You know what really grinds my gears?

[Ferryt]

Um ... Amer14 ... there are no children in the game of Oblivion. Also, what WeissYohji said doesn't reflect the actual reality in-game. Just because he's never seen a citizen getting waylaid by someone else doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's very rare, but it does happen. I've seen a few random events like this, myself, one of which wound up with a "name" NPC getting killed and another of which wound up with a "name" NPC getting led off to jail. I really can't figure out what any of this has to do with "child slaughter".

[WeissYohji]

And then there's the AI. How can it be realistic and immersive when I can't witness NPCs committing crimes and getting arrested? I'd love to see some guards breaking up a bar fight or a street brawl, or chasing after a serial killer.

 

Actually, I have seen an NPC committing a crime and getting arrested - and this was in a straight vanilla game as I had not discovered about mods yet. :) It was the trainer that lives in Skingrad, I forget his name. I was at the stables when he snuck by and attempted to pickpocket someone. He was detected and the gate guards went after him. He resisted arrest and the guards killed him.

 

What could I do except loot the body and sell all of his stuff. :biggrin:

 

because of child slaughter. Go outside of Anvil and talk to the guy in the torn blue robes about romours. he talks about the reasons bethesda didnt put certain things in the game

 

That's just stupid of Bethesda to not put kids in Oblivion. It'd be a lot more realistic!

[Ferryt]

I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard that one of the devs maintained that they didn't put children into Oblivion because there would be a public outcry about players butchering kids in the game. Sounds pretty lame, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was at least one of the reasons. There are children in Fallout 3, though. Did that game get reamed because of that? Nope. Neither would Oblivion.

 

Frankly, I think the reason is exactly the one I've already given for the lack of a unique Argonian or Khajiit body, or the lack of a female body. The development team was just too lazy, or rushed, or both, to do the extra work required for the additional meshes.

[WeissYohji]

I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard that one of the devs maintained that they didn't put children into Oblivion because there would be a public outcry about players butchering kids in the game. Sounds pretty lame, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was at least one of the reasons. There are children in Fallout 3, though. Did that game get reamed because of that? Nope. Neither would Oblivion.

 

Frankly, I think the reason is exactly the one I've already given for the lack of a unique Argonian or Khajiit body, or the lack of a female body. The development team was just too lazy, or rushed, or both, to do the extra work required for the additional meshes.

 

Public outcry? So what? It's just a goddamn video game! Totally fake. Not real. Made up. If they can have kids in Fallout 3, they can have them in Oblivion!

 

Bethesda had better learn from this and fix all these problems once TES5 gets out the gate. Especially all the glitches that they never fixed--it's like they just didn't care.

 

Then there's the official plugins. They know we like the plugins--why not just put them in the game from the start?

[The_Vyper]

Then there's the official plugins. They know we like the plugins--why not just put them in the game from the start?

Two reasons:

 

1. Development deadlines. There is sometimes not enough time to add all of this stuff to the vanilla game. Example: There was supposed to be a quest about Lord Vlindril in the vanilla game, but they didn't have time to complete it. So, they put it in KotN.

 

2. Money. Let's say 10,000 people buy Oblivion for $50. That's $500,000 right there. Now let's say that 5,000 of those buyers also buy KotN for $10. Now let's say 3,000 buy Mehrunes Razor for $3. That's another $9,000. Now let's say that 1,000 buy Spell Tomes for $1. That's another $1,000 for a total of an additional $60,000 that they wouldn't have made if those had been included in the original release.

[documn]

Bethesda had better learn from this and fix all these problems once TES5 gets out the gate. Especially all the glitches that they never fixed--it's like they just didn't care.

I believe Bethesda should strive for excellence, but aside from that, I don't think they have much reason to fix all these problems. We all know how sloppy the game is - I mean, that's what this thread is about - but despite that, the game is hugely popular and got a ton of good reviews and awards. It seems likely that the next game will be a commercial success too, even if they don't fix everything that was wrong with Oblivion.

[Ferryt]

Well, remember the apparent target audience, WeissYohji -- I seriously doubt it was the 18+ crowd, and then some stupid dev left in a topless female body and it had to be rated "M" anyway :rolleyes: . If there was the potential for even pretend child abuse (read that wholesale murder) in the game they could never have originally released it with a "T" rating without incurring the wrath of parents, everywhere, who are unable to distinguish fantasy from reality. And ... you know as well as I do that there are kids who would have run rampant across Cyrodiil killing every child NPC they could find, just because it would be so easy and k.e.w.l. to do so. The devs understood the mentality of the target audience pretty well, I think.

 

As for plugins, I don't mind plugins. I'm actually a little ticked that KotN wasn't included as part of the main game, but as has been mentioned, before, Bethesda rushed Oblivion through development, and I'm sure that's why at least some of the plugins weren't part of the official game. Shivering Isles? Haven't played it yet, but it has the "feel" of what a plug-in should be. Things like Thieves Den, Fighters Stronghold, Wizard's Tower, and Vile Lair should have been in the main game as optional things which could be activated or not, as the player wished. I honestly see no excuse for the horse armor plugin having not been part of the main game. Plugins should be expansions to the game -- not just things added into the world after the fact. Sure money is a main consideration about DLC, but if you look at a game like Borderlands you see DLC that truly expands the game beyond its original borders. If Gearbox can do it right you'd think that Bethesda could.

 

documn, if Oblivion had been an automobile the government would have forced a recall with full reimbursement for everybody who bought one. It's that unfinished and full of bugs. They were responsible for releasing a finished product, fully beta tested. Instead we got something barely out of alpha testing. I consider them fully responsible for fixing the problems. Of course, it's not going to happen. They know we have a modding community that's doing their work for them, free of charge (witness the Unofficial Oblivion patches). And, they simply don't give a rat's behind what we think about their laziness in this matter. They know people will continue purchase Oblivion for as long as it's available and they're no longer actively supporting the game, anyway, since their sights have been turned to TES5. They have a "captive" audience and they know it, so why bother doing an excellent job on anything when they know we'll let them get by with a mediocre (or worse) job and it will still make them money?

[WeissYohji]

Well, remember the apparent target audience, WeissYohji -- I seriously doubt it was the 18+ crowd, and then some stupid dev left in a topless female body and it had to be rated "M" anyway :rolleyes: . If there was the potential for even pretend child abuse (read that wholesale murder) in the game they could never have originally released it with a "T" rating without incurring the wrath of parents, everywhere, who are unable to distinguish fantasy from reality. And ... you know as well as I do that there are kids who would have run rampant across Cyrodiil killing every child NPC they could find, just because it would be so easy and k.e.w.l. to do so. The devs understood the mentality of the target audience pretty well, I think.

 

As for plugins, I don't mind plugins. I'm actually a little ticked that KotN wasn't included as part of the main game, but as has been mentioned, before, Bethesda rushed Oblivion through development, and I'm sure that's why at least some of the plugins weren't part of the official game. Shivering Isles? Haven't played it yet, but it has the "feel" of what a plug-in should be. Things like Thieves Den, Fighters Stronghold, Wizard's Tower, and Vile Lair should have been in the main game as optional things which could be activated or not, as the player wished. I honestly see no excuse for the horse armor plugin having not been part of the main game. Plugins should be expansions to the game -- not just things added into the world after the fact. Sure money is a main consideration about DLC, but if you look at a game like Borderlands you see DLC that truly expands the game beyond its original borders. If Gearbox can do it right you'd think that Bethesda could.

 

documn, if Oblivion had been an automobile the government would have forced a recall with full reimbursement for everybody who bought one. It's that unfinished and full of bugs. They were responsible for releasing a finished product, fully beta tested. Instead we got something barely out of alpha testing. I consider them fully responsible for fixing the problems. Of course, it's not going to happen. They know we have a modding community that's doing their work for them, free of charge (witness the Unofficial Oblivion patches). And, they simply don't give a rat's behind what we think about their laziness in this matter. They know people will continue purchase Oblivion for as long as it's available and they're no longer actively supporting the game, anyway, since their sights have been turned to TES5. They have a "captive" audience and they know it, so why bother doing an excellent job on anything when they know we'll let them get by with a mediocre (or worse) job and it will still make them money?

 

At least Microsoft and Digital Anvil got things right with Freelancer. No glitches, no half-assed quests, no bulls***. Sure, it's not all realistic and immersive when planets are always stationary and space somehow has friction, but at least they took their time and got the basic stuff right before releasing the game. As for expansions, I'd have liked to see them do something like what we got with Discovery Freelancer--hundreds of new systems to explore around in, ships to fly with, weapons, etc.

 

Now, if we'd get a finished, lore-friendly version of the new Hammerfell mod, we'd be set. Or maybe mods that can take us to Pyandonea, Akavir, Esroniet, Roscrea, Atmora, Thras, or what's left of Yokuda. Ditto a finished version of Elsweyr: The Deserts of Anequina.

[Synthesis]

Someone may have already mentioned this (though to my annoyance, it feels like I'm the only one who has it), but I hate the fact that horse animations are "broken"--that is, if you're riding a horse and start climbing up a mountain, your horse doesn't change its angle. If you are running down a hill that isn't perfectly flat, your horse looks like it's floating.

 

This bug just began one day, and pretty much happens everywhere. And one's redone the animations of the actual horse itself, just of the player.

 

At this point, given the pain of riding horses anyway (if you have companions), and the broken animations, it's hard not to just skip horses entirely.

[WeissYohji]

Someone may have already mentioned this (though to my annoyance, it feels like I'm the only one who has it), but I hate the fact that horse animations are "broken"--that is, if you're riding a horse and start climbing up a mountain, your horse doesn't change its angle. If you are running down a hill that isn't perfectly flat, your horse looks like it's floating.

 

This bug just began one day, and pretty much happens everywhere. And one's redone the animations of the actual horse itself, just of the player.

 

At this point, given the pain of riding horses anyway (if you have companions), and the broken animations, it's hard not to just skip horses entirely.

 

I've always found it strange that the horses are 1) all geldings, including Shadowmere (Even though she's clearly supposed to be FEMALE!), and 2) somehow part mountain goat, judging from how well they climb. Real horses do NOT climb that well!