONE.

a. Using it to bypass region restrictions is illegal since it allows unsanctioned (by the publisher and those who regulate trade in your country) importation of software which is a criminal act similar to smuggling.

b. Using it to play copied/bootleg games is illegal for obvious reasons.

c. What remains is changing some aspect related to the console's software which is in direct violation of the terms of use for that software. Even if you did not purchase your system directly from Sony, you purchased it from a retailer who purchased it from Sony, and in turning on the system certified that you agreed to the legally binding terms and conditions of using that system. THE USE OF MODS REQUIRES CHANGING CONSOLE SOFTWARE TO ACCEPT THE NEW DATA, AND THUS IS A BREACH OF THOSE TERMS.

 

2. This site neither condones nor endorses modification of any console in accordance with US/UK laws which would make us legally liable for any damages which might result if we did. Although we are not under contract to agree to the terms or conditions related to the console companies, we are still responsible towards ensuring that the content on this site does not contain information which would lead to an unlawful act. It does not matter what you think is a legal act, but rather what the companies or lawyers consider is an illegal act.

 

3. If you want to turn your console into a $400 paperweight, that is your choice, and your decision. However this site refuses to participate in, or sanction any action or discussion which would facilitate that decision. This is our stance. If you cannot adhere to it, you will be removed from this site. This issue is not open for review, dispute, or question. If you disagree, you can go somewhere else, and go cry to them when your console gets wiped and banned.

 

/thread