Honor Codes/Systems

[Aurielius]

The most stringent of current honor codes that are in existence are those used by the US military academies, the Cadet Honor Codes. these Honor Codes not only govern day to day life at their respective institutions but are considered essential to the development of a future officer's character. As such, the codes are not limited merely to academic situations or to conduct on campus; cadets and midshipmen are expected to live by the codes' ethical standards at all times. Furthermore, they may not tolerate violations by other cadets-toleration itself being a violation of the code, with the exception of the Honor Concept of the Brigade of Midshipmen at the United States Naval Academy, which allows the observer of an honor violation to confront the accused without formally reporting. It was found that this method was more constructive at developing the honor of midshipmen as opposed to a non-toleration clause, which created enemies of classmates and ones true honor, if other than utmost, was not able to be formally re mediated when hidden from public view. Under the academies' honor codes, violation of the code is generally dealt with by forwarding the offender for expulsion by the secretary, depending on the nature of the offense and how far along in their training at the academy the accused is. In my opinion they make good and trustworthy future officers that can be relied on to behave in an appropriate manner in times of crisis.

[DariusMoranda]

We are coming on this planet with it running through our blood or we just lack the thing, it's that simple.

 

Honor codes exist since the ancient times, in societies of all kind and purposes, from both samurai and yakuza's for example. Then you have the army, mafia, political parties, religious cults and sects, secret societies and groups, brotherhoods, merchants, workers,sportsmen etc, it is present in every structure through the history, from small farms , all the way to the state level.And they all follow some code and practice the same between themselves, it is the strongest string on the instrument of the mass, the rule number 1, brings the order in the chaos and strength in difficult times when it is needed. It is a good thing for the community and keeps the community as a whole , no matter of the side factors or anything else.

 

Does it makes good for the rest of the surrounding? Not necessarily.

 

Waffen SS had an honor code, too. They consider themselves proud knights, they were soldiers for example, coming from personal hygiene, over the skill they posses,loyalty, courage and dedication on the battlefield and overall, in their work.

 

But they hanged, burned, raped , shot, gassed , tortured, massacred and bayoneted innocent people and POWs for no reason, very often.

 

Honor codes doesn't define actions of the group. Why?

 

Because, honor codes are written by a man. The man who propose them and integrates them is an individual, with his own rules and principles. Does the man have good intentions? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

 

Then what about the group which stands above the man? Who are they? They are there, really to follow, to practice, to spread the word, to make themselves proud to be a part of their group, they want to bring good things for it and for the leader, it is their purpose.

 

Are they all born with the honor in their leukocytes? Not necessarily.

 

People are different, they think and acti in different ways, has different goals, priorities, etc.

 

Will they all follow the honor code of their group? Many will, many will be forced and maybe find themselves in it at the very end, but will not, as they will want to fullfill their own goals, the maybe joined the group to make a shortcut to their own destination.

 

An army of 10 will stand proud in front of their commander in a glorious moment , right before the big war, they will salute and smile, standing there proud of their existence and ready to go to risk their lives for the greater good. They will yell their honor code and rush down the battle. 6 of them will fight like warriors, 2 of them will shoot their opponents in the back unarmed, one will loot corpses for food and desert in a sudden fear and one will shoot civilians for fun when the battle is over.

 

You never know what will the final results be, but you can try your best for the positive ones.

 

Honor codes are powerful and delicate things to handle, because they can easily transform into something undesirable, such as political propaganda for example and can be used again by the transformed malicious structure. Sounds ridiculous, but it is the truth. And in that loop effect, there is no end of the action until the utter destruction of either one opponent.

 

Then you have a problem where the individuals prevale over the leader and the code they followed. That brings disarray and a complet new skeleton under the skin.

 

Evolution of the mankind and ideas in general, found the solution for that one , too.

 

It was named 'anarchy'

 

Hey, let's do what we want to do, we have a leader who will point a finger somewhere, and I will fight with honor there, you , my friend, kill those civilians and loot their house over here and our mutual fellow will cover our backs as he can't take humidity very well.

 

Honor codes depends on certain things.

 

A man who writes them. We can take that one down, if we don't fancy him much, or we can keep that one if we like his ways of dealing with things.

 

The people who will practice and perform the same in any and all conditions and circumstances. We can alert the man above us to make a new selection for the group if some individuals from the group takes their work as a joke or performs in contrary to the code and rules of the group.

 

Aaaaand the intentions of the machinery for which they all work for. Now that one , we can't control. :)

 

That's the group for itself, a special kind. They can change codes in seconds, and millions will follow the new ones, blindly, very often. I know one thing, though... A word 'honor' and the practice of the same is not included in their codes. ;)

 

I was a part of the group once and I followed the code of honor without question and always on the top level.

and I am happy that I saw the same performance from my ex colleagues.

 

I work now as a bodyguard, for quite a few years and I am still happy to see myself following the honor code of my work and honor code of my family. I am satisfied with myself in that way, as I wasn't proud much on myself in my youth.

 

Stay sharp, they are everywhere. ;)

 

Moranda

[grannywils]

I thought that the last two posters although giving different slants on Honor Codes both Did so very well. Aurielius has given an excellent example of how an honor code can and does work in a very structured environment, such as the military or the military school

 

Darius Moranda has gone a step further and taken us into the human psyche and talked more about the human morality involved in trying to establish an honor code and behave under one. At least I believe that is what he was getting at.

 

That would be what I would want to look at. I believe that honor is a personal characteristic. As Aurielius pointed out in some of the Naval Academy rules and how one is expected to behave. We make our own choices (I believe based on who we are). Although the written code might be there for the cadets to follow, they still must make the decision to follow the code. I guess that is how the decision is made on whether or not they get drummed out of the school. i don't really know the rules.

 

But my point really is that if you do not possess moral values enough to have a certain amount of honor in the first place, you may not be able to follow a written code when it is presented to you.

 

Secondly, if your morals are faulty, you may chose to folllow a "code of honor" such as that of Hitler or some other mad man, and feel you are doing absolutely the right thing.

 

So I guess what I am saying is that Honor Codes/Systems as such are written by men/women; therefore dependent on the honor of the writers. We as human beings still need to depend on our own character when it comes down to how we behave when the chips are down.

[DariusMoranda]

I thought that the last two posters although giving different slants on Honor Codes both Did so very well. Aurielius has given an excellent example of how an honor code can and does work in a very structured environment, such as the military or the military school

 

Darius Moranda has gone a step further and taken us into the human psyche and talked more about the human morality involved in trying to establish an honor code and behave under one. At least I believe that is what he was getting at.

 

That would be what I would want to look at. I believe that honor is a personal characteristic. As Aurielius pointed out in some of the Naval Academy rules and how one is expected to behave. We make our own choices (I believe based on who we are). Although the written code might be there for the cadets to follow, they still must make the decision to follow the code. I guess that is how the decision is made on whether or not they get drummed out of the school. i don't really know the rules.

 

But my point really is that if you do not possess moral values enough to have a certain amount of honor in the first place, you may not be able to follow a written code when it is presented to you.

 

Secondly, if your morals are faulty, you may chose to folllow a "code of honor" such as that of Hitler or some other mad man, and feel you are doing absolutely the right thing.

 

So I guess what I am saying is that Honor Codes/Systems as such are written by men/women; therefore dependent on the honor of the writers. We as human beings still need to depend on our own character when it comes down to how we behave when the chips are down.

 

Well said, Grannywils and thank you.

 

That is what I aimed at, the code is always there for you to accept or not, it is your choice and you have to calculate how much you can handle or if you can handle it at all. Some of us follows it for our own reasons, which is selfish and disrespectful. Some of us will follow the code of honor which is heavily judged by the society, such were Hitler's national socialists or Mussolini's fascists, etc.

 

It is our own choice to make, our own figure on the chessboard to make a move and we all make some choices in life, all the time.

 

As for me , there is no right or wrong feeling, but there is a right and wrong action. Words, beliefs, emotions and those things which comes out of our hearts , that desire and ambition is never wrong, it is what we are made of, but our performance can go in a wrong way, that again, depends only on us. ;)

 

The saddest thing is , that the code of honor is being used in these days, as a weapon to sabotage or to destroy an opponent or a point of interest(propaganda),or a shield to prevent dirty little secrets to come out in public, especially it is used as a shield in religious cults and such(brainwashing). And there are many desperate people who will go to the slaughter in the name of someone else, very often, can be seen on the news or elsewhere all the time.

 

In present time, people are victims of propaganda and brainwashing and it is such a sadness to see how we are treated, as a cattle, by who knows who and for what cause.Many of those people aren't gulty for their stupidity, rather are weak and caught with their guard down, either that or simply empty and ignorant, with desire to do harm because of their own lack of satisfaction, using their group as a cover for the dirty work.

 

I feel pity and sorrow for both of those kinds. :(

 

And the people, overall, has degenerated values in today's world, more and more, it reflects on younger population very much, that I see on the streets here where I live, almost every day and night.I don't know... it makes me sad when I encounter such ignorance among the people, but also it makes me proud when I look myself in the mirror when I come back home, that I survived all the outside bad factors and experiences, that I kept my individua untouched as much as it was possible, my identity. :)

 

That is what I followed. Be a part of the group, do everything which is required of you, but do'nt lose your soul in the process. Gte out from there when the time comes and stay a healthy individual with your own code and your honor, rules and tradition.And I would be happy to see it more often in other people, all around the world.

 

Maybe the ancient times are over and the codes of honor are not anymore what they were back then, but that doesn't mean that we can't resurrect it and make a reality out of it, because time maybe has limits life speaking, we all live and die , but the USAGE of that time we have on our hands, has no limits, nor borders.Maybe I am oldfashioned, but I prefer it fair, no matter if I am bare hands and my opponent has a weapon at his hands. The result might be lethal if I perform with courage and if I don't use my mind to get out of it, but I personaly prefer to face the problem in the eyes, then to try to circumvent it, so I can stab in the back or to get a bigger weapon in my hands. I could accept death in honor, but I will never accept life in shame.

 

This time and this life is all what we have and we should make the best of it, within that, we write our own code, every day, anywhere, all the time.

 

It is simple, no matter of the rather complicated construction. Every human must know that making a choice is black or white. Being afraid of result is a natural thing, but one must not hesitate because of the mind poisoned with fear. That is the moment when a human must strike, fast. That is how a decision is being brought.

 

Either you touch the sword, or walk away. If you touch it, be ready to write a code with it and to pay for it,sometimes, too. If you choose to walk away, be ready to ask yourself what would it be if you touched it, maybe it will bring you on another path, where you will write another kind of honor, another type of creation. In both ways, willpower is the key. ;)

 

choice>willpower>dignity>honor

 

No matter to who you belong, belong to yourself at the first place, and do not question your morality or dignity, first question your motives and actions.

 

Live happy and free ;)

 

Moranda

[AliasTheory]

DariusMoranda, all of what you said is beautiful. Couldn't have said it any better myself. Not only have you discussed about the concept of morality and honor in a varied environment, but you have transcended beyond that to truly reach out to us. Extremely well put, especially since you've also covered both sides of the same coin.

 

Everyone passing by should stop for a moment and read what this man has to say. Mind stimulating and provocative.

 

You deserve a kudos for your wisdom.

[DariusMoranda]

DariusMoranda, all of what you said is beautiful. Couldn't have said it any better myself. Not only have you discussed about the concept of morality and honor in a varied environment, but you have transcended beyond that to truly reach out to us. Extremely well put, especially since you've also covered both sides of the same coin.

 

Everyone passing by should stop for a moment and read what this man has to say. Mind stimulating and provocative.

 

You deserve a kudos for your wisdom.

 

I thank you greatly for your compliments, I don't get them often.

 

I am glad that I can participate in such important debates and threads such as this one. It is good to see that people still think about those sacred things which are forgotten and buried under whole this mess we are living in on this planet. Everyone here spoke great and told a lot, I enjoyed the reading of what others written down.

 

I merely spoke honestly, from the heart, rather then giving wisdom, I am a humble guy. That one I can't teach, because we learn wisdom individually. How? By finding out the truth, each one in our own space. ;)

 

I hope that anyone who reads our words here, to forget them quickly, right after the last dot.

 

And to find his/her own to follow, if you know what I mean.Nothing better then when you strike the concrete wall with your own head and to see the result: does the head hurts or the wall got a crack in it. ;) That's the best way to get wisdom in practice, our of the theory which we got or getting in educational institutions.

 

Speaking about honor-

 

It is a great honor for me to be here among good and kind people.

 

Kudos for all! :)

 

Moranda

[AliasTheory]

I hope that anyone who reads our words here, to forget them quickly, right after the last dot.

 

And to find his/her own to follow, if you know what I mean.Nothing better then when you strike the concrete wall with your own head and to see the result: does the head hurts or the wall got a crack in it. ;) That's the best way to get wisdom in practice, our of the theory which we got or getting in educational institutions.

 

 

I wouldn't say forget everything. To some extent your belief has to be based on facts. But I'd say to keep living on with it in consideration until life hits hard. Like, really hard. I'm writing an essay for college right now that says that authentic knowledge to some larger extent comes through self-experience. The educational system to me will give us the building blocks, but ultimately one will need to decide what is really correct and evolve from that when the time comes. Morals and such are very important to me and they should be for everyone. If I cannot find a balance between my academics and social life, then I have failed; we need the very experiences of which you speak of Darius to truly live, succeed and conclusively define us. Honor codes are only a reminder to me.

 

Onward!

[Maharg67]

I am sorry to say that I consider that honour codes were no more stronger or reliable back in past history than they are now. That is to say that some were better than others, were better kept than others, as they are now.

 

I also have a fear of honour codes that are too rigid, that tend to try to force people into the same mould. Such honour codes can easily do more harm than good. There has to be some flex, some form of coming to terms with unusual conditions or situations, with the diversity of individuals, cultures and other influences.

 

There are many groups that have tight honour codes in the world today and not just the US Military though those codes are of different natures to achieve different ends (this is in no way a criticism of the US Military). Some of the buddhist monstaries have tight honour codes, for example

 

I believe in honour codes strongly as a reference point, a way of trying to help judge or understand behaviour or ways of thinking and to make hopefully wiser decisions.

 

Honour codes are but part of any effective system that assists people to be part of a more understanding, secure, equal and compassionate society.

 

:thumbsup: :yes:

[ginnyfizz]

Hmmm. We are coming up to the season of Remembrance, when we honour the dead of the two World Wars and other conflicts, some still ongoing. I shall certainly be wearing my poppy with pride. For is not going to war when you are not directly threatened yourself, but in order to honour a promise that you made, the supreme example of a code of honour in action? In September 1939, Britain and France declared themselves at war with Germany, following Hitler's attack on Poland and refusal to withdraw. They had said they would so declare, and in honour they did so, to see that right should be done.

[Aurielius]

Excerpt of Darius's post:

 

"Waffen SS had an honor code, too. They consider themselves proud knights, they were soldiers for example, coming from personal hygiene, over the skill they posses,loyalty, courage and dedication on the battlefield and overall, in their work.

But they hanged, burned, raped , shot, gassed , tortured, massacred and bayoneted innocent people and POWs for no reason, very often.

Honor codes doesn't define actions of the group. Why?

Because, honor codes are written by a man. The man who propose them and integrates them is an individual, with his own rules and principles. Does the man have good intentions? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Then what about the group which stands above the man? Who are they? They are there, really to follow, to practice, to spread the word, to make themselves proud to be a part of their group, they want to bring good things for it and for the leader, it is their purpose.

Are they all born with the honor in their leukocytes? Not necessarily.

People are different, they think and acti in different ways, has different goals, priorities, etc."

 

@Darius

I very much liked your personalization of the concept of an Honor Code but I think that a differentiation needs to be made between a Code of Honor and an Oath of Loyalty which to the uninitiated may seem to amount to the same thing. The example I would use is the case of Freidrich von Paulus and Erwin Rommel, both Field Marshals were in untenable positions. Von Paulus was becoming encircled at Stalingrad and Rommel had been decimated at el Alemain, both men were given Stand and Die orders by Hitler. Von Paulus true to his Oath of Loyalty stood fast and condemned over 90,000 soldiers to their eventual demise. Rommel given the same order retreated despite the order, true to the Honor Code of the old Imperial Army, he saved over 150,000 of the Afrika Corps to live on after the war's conclusion. Paulus was true to his Oath of Loyalty and Rommel was true to his Code of Honor, the historical judgment of the former is damning and the acclaim of the latter is equaling revealing.

 

Unthinking adherence to any system leads to disaster, the purpose of a Code of Honor is to give structural framework to crisis moments in life. An Honor Code presupposes that it's adherents are honorable persons, without a personal sense of honor any code is worthless. I do not believe that an Honor Code is confined to the military alone, there are many institutions that have a code of conduct that would fall under that auspices. An Honor Code requires an honorable person to function. The Geneva Convention would be an example of a general code of conduct. The conventions are prime example of how when ignored by a signatory is worthless, but when upheld is a humanitarian safeguard. No person, institution or state that lacks a sense of honor will be constrained by any mission statement however noble it is in intent.