Lachdonin Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Oh, Torygg knew he was dead, for sure. On swordsmanship alone, Ulfric outclassed him in every way. Ulfric's use of the Thu'um on top of that was not only a violation of the tradition of judicial duel, but an outright insult to Torygg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makuansoni Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Ulfric claims that he didn't kill Torygg with his shout, but with his blade. However, the use of the shout as a means to terrify and terrorize is likely why they don't consider this to be a mere duel. Also, Solitude is a bunch of Cyrrodil wannabes, I don't know that you could count any of them but Rikka to be true Nords. Its unsurprising that they would consider this murder as opposed to a challenge. There's also the possibility that there's a difference between a challenge between two nords that's acceptable, but people don't think those traditions apply to the HIgh King. Also, he was a welp of a lad who had lost his father. It was most definitely "be a winner today, pick a fight with a six year old" kind of moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I look at it in 2 contexts: a) Who to follow out of the keep, since the game forces you to follow one. To me that's a no-brainer, and it isn't the guy that was cataloging your death minutes earlier. I want to get as far away from him and his fellow henchman as possible. Fight or Flight response would pretty much dictate that. Only way I follow the scribe into the keep is if I plan on putting a knife in his gut. b) Who to actually join - if you actually choose to join a side. That is best answered if you DON'T follow them to Riverwood and just play the game for awhile. Make that left turn at Albuquerque once you leave the cave. Let the dialogue and events help you make an informed decision. Eventually, I almost always come to the same conclusion. There is just something inherently wrong with the Empires unwillingness or inability to check the Thalmor on Imperial territory. Imperial citizens under the Emperor's rule getting slaughtered by the Thalmor in Skyrim with alarming frequency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VileTouch Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) 2 things that bother me about the empire: - If Talos is not a divine, then how come i get a blessing by praying at his shrine?- Ulfric beat Torygg in duel fair and square. everyone else's moaning about it makes NO sense! with those two alone it's evident that the legion is only grasping at straws. 1; Talos is a Divine. In fact, he's the only one of the 9 not at all affected by worship. 2; And this is important... WAS NOT FAIR. The use of a Thu'um is not permitted in Nord duels. It is a strictly MARTIAL competition. but that's my point. the game does not provide enough information on the customary usages in Nord duels. The Thu'um may be perfectly acceptable, as the archetypical weapon of ancient Nord heroes, and from Ulfric's account we know that the the thu'um was hardly the cause of death, as you can test yourself if you try to kill something with unrelenting force. what did kill him was Ulfric's sword piercing his heart. even Torygg himself acknowledges it was a honorable fight when you meet him in Sovngarde. higly biased towards the battle hardened Ulfric, of course but it's not his fault that the high king was a milk drinker :tongue: oh and here's a quote from...somewhere else Practically everyone who was worthy by Nord standards, to lead an army or lead a kingdom back then used/knew how to use the Thu'um. He challenged Torygg according to Nord customs, I think he damn well has the right to use Nord skills. Edited January 8, 2015 by VileTouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolfEburg Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The game isn't exactly big on information, although I guess pro-Imperial characters would insist that Ulfric was dishonorable by Nord standards, while pro-Stormcloak ones would insist that everything was fair and square. Notions of honor are often that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boombro Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The game isn't exactly big on information, although I guess pro-Imperial characters would insist that Ulfric was dishonorable by Nord standards, while pro-Stormcloak ones would insist that everything was fair and square. Notions of honor are often that way.I agree. I kind of like how it not clear who is bad guy or the best thing to do. Even after three years it still not clear. Personally, I wonder what other places are doing. Black marsh seems to wants to bring down the Empire and the Altmer. They have spies in both, the place cannot be invaded and so little information is there, the hist is overpowered and they seem well manged. Hammerfell may need to regroup with another province to fend off the Altmer, it kind of scary for them to be where they can be attacked from all sides. I think the dunmer will be more than happy to fight off the Argonians off Morrowind after Skyrim treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Ulfric's use of the Voice was a bit of double-edged marketing on his part. His plan was to use the Voice, the power of ancient Nord heroes, to rally people to his cause. The end result was people who would have supported the Stormcloaks, anyway, would be saying "Oh, cool. Our leader has the ancient power of heroes", while people who would have supported the Legion, anyway, would be saying "Oh, that traitor is a cheater, as well". End result: No push on either side. Edited January 11, 2015 by MidbossVyers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The reality is Ulfric was likely going to win any duel with Torygg, since Ulfric was a battle hardened soldier and Torygg wasn't. For Imperialists to say Ulfric cheated misses the whole point, the only reason Ulfric even used the Thu'um was to intimidate the remaining Jarls. Doesn't look like the intimidation worked though. Torygg was a dead man walking in any duel with Ulfric - the Thu'um was just for show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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