Do you think BethSoft should stop Elder Scrolls and start fresh?

[DrunkenGamer]

Hear me out here.

 

Most of us can agree that the developers of Morrowind and Oblivion have basically raped the Lore of the Elder Scrolls world back and forth, inside and out. Okay, so that's an exaggeration.

 

My point is, there isn't much of a continuum here, and the direction of the Elder Scroll games seems to have been flawed from the very beginning. I know the stories weren't really supposed to connect in a lot of ways, but THIS is ridiculous! Thus, my question: would it be better to try to amend this error within the series (via retcon, future games), or to drop ES and start anew?

 

I think that the latter option is best for BethSoft, to create a new series much like Elder Scroll, only actually putting time and effort into it. I'm not asking for PC exclusivity, but just more time and effort. The rushed feeling of Oblivion did not help the Elder Scrolls franchise. Morrowind was a grand effort, but in today's market it doesn't really do well. Oblivion was a step away from the grandness, the exploration, the action, the story, the people within. It delved more and more into the hack & slash realm, a realm that doesn't really fit the Elder Scroll games' appeal.

 

We play TES because of the immersion, the expansive gameworld, the myriad of characters, their personalities, the action and the exploration combined. Oblivion was gutted of everything that made Morrowind what it was.

 

What I'm offering as an idea here is a different series that moves more into the sandbox game world, but still retains everything that Morrowind had with Oblivion's accessiblity.

 

What are your thoughts on the matter?

[Ferryt]

I think that Bethesda should seriously consider a total remake of ES. There are things they did right with Oblivion. The look and feel of the gameworld is where they were right on with their vision for the game. Unfortunately, they sacrificed gameplay for what amounts to just a cosmetic attempt to impress easily-impressed teenagers and introduced what I consider to be a serious game flaw to further that goal -- we can see "forever". I don't want to see forever. I think most of us probably quit gawking at the distant scenery the first time we were ambushed by a mudcrab.

 

I'd like to see Bethesda re-design Tamriel -- the whole thing -- every single province. Make it bigger. My whole feeling of immersion was almost shattered when I realized that the whole of Cyrodiil would be lost if you dropped it into any mid-sized U.S. city. I came into FPS/RP video gaming via. Half-Life 2. That's a pretty big gaming world, and it actually feels like it, although much of it is a matter of twists and turns on a map that you just can't see in entirety from any given point. My next experience in this genre of games was Borderlands, and you can't deny how massive Pandora is, especially when you wind up driving interminably in the Knoxx DLC. That game handled things differently from HL2, though. In Borderlands you run into transfer points where you have to activate something to get to the next section, and then you sit through a loading screen. In HL2 the transition from one area to the next was nearly seamless, with just a notification that the next area was loading, and you could still see into that area even before it was loaded. What if Bethesda used that system for loading areas? Tamriel could be much, much larger, at the expense of being able to see Imperial City from Bruma. Seriously ... I won't miss the vista that much for that trade-off.

 

I wouldn't even want, necessarily, to get all of Tamriel in one shot. Release each province as a separate DLC. That would give them time to work on them while we're busy playing in the ones already released. By making it a single game, though, rather than separate games with separate visions and separate target audiences, everything would use the same game system and adhere to the same lore. There would be continuity between the "modules". It would feel like a real world. Much of what is already created for Morrowind and Oblivion could be maintained. The work has already been done on meshes and textures and they could be merged with a little tweaking to give a "core" game that would keep all of us busy until the next province was released. And, most importantly, it would need to be targeted to a more mature, intelligent audience than they did with Oblivion -- no hand-holding, no dumbing down, less of the hack & slash mentality, smarter AI, more diverse NPCs. It can be done with the tools they already have. It could probably be done with the developers they already have. They just all need to be on the same page, which anyone who has played around with the CS for any length of time knows wasn't the case with Oblivion -- clearly a project by committee with the subcommittees communicating very little, if at all, with each other.

 

Alternatively, yes ... a completely different project would work, too. Throw out ES entirely. Start from scratch. Do it right from the outset and maintain consistency and continuity if they feel they really have to release the world as a series of games rather than as one game.

[Eiries]

I love the Elder Scrolls series far too much. In a perfect world, I'd like to see them create something truly rich and fantastic. Not like Oblivion isn't but... well... it isn't. Too generic.

 

Pretty much what Ferryt said. I like her. Speaks my thoughts. XD

[WeissYohji]

I love Oblivion as much as the next fellow, but I do agree with much of what Ferryt said. Release ALL of Tamriel, and make things more realistic. Something's wrong when Tamriel's supposed to be the size of Europe and yet you can see the Imperial City all the way from Bruma or thereabouts, and when you can easily fit Cyrodiil alone inside Delaware, Rhode Island, Connecticut, or Washington, D.C. (Speaking of IC, why such a lame name for a city? Why not just name it after some important historical figure or use whatever name the Ayleids used before?) Also, the cities themselves. They're barely the size of neighborhoods, which cannot even be called cities by themselves unless you're in Tokyo or New York City.

 

Add some more gorgeous scenery. (Look at Unique Landscapes. Bethesda should hire some of the people who made that mod--someone on that team seems to know what they're doing!)

 

Get rid of the goddamn breasts on Argonian women! They're REPTILES, for Christ sakes! Reptiles can't lactate!

 

Put digitigrade feet on the Khajiit like we had in Morrowind. And add all the different strains of the beast races. Why give us only Suthay-raht Khajiit to play with, or Argonians who look like an extension of that guy with the lizard tattoos? (As for the feet issue, Ohmes and Ohmes-raht can get away with plantigrade feet, being the most humanoid strains, as we saw in Arena and Daggerfall. Argonians can get away with it too save for a few strains, given that modern IRL reptiles have plantigrade feet.)

 

Put more body types in the game! How is it immersive and realistic when there's no fat, tall, short (Except for Bosmer), skinny, or muscular people running around? Nor is there any reason why we can't have children running around in the game. Screw the moral guardians' bitching and whining! How can it be realistic when you've got nothing but adults running around?

 

Give the Redguards their own separate skin texture! Every time I've made a dark-skinned Redguard character, it always came out with discolorations in the nose, chin, and around the eyes. What the hell were they thinking making Redguards and Imperials share the same skin texture? If Redguards are supposed to be the equivalent of IRL black people, make them look like it!

 

While we're at it on the race issue, we look at the four playable human races. You've got one black race, and the rest are all white! Why the hell don't we have other types of humans? At least put in equivalents of Asians, Arabs, Hispanics, and both kinds of Indians!

 

Going back to the geography problem, why stop with just Tamriel? We've never seen Atmora, Esroniet, Pyandonea, Akavir, Roscrea, Yneslea, Thras, or the remains of Yokuda!

 

Put spears and crossbows back in. There was no legitimate reason for them to be removed after Morrowind! I can understand removing levitation, but removing spears and crossbows and omitting horse combat was a bad move. Also, how is an axe a blunt weapon when it clearly has a big f***ing blade? If you're going to merge axes with another weapon type, put it with blade!

 

Gore. Hire the guys behind Deadly Reflex to design and animate it. I'm sure they know what they're doing. And don't tell us the system can't handle it, because that's a damn lie. We hacked guys to pieces in Turok 2 and Bio FREAKS 12 years ago on the N64, and that was a much less powerful system. Or the combat in Bushido Blade on the PS1, where you could kill someone in just one hit by cutting their head off or otherwise getting in a critical hit on them. If those games can handle it, so can Oblivion!

 

Idiot AI. Fix it yesterday! There's no reason why bandits should prioritize your horse over you, or even why you should not be able to order Farwil to stay in some safe area while you go ahead and clear a Sigil Keep of daedra rather than have him jump in like a dumbass and get himself killed. Nor is there any reason why enemies should not be able to aim their arrows and spells at you when you're on higher ground, or for NPCs to just walk in place into walls!

 

The tutorial. Fine for new players, but why can't we more experienced people just turn it off? What the hell do they think is going to happen?

 

The glitches. Test your game before you release it! How the hell did they let game-ruining glitches get through? What happened to things such as STANDARDS and QUALITY CONTROL? Note to Bethesda: DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME OR DON'T DO IT AT ALL. Take a lesson from Nintendo--they take their time with things instead of rushing their games. Ditto Square-Enix--it was worth the wait for every Final Fantasy game ever released because you knew they were working their asses off to make sure they didn't come out as obvious betas like what we got with Daggerfall. But as history (And the Angry Video Game Nerd) has proven, not all glitches are bad. Sometimes they can be helpful or just fun Easter eggs.

 

Leveling. Take a lesson from Francesco's overhaul or Oscuro's overhaul and get rid of this level-scaling crap. It makes zero sense for bandits to have mithril, glass, elven, ebony, or daedric armor.

[David Brasher]

I would not mind if the next Elder Scrolls game is not an Elder Scrolls game. What I love is the game engine and style of play. If they put the adventure into an entirely new world with no baggage of conflicting lore, it would be fine with me.

 

But that wouldn't work, because as soon as the game had been out for awhile, people would start adding Oblivion and Morrowind content to it. But it is all in good fun.

[LordWushin]

I love Bethsoft just for the TES games! FO3 and FO:NV were and is good but not like Oblivion is. I would like Tes to continue but with improvements and not hastiness.

 

Imagine Morrowind and Oblivion together to equal one game, NOT in story but in the gameplay and stuff. The variety and lore of morrowind with the graphics and physics of oblivion with improvements that is what I am talking about. A totally new and epic story with a new twist that is ... well new and different from the rest but in a good way.

 

The next TES game is going to be great no matter how it come out, and I will buy it just because I love the series. Except if it has steam like this new Fallout >:( :wallbash: :confused:

[luxwing0go]

I feel like a n00b for admitting I have not played any Elder Scrolls game besides Oblivion, but from the comparisons I have seen between Oblivion and Morrowind, it did seem like the developers were more interested in a game that 'looked good' over immersion and actual gameplay. Sure, it looks great - but couldn't you have paid for more than four voice actors? Couldn't you have given a bit more TLC to the Kahjiits, Redguards and Dremoras? Heck, even the Nords need work! I'm sure no one would still be playing it if it were not for mods.

 

I kinda feel that Shivering Isles had more originality in it than vanilla Oblivion...(don't kill me...)

 

Starting something new that springs from the same roots as Elder Scrolls, i.e., a sword and magic type RPG, would be nice. Something on the other side of the Elder Scrolls planet. Or heck, something in another realm completely! But, I would like to see how Elder Scrolls V turns out. Maybe it will change our minds...or maybe not. We will certainly see.

 

On another hand, a remake of the first Elder Scrolls may not be a bad idea. Maybe for the 3DS or PSP?

[WeissYohji]

I feel like a n00b for admitting I have not played any Elder Scrolls game besides Oblivion, but from the comparisons I have seen between Oblivion and Morrowind, it did seem like the developers were more interested in a game that 'looked good' over immersion and actual gameplay. Sure, it looks great - but couldn't you have paid for more than four voice actors? Couldn't you have given a bit more TLC to the Kahjiits, Redguards and Dremoras? Heck, even the Nords need work! I'm sure no one would still be playing it if it were not for mods.

 

I kinda feel that Shivering Isles had more originality in it than vanilla Oblivion...(don't kill me...)

 

Starting something new that springs from the same roots as Elder Scrolls, i.e., a sword and magic type RPG, would be nice. Something on the other side of the Elder Scrolls planet. Or heck, something in another realm completely! But, I would like to see how Elder Scrolls V turns out. Maybe it will change our minds...or maybe not. We will certainly see.

 

On another hand, a remake of the first Elder Scrolls may not be a bad idea. Maybe for the 3DS or PSP?

 

I'm in the same boat as you, so don't worry about it. I've only played Oblivion, but boned up on the lore via the UESP wiki and TV Tropes.

 

Voice acting: Looks like Patrick "Captain Picard" Stewart ate up much of the budget. But they could've at least pulled in some voice actors from anime dubs and other video games. I'd have loved to hear Vic Mignogna, Steven Blum, Brad Swaile, Hillary Haag, Johnny Yong Bosch, Kelly Sheridan, Liam O'Brien, Wendee Lee, Kirk Thornton, Chris Patton, Richard Ian Cox, Jamieson Price, and others in Oblivion. (They could always avoid the problem of flying these people from California, Texas, or Canada via online recording or phone patches.) They certainly could use the work in this economy. Seriously, getting only one guy to voice all the elven men? It's too repetitive. Or one dude voicing all the male Redguards? (Kudos for getting Linda "Wonder Woman" Carter, though.)

 

Throwing out ES altogether? Big no. Even if you started a whole new series from scratch, people would just make mods adding in stuff from Morrowind and Oblivion.