New distribution permissions options for all files

[crippknottick]

http://home.insightbb.com/~ljhinc/images/misc/flaguse.jpg

 

cheers

I like the graphics you have there. Dark0ne, please use these.

[holbrook]

@extr3m3

Authors can protect themselves even being MIA for years very easily....by saying permission must be given to use their mod.

that's wonderful and all, but despite their option to clarify; saying nothing leaves us with only the option to assume we do not have permission rather than to assume we do.

 

the fact is that there are several ways to fail to gain permission from someone, but there is only ONE way to be given permission, and that's by having them tell you it has been granted.

 

if you haven't been informed by them that you have permission, you simply do not possess it.

 

the truth of this exists irregardless of whether they would react negatively to your actions or be fine with them.

 

Your pop machine analogy doesn't fit because there IS stipulations to getting a soda....the .50 cents.

it does fit- the corresponding stipulation of having "50 cents" is having "permission"; that's the price of admission.

 

without having what you need, it's impossible to get what you want. what we have needed has always been clear, and what we've wanted has always been clear; it's what we possess that people are fuzzy on.

 

@mur_zik

 

cheers~

 

@ginnyfizz

 

thank you <3

 

@dark0one

 

...

 

every post i've made that was more than 2 or 3 lines long has included a "TLDR" summation at the end since you first requested it.

 

though admittedly i did this less in the interest of being "polite" and more because i thought reading the short version would convince you to read my words in full.

 

it's slightly discouraging to hear you "can't be bothered" considering the last two "walls" of text are directly addressing you. perhaps i'm doomed to go unheard by the only person i held concern about reading it, but despite what my intentions are; i can't justify sacrificing the ability to explain and rationalize my points just for the sake of making sure people don't have to use their mouse wheel.

 

whether it be from an easy to read and understand message going unread or a small message that doesn't concisely illustrate the point i'm attempting to make, which warranted me bothering to write in the first place; it's a tragedy either way.

 

it sits better with me to have you not read it than to have me not write it; not being heard is better than not being voiced.

 

v

>////////////////////////TLDR//////////////////////<

^

 

something tells me you'll notice it this time, but i've actually included one of these in every reply of significant length since the moment you requested it of me.

 

it wasn't for my benefit that i have posted on this thread, nor did a lack of having something worth saying give rise to having more than 1 sentence. if it goes unread then that's simply a pity. (it's also the 4th instance of irony) while i assure you that the 2nd to last "wall" existed primarily to try and help, and the last "wall" being there to urge you to reconsider whether you're making the best decision by changing policy; my posts could have contained racial insults, sexist comments, and links to pirated software among other things that would lead to my being banned, and you'd just never know. (that by the way is not what is ironic) though i'd imagine if you read the last wall you might have decided to ban me for my "insolence" of questioning your better judgment anyway; though bear in mind that that's not my underhanded attempt at baiting you into reading it at this point.

 

yeah... i do want you to read the last two "walls", but not if you aren't concerned with what i have to say, and not if it's going to be seen as a "bother" to you; i didn't go through the trouble of collecting my thoughts simply to cause grief.

 

alas, i've breached 4 paragraphs in this post too, but i know what to expect this time around at least. sorry to have been a bother.

Edited October 31, 2010 by holbrook

[Khettienna]

Dark0ne, thank you. =)

[XTR3M368]

Yes Dark0ne, thank you. If you don't mind, I think I might add this quote by you to my signature. I LOL'd when I read it.

 

"Don't just blow hot air because you can."

 

So appropriate and I find that it applies to me sometimes as well. :P

[bben46]

@holbrok

What you are demanding is a tome the size of War and Peace for our TOS. :rolleyes:It ain't gonna happen. :whistling: As much as you lawyer types love masses of convoluted written rules to cover every implausible circumstance, we normal people prefer to operate on a common sense basis. We will deal with the contradictions when and if they happen on a needed basis. If an original author asks for a mod to be removed because they suddenly decided their own policy on use has suddenly changed after 3 years - we will find a way to work with them. And without hard wired stipulations that state - You must do it this way and this way only.

 

The way you get things done is to talk to the people involved, find some common ground, give some, get some. if you do this for me, I'll do that for you. What if we do it this way instead? Try to avoid actual confrontation if you can.

[holbrook]

demanding?

 

that word gives me the impression that (in growing trend with the staff); you either didn't actually read what i wrote, or deemed it was easier to simply dismiss my reply in whole rather than confront any of the points i've raised within it. though i do appreciate receiving implications that what i posted was read; all things considered, i think i'd just as well prefer it actually was read~

 

what i was suggesting was that the below statement, which is stated by none other than Dark0ne himself, both at the very start of this thread and any day prior to it... a statement that we were all assured would continue holding true no more than even a day ago; is a statement i suggested continues to remain true.

...other users don't have the right to do whatever they want with your assets unless you specifically say so.

now this rule which has stood for what... 7 years? is suddenly being changed to...

...other users have the right to do whatever they want with your assets unless you specifically say not to.

now think about this... site policy just did a complete 180 on their standpoint for modder's rights as you call them; does it really seem so outlandish when you bear that in mind for me to question such a rash and unexpected decision?

 

if you had read my words, you would have discovered that i was only urging the reconsideration of the decision to alter a tried and true policy that this site (and just about any other site of decency) has always operated under.

 

the neat thing is that if you do that; then you don't have to change a single word in the ToS. however if you do change policy, (and as to what my post had actually said), then you get the pleasure of informing every author ever to post their work on this site that what was "said and agreed to" in the ToS was only partially true, no longer honored, and is being changed.

As much as you lawyer types love masses of convoluted written rules to cover every implausible circumstance, we normal people prefer to operate on a common sense basis.

you mean common sense such as "no permission; no upload"? as much as it might appeal to you to be able to pass me off with utter disregard by labeling me a "lawyer type" who likes to insist upon masses of convoluted rules; the words i have posted say nothing about how i would enjoy seeing any addendum's whatsoever to the ToS, or enjoy changing the existing ToS into a confusing mess.

 

since the beginning, all my words have revolved around one thing, which will also be the 5th irony thus far (for those keeping track), if it ends up that all the people who preached "no permission; no upload" to us all these years now looks at me like i'm some kind of a lunatic for repeating those exact words.

 

in short, what you should have seen, was that what you're saying is "my hard wired stipulation that states you must do it this way and this way only" has actually been your hard wired stipulation all along; since the very beginning.

 

the new policy is the only source of convolution here; backed by the simple fact that the new policy tells us we may post someone else's work without permission under certain (convoluted) circumstances, but without disclosing to us what those circumstances actually are, it leaves us as users without the ability to know whether or not we are even following or breaking the rules when doing so.

 

it is ludicrous that a policy just went into effect where 2 users doing the exact same things could lead to one member being banned and the other applauded, but it is far more ludicrous that a policy regarding permissions just did a complete 180; diminishing the rights of modders and in exchange empowering other people to use a modder's work without needing consent on a site that is "extremely pro modders rights".

 

TLDR - why are you suddenly going back on your word now?

 

there's no way of getting around the fact that you have, but in light of it- do you actually believe this is a "good" decision, or is lifting the rule simply the "easy" way of dealing with people who don't care to follow those rules?

 

sincerely,

 

a concerned and longstanding fan

Edited October 31, 2010 by holbrook

[Scarecrow23]

Please use the shift key if you're gonna write a dissertation every post.

[ginnyfizz]

Is there really any need to make disparaging remarks about lawyer types? Speaking as one myself. Even though we fundamentally disagree, let's try and be civil. There is no getting around the fact that, as stated by Holbrook, there appears to have been some grey area appeared.

 

The waters have been very much muddied by this. As this garrulous lawyer type has said and Holbrook has re-iterated, it would actually be much easier and require no change to the TOS to say "If in doubt, ask, and if the answer is silence (for whatever reason)then don't use those assets."

[holbrook]

Please use the shift key if you're gonna write a dissertation every post.

please avoid the use of improper words if you're going to critique the improper grammar of my dissertations.

 

which is another way of saying, yeah i'll get right on that just as soon as your post magically becomes a worthwhile contribution to the thread and not a childish attempt to be cute and make unnecessary quips at others in order to feel important.

 

TLDR

 

no.

Just like real life, in fact.

or as "lawyer types" might say, "because this is in fact a real life application of one's efforts the same as any other endeavor".

 

the thing that really bothers me now that it comes to mind, is that changing the policy in a rush displays a lack of faith for the new permission system to even work or aid in combating ignorance/negligence.

 

shouldn't it have a significant span of time to test its effectiveness before resorting to such a change of heart as to say "not knowing the truth for certain shall now be good enough for you to pretend you did."?

 

for the files of authors that are no longer here to defend themselves or their work, it doesn't change a single outcome with or without this system if the policies suddenly double over and no longer provide protection to them.

 

if the goal of this system is to help stop people from uploading things without permission, how is telling them they no longer need permission for a majority of files supposed to further that cause?

Edited October 31, 2010 by holbrook

[Dark0ne]

This sort of reaction is actually one of the reasons why we don't clarify the grey areas that much. There hasn't been any change in policy at all. This policy is the exact unwritten policy that we've used for ever on Morrowind Source, TESSource and all the Nexus sites. You just didn't know it and the moderators barely ever discussed it because it barely ever came up.

 

You guys are unaffected by it. I've already said that I know of no instance where this policy has been a problem in 9 years. And still it becomes a hot topic. That's the hot air I'm talking about.

 

@Holbrook; while I appreciate that what you have to say may well be great, the way you type and portray your comments grinds against my ability to stay focused. You need to paragraph better. As it is your posts have crazy amounts of paragraphs in them. Group up what you say and summarise it in to blocked paragraphs, rather than one line paragraphs.