Halp getting started

[Rangaros]

I see, so I just get a base texture replacer first and then whatever Seamless and OCO don't cover will fall back to that.

 

Well I'm pretty covered so far, no immediate issues at sight, so I'll just keep working with this and maybe pester you some more later if something else comes up :tongue:

 

Edit: Well that was quick, lol. Not really a problem so no big deal. But I was wondering if there's a way to know which files are which items in-game. Specifically, I wanted to know what all these lowerclass, middleclass and upperclass clothing meshes correspond to, since the folders are just called 01, 02, 03... I'd like to know if there's a way to know which folder contains which shirt/pants. Some chart somewhere or something, dunno.

 

 

Edit 2: Right! So after hours of checking and comparing different body parts I finally made a selection. Now, I'd like to make a little check-up of the package order I have in mind, since there's a lot of little patches and whatnot. So my idea was:

 

HGEC body meshes

HGEC body textures

HGEC E-Cup stock (I'm using the E-Cup stock from EVE as a base)

Robert Male

OCO v2

HGEC - OCO compatibility patch

Robert - OCO compatibility patch

Seamless OCO

Seamless HGEC E-Cup stock (again, using EVE as a base)

Seamless BBB HGEC E-Cup stock (same deal)

HGEC H-Cup stock (so this replaces some of the E-Cup above, I don't think it's seamless but it shouldn't be a problem right? I mean, a problem for the install order)

Seamless Robert Male

Seamless MOO (haven't even tested this one yet)

And finally patches I found to replace individual things: HGEC Khajiit Face for OCOv2, Exlorians Khajiit Tail for HGEC and OCO2 Khajiit High-res eye textures. I suppose these have to go last since they are meant to replace things.

 

Is that alright? Any suggestions?

Edited March 30, 2015 by Rangaros

[Striker879]

Other than going through all the clothes in the Construction Set I haven't ever run across any resource for linking a piece of clothing's name to the folder names. Here's my list, but it may be incomplete in some respects ... note that Bethesda went el cheapo deluxe on many things with the game, so items listed that cover the same body slot with different names all use the same mesh/textures and will sometimes have different stats (mostly zero weight or enchanted is the difference):

 

Lower Class

01 - Blacksmith apron

Blacksmith pants

Heinrick's pants

Apron of the Master Artisan

 

02 - Dark green shirt

Laced leather pants

Acrobatic pants

Resist cold pants

 

03 - Huntsman's vest

Huntsman's pants

Light armor vest

Vest of Warding

 

04 - Coarse linen shirt

Coarse linens

 

05 - Sack cloth shirt

Sack cloth pants

Tattered shirt

Tattered pants

Pants (Jail pants)

Shirt (Jail shirt)

 

06 - Collared shirt

Green felt linens

 

07 - Shirt with suspenders

Breeches

 

08 - Belted vest

Belted braies

 

09 - Fishing waders

Child overalls

 

10 - Patched vest

 

11 - Green wool shirt

 

12 - Olive vest

Pinarus' shirt

 

13 - Stitched green shirt

 

14 - Burlap vest

 

15 - Flax tunic

 

LC Beggar - Beggar's shirt

 

Middle Class

 

01 - Brown shirt

Light brown linens

 

02 - Quilted doublet

Tan linens

Marksman Quilted doublet

Fortify Fatigue pants

Fortify Magicka pants

Resist Normal Weapons Quilted doublet

 

03 - Blue and Green outfit

Resist Poison Blue and Green outfit

 

04 - Burgundy linen shirt

Burgundy linens

Resist Disease Burgundy linen shirt

Resist Fire Burgundy linens

 

05 - Russet felt outfit

Security Russet felt shirt

Russet felt shirt of Blade Turning

 

06 - Dark shirt (aka MC Shirt Sneaky)

 

07 - Blue Collar shirt

Ernest's Best shirt

Shop Keeper's shirt

 

08 - Shirt with Suspenders

Heinrick's shirt

 

09 - Plaid shirt (aka MC Shirt Hobbit)

 

10 - Forrester's shirt

 

Upper Class

 

01 - Green Brocade doublet

Green Silk garment

 

02 - Black and Burgundy outfit

 

03 - Blue Velvet outfit

 

04 - Red Velvet blouse

Red Velvet garment

 

05 - Red Velvet outfit

 

06 - Blue Silk shirt

Blue Silks

 

07 - Highwayman's shirt

 

None of the H-cup versions are seamless. If you find one that you don't like the seams just replace it again with the seamless version ... with pure replacers (no ESP) there can only be one size of each piece.

 

As far as I can see your order looks good ... just remember to take the footfemale.dds and footfemale_n.dds files OUT of the Textures\characters\khajiit\female folder BEFORE you merge in the OCO v2 extracted download (or just replace those two files with the ones from your HGEC base again after OCO v2 has overwritten them with vanilla versions).

[Rangaros]

Oh, right, I forgot about that. Well I was gonna realize when I saw it anyway, lol.

 

And thanks for that list, that's gonna be useful.

 

 

Edit: Say, BAIN wizards are simply a way of picking subpackages, right? It's the same if I just pick them manually? Cause I noticed Robert's subpackages, unlike any other I've seen, actually overwrite stuff from each other, so I suppose that means the order in which they get installed matters (unless what they are overwriting is the same in all of them). So I'm a bit afraid of picking stuff manually and potentially mess something up because of that, figured the wizard knows what to do best, lol.

 

 

Edit 2: Well, been testing thanks to the numbers you gave me, and I gotta say, the stock in HGEC Bouncing Stock Clothing Project is most definitelly not H-Cup. I tested with 4 different things that it changes (Lower Class 05, 06, 07 and 09), and while I do notice changes (using screenshots with identical zoom and angle), it's not really cup size. One or two seem to have very slightly bigger cup size (like from E to F at most), and most have other differences, like the sleeves being bigger and whatnot. But the actual cup size looks widely unchanged from EVE's E-Cup.

 

So that's my experience with that, just to inform you really. I think I'll just be using base EVE stock (which has the bonus of having Seamless for it) with the few stuff from BBB H-cup Stock on top of it.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Rangaros

[Rangaros]

Well, I still don't fully understand things, but somehow I got it all working fine, and even better than I thought.

 

The MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp from Robert's, I actually still have it active and merged, and it doesn't seem to conflict with anything. Why? Well because I was trying stuff in little steps, so I actually used both Robert's esp and the EVE_KhajiitFix.esp along the way, to make things looked right while I tested, and then I would remove them later when I didn't need them anymore. The Khajiit fix I was able to disable it as soon as I installed OCO and then replaced the footfemale.dds manually, but somehow I still needed Robert's esp or male Khajiit textures would still be messed up. I noticed I ONLY have RTfootmale.dds and RTfootmale_n.dds in the male Khajiit folder, so dunno if that's normal or something got messed up. I'm gonna try and unmerge and disable Robert's esp, but I have a feeling I actually need it, since otherwise there's nothing telling the game to use the RT files.

 

Edit: Yep, I do still need the MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp to have proper male Khajiit textures. I also checked and I actually don't have ANY footmale.dds in a Khajiit folder in my whole Bain Installers folder, so I guess it's okay that I only have the RT ones, but then dunno what the heck was different before, when I actually had to disable the esp... This is so weird.

 

Edit 2: And as I thought, if I manually rename the RT files and remove the RT part, now it actually works fine without Robert's esp. How the heck did this all happen that I have to manually do that?

 

And I said better than I thought cause those little extra patches (for Khajiit tail and heads) were both different from I thought. I thought there was only one Khajiit tail texture for both genders, so it'd replace the male one too, but no, so now both male and female tails match their bodies. And I thought the head patch was for only female, but it turns out Khajiit head texture is only one for both genders, so now both heads look nicer too, lol, at least for my taste. So it was an unexpected win-win.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Rangaros

[IkeCoast]

Hey, Rangaros!

 

If you rename the RTfootmale files to simply footmale, you won't need anymore the RobMale esp.

 

This is a trick well known at the OCO Comments page, I assumed you already knew that.

 

You having only these two files in the Khajiit male folder is normal, since you did not install Robert Female. The extra footmale files that are actually the female files come from RobFem.

 

You have enormously advanced towards an in-deep understanding about how manually modding and swapping files works. Using mod managers and installers is really convenient and useful, but never will let you build a modded game to your finest tastes and desires. Manually modding does.

 

For instance, I give my males as much attention as you and Striker give to your females, varying the in-game body tipes according races, and even giving some of them different tackle shapes and sizes, not to mention body hair. This would be impossible if I relied only in finished, ready-to install mods.

 

Cheers!

[Rangaros]

Yeah, doing things manually lets you see exactly what is where, you learn more for sure. But my problem is then remembering exactly what I did in case I wanna backtrack it. Remember the footfemale.dds problem with OCO? I actually made it into a "mod" of sorts. Just a simple mod folder with the right directory inside and only those two dds files, and then installed it as any normal mod on top of the rest. Honestly I prefer to have stuff installed with a mod manager so I can see exactly all the steps I took, and I can also undo them easily by uninstalling them. Also I rename mod folders following my own naming convention, to know exactly what is what.

 

I think a healthy balance is what I'd prefer. Doing some things manually to learn, but then using some mod manager to ease the work

 

I still don't get why this didn't happen before, though. Back then when I was using the mods in their "standard" form (and not in their current Frankenstein take-what-I-want-from-each-and-make-my-own-folders), I actually had to disable the MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp, and I didn't have to rename any files. Just installing things in order and not using that esp had it all working fine. I just dunno where the heck I was getting those footmale files then.

Literally the ONLY Khajiit footmale.dds among every single mod folder I currently have, is one in the HGEC mod (ironically... why is there a male texture file on a HGEC mod?), and it actually is an exact copy of the footfemale.dds. So that would have been weird to see...

 

It's like, the more I understand how to do things manually, the less I understand how things worked back then when I didn't.

[Striker879]

There is a footmale.dds in the HGEC because Bethesda went el cheapo deluxe and used male textures for both male and female Khajiit. As I said previously, we will be stuck with the "Khajiit problem" for all time as it's permanently embedded in the game.

 

Think you have a documentation problem ... ha!

 

Ike and I have replaced individual NPCs bodies and textures with a wide variety (even wider since SetBody Reloaded Blockhead Edition came out). Before it was released I'd use different body meshes I've accumulated over the years. None of those were seamless (hadn't been invented yet). I never documented which body I applied to which NPC, it never even occurred to me to do so as I wasn't going to change them back. Now I want to use seamless versions.

 

Needless to say as I find out which body I used and then apply the seamless version I'm keeping a list.

[Rangaros]

But then EVE doesn't have that footmale.dds, why doesn't it need it? I suppose the normal HGEC would replace male textures (with the same one as female), while EVE doesn't and the game would simply use the vanilla one?

 

Yeah I think I'm just gonna "let the past be past" and stop thinking about why or how things worked differently before. I'll just apply the knowledge I have now to solving the problems I have now.

 

Oh, on that note, I realized that Khajiit eye texture wasn't working cause the folder is mistakenly named "character" instead of "characters", lol. Makes me shiver thinking of the millions of folder and file names there's out there in mods, and how they all have to be absolutely exact to work.

[IkeCoast]

I usually take notes in a notebook (a paper one, with a pen), about what I did and with which mesh I did and to whom I did that. Let's see, for instance...

 

"Ryan: v5MuscAthbody, vanillahead. V4tackle."

"Nesure: RebOcnnRbFemAthCcup. OCO1DMRHD".

(most recently)

"Wyynde. BRZDEF.OCOv2DMRH.DFTTackle".

"Dorma. EBE.OCOv2BSMRH."

"Phil: RebOcnnAthCcup.NKBMRH".

 

Sooner or later I forget what all those letters mean, so I rip the pages off and start anew on plain English (yes, I take my notes in English despise being Spanish; I even think in English when gaming or modding). But then I start using abbreviations again and the party is on one more time!

 

I'm planning on assemble a seamless upgrade of my Carrotheads (minus Ryan: for some unknown reason, the seamless vanilla head changes his face geometry and Ryan is not Ryan if his face geometry and texture are slightly changed, he becomes Alroy) as my swan song on the modding scene, at least for the foreseeable future, and I will need LOTS of intelligible notes if I want to come with something publishable.

 

Cheers!

 

EDIT: EVE changed the female Khajiit texture name to footfemale and also changed the texture asset path on its Khajiit Race records inside its esp, if I'm not mistaken (could be), like Nuska did on her OCO esp. That's why EVE does not need the Khajiit Female fix, and OCO only needs a correctly named and placed footfemale texture.

Edited March 31, 2015 by IkeCoast

[Striker879]

EVE has a footfemale.dds and handfemale.dds ... that's what the EVE Khajiit fix ESP is all about (look in Textures\character\khajiit\female).

 

We're working on computers ... they aren't smart, they just work fast. They know one and zero, that's it. Since back at the very beginning of computers, when you punched cards to run your program, GIGO has always been the rule.