"Islamic Extremeist Terrorist", or, Just 'Terrorist'?

[HeyYou]

There are places in Detroit I wouldn't consider walking into, even in powered armor, with an anti-material rifle.......

[Mandamus]

There are places in Detroit I wouldn't consider walking into, even in powered armor, with an anti-material rifle.......

That's a good point. I doubt the state of these places in Detroit can be blamed on islamic extremism and sharia law. Just like in the US, we have derelict/miserable neighborhoods in France. Most of the Sensitive Urban Zones in France are not even that dangerous, they're just very poor. I know some of these neighborhoods very well, and they're certainly not "no go zones." Edited January 15, 2015 by Mandamus

[HeyYou]

 

There are places in Detroit I wouldn't consider walking into, even in powered armor, with an anti-material rifle.......

That's a good point. I doubt the state of these places in Detroit can be blamed on islamic extremism and sharia law. Just like in the US, we have derelict/miserable neighborhoods in France. Most of the Sensitive Urban Zones in France are not even that dangerous, they're just very poor. I know some of these neighborhoods very well, and they're certainly not "no go zones."

 

Nope, no terrorists there, (don't think there are many muslims either..) Just incredibly high crime rate.

[kvnchrist]

We don't have no go zones in France... we do have dangerous neighborhoods, but the police don't ignore them, on the contrary. The article kvnchrist linked to seems to reach the same conclusion.

This was the first paragraph there.

 

They go by the euphemistic term Zones Urbaines Sensibles, or Sensitive Urban Zones, with the even more antiseptic acronym ZUS, and there are 751 of them as of last count. They are conveniently listed on one long webpage, complete with street demarcations and map delineations.

What are they? Those places in France that the French state does not fully control. They range from two zones in the medieval town of Carcassonne to twelve in the heavily Muslim city of Marseilles, with hardly a town in France lacking in its ZUS. The ZUS came into existence in late 1996 and according to a 2004 estimate, nearly 5 million people live in them.

Comment: The proliferation of ZUS suggest that the French state no longer has full control over its territory. (November 14, 2006)

 

 

The comment that a country is in any way not fully in control of territory within it's borders supports more the fact that there are enclaves where those within them are not fully under the protection of the state, which means they are effectively not apart of that state.

[Aurielius]

Duplicate post...,deleted on discovery.

[Aurielius]

duplicate post..deleted.

[Aurielius]

 

 

There are places in Detroit I wouldn't consider walking into, even in powered armor, with an anti-material rifle.......

That's a good point. I doubt the state of these places in Detroit can be blamed on islamic extremism and sharia law. Just like in the US, we have derelict/miserable neighborhoods in France. Most of the Sensitive Urban Zones in France are not even that dangerous, they're just very poor. I know some of these neighborhoods very well, and they're certainly not "no go zones."

 

Nope, no terrorists there, (don't think there are many muslims either..) Just incredibly high crime rate.

 

I think Flint Michigan is the winner....body armor optional. :ermm:

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

There are places in Detroit I wouldn't consider walking into, even in powered armor, with an anti-material rifle.......

That's a good point. I doubt the state of these places in Detroit can be blamed on islamic extremism and sharia law. Just like in the US, we have derelict/miserable neighborhoods in France. Most of the Sensitive Urban Zones in France are not even that dangerous, they're just very poor. I know some of these neighborhoods very well, and they're certainly not "no go zones."

 

Nope, no terrorists there, (don't think there are many muslims either..) Just incredibly high crime rate.

 

I think Flint Michigan is the winner....body armor optional. :ermm:

 

It's a pretty close race. :) I don't think Detroit is the murder capitol of the US any more.... of course, the population dropping more than 50% probably had more than a bit to do with that......

[Mandamus]

This was the first paragraph there.

Did you read the entire article or just the first paragraph from 2006?

Jan. 16, 2013 update: I had an opportunity today to travel at length to several banlieues (suburbs) around Paris, including Sarcelles, Val d'Oise, and Seine Saint Denis. This comes on the heels of having visited over the years the predominantly immigrant (and Muslim) areas of Brussels, Copenhagen, Malmö, Berlin, and Athens.

A couple of observations:

• For a visiting American, these areas are very mild, even dull. We who know the Bronx and Detroit expect urban hell in Europe too, but there things look fine. The immigrant areas are hardly beautiful, but buildings are intact, greenery abounds, and order prevails.
• These are not full-fledged no-go zones but, as the French nomenclature accurately indicates, "sensitive urban zones." In normal times, they are unthreatening, routine places. But they do unpredictably erupt, with car burnings, attacks on representatives of the state (including police), and riots.

Having this first-hand experience, I regret having called these areas no-go zones.

or

My reply:

 

​ I have visited predominantly immigrant (and largely Muslim) areas of Brussels, Copenhagen, Malmö, Stockholm, Berlin, Paris, and Athens.​ In the case of Paris, I spent time both in Belleville and in such suburbs as Sarcelles, Val d'Oise, and Seine Saint Denis.

Before my travels, I expected these areas to be similar to the worst areas of the United States, such as the Bronx or Detroit, where buildings are decrepit, streets menacing, and outsiders feel distinctly unwelcome.

My experiences starting in 2007 belied this expectation. All the immigrant areas turned out to be well maintained, with safe streets, and no sense of intimidation. I walked around, usually with camera in hand, and felt at ease. I encountered no difficulties at all.

That said, there is a reason why the French government calls these regions sensibles (sensitive, delicate). They contain many social pathologies (unemployment, drugs, political extremism), they seethe with antagonism toward the majority society, and are prone to outbreaks of violence.

So, from an American point of view, these areas are a bit confusing: potentially dangerous, yes, but in normal times very ordinary looking and with no sense of foreboding. Thus, the term no-go zone does not accurately reflect the situation.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Mandamus

[kvnchrist]

 

This was the first paragraph there.

Did you read the entire article or just the first paragraph from 2006?

Jan. 16, 2013 update: I had an opportunity today to travel at length to several banlieues (suburbs) around Paris, including Sarcelles, Val d'Oise, and Seine Saint Denis. This comes on the heels of having visited over the years the predominantly immigrant (and Muslim) areas of Brussels, Copenhagen, Malmö, Berlin, and Athens.

A couple of observations:

• For a visiting American, these areas are very mild, even dull. We who know the Bronx and Detroit expect urban hell in Europe too, but there things look fine. The immigrant areas are hardly beautiful, but buildings are intact, greenery abounds, and order prevails.
• These are not full-fledged no-go zones but, as the French nomenclature accurately indicates, "sensitive urban zones." In normal times, they are unthreatening, routine places. But they do unpredictably erupt, with car burnings, attacks on representatives of the state (including police), and riots.

Having this first-hand experience, I regret having called these areas no-go zones.

or

My reply:

 

​ I have visited predominantly immigrant (and largely Muslim) areas of Brussels, Copenhagen, Malmö, Stockholm, Berlin, Paris, and Athens.​ In the case of Paris, I spent time both in Belleville and in such suburbs as Sarcelles, Val d'Oise, and Seine Saint Denis.

Before my travels, I expected these areas to be similar to the worst areas of the United States, such as the Bronx or Detroit, where buildings are decrepit, streets menacing, and outsiders feel distinctly unwelcome.

My experiences starting in 2007 belied this expectation. All the immigrant areas turned out to be well maintained, with safe streets, and no sense of intimidation. I walked around, usually with camera in hand, and felt at ease. I encountered no difficulties at all.

That said, there is a reason why the French government calls these regions sensibles (sensitive, delicate). They contain many social pathologies (unemployment, drugs, political extremism), they seethe with antagonism toward the majority society, and are prone to outbreaks of violence.

So, from an American point of view, these areas are a bit confusing: potentially dangerous, yes, but in normal times very ordinary looking and with no sense of foreboding. Thus, the term no-go zone does not accurately reflect the situation.

 

 

 

He is talking about the difference between criminal and cultural. America has it's places where it is dangerous to go because of the violence there. This is how he is making his distinction there. Cultural no-go areas need not be violent, especially to outsiders. They are areas where the outside world is shunned and the populous are extremely hesitant to give information to those outside the community.

 

This is strangling absorption into the host community and sets up a country within a country. It provides a safe haven for those who spread fear and distrust, which is the sharp edge of the chisel which separates one group from another.