Halp getting started

[IkeCoast]

Rangaros, let's see if we can fix your female Khajiit texture problem.

 

You have overcomplicated the thing, I fear. I remember having explained in a previous post how the texturing works for vanilla, Robert and HGEC bodies:

 

Separate textures for separate body pieces (torso, legs, hands and feet) are for the vanilla body.

 

One single texture is for Robert Bodies: footmale.dds

 

Two textures are for HGEC body: footfemale.dds and handfemale.dds

 

What you need to do in order to fix your female kiities is:

 

as instructed by Striker, if you have not done that yet, un-merge the HGEC Khajiit fix from your bashed patch. Then, delete this esp file from your Data folder.

 

Now, go to your Oblivion\Data\Textures\Characters\Khajiit\Female folder and delete EVERYTHING you see there. All dds file you see inside the Female Khajiit textures folder, BURN IT AT THE STAKE.

 

Now, locate and download any female Khajiit texture you think you like, let's say, this one: take the Khajiit, not the Tabaxi, but if judging from the screenshots you like more the Tabaxi, that's your choice, matey.

 

Optionally, you can also grab the modified head texture for female Khajiit-HGEC by Wynxombil and see if it goes well with the aforementioned suggested texture.

 

Once you have all the textures downloaded, do not "install" them. Take the body textures package and unpack it to your Desktop.

 

Open the folder where you unpacked the package. You will see it contains two folders, Meshes and Textures. You will see also that it contains two ReadMe files. Contrary to what I always say, this time DO NOT READ THEM. IGNORE THEM and do just what I instruct here to do. We will NOT install this whole package.

 

Instead reading the Readmes, navigate to the included Textures\Characters\Khajiit\Female folder, select all the SIX files it contains, and RIGHT CLICK-COPY them.

 

Open a new Windows Explorer window and there in, navigate to your game Oblivion\Data\Textures\Characters\Khajiit\Female folder (now empty), RIGHT-CLICK ON IT-PASTE.

 

Now the six files are in your Textures\Khajiit\Female folder.

 

That's all. Really.

 

Now, if you want to use the included head texture, go to the unpackaged package Textures\Characters\Khajiit folder, locate the headkhajiit.dds file, RIGHT-CLICK-COPY It, and then RIGHT-CLICK-PASTE it in the very same place, so now you have a file called more or less "Copy of headkhajiit.dds". RENAME IT to headkhajiit_f.dds

 

Place both Windows Explorer windows side-by-side so you can see the unpackaged package window and your Oblivion\Data\Textures\Khajiit window. Notice that in your game's Khajiit folder there is already a headkhajiit.dds file, but not a headkhajiit_f.dds file (if there is indeed a headkhajiit_f.dds file, rename it to xheadkhajiit_f.dds). Take the headkhajiit_f.dds file from the unpackaged package and DRAG AND DROP it to the game's Khajiit folder.

 

If you don't like the head texture we have placed there and prefer the one I linked before, repeat that same procedure with it.

 

For this mess to work it is imprescindible you un-merge the Khajiit Female Fix from your bashed patch, get rid of its esp file, and make sure all the body and head assets in your bashed patch come from OCO v2 and nowhere else.

 

Other thing: the Setbody Reloaded Blockhead Edition will not replace your installed body. It will equip a fake body, like if it were clothing, on top of it even when your females are naked.

 

Don't be afraid to ask anything about all this "My God what intends this psycho me to do????" thing.

 

Cheers!

Edited March 28, 2015 by IkeCoast

[Rangaros]

Well, honestly I think I haven't been clear on what I've been doing or something. I already understand the concept of most of what you've been explaining, and actually have been installing some things manually just to try different things and speed up the process (since Wrye Bash is really slow to load). Don't worry about the Khajiit fix, I stopped using that long ago, unmerged it and all. I already tried the textures you mentioned, and yeah they work fine. My problem is that I'd actually like to have the HGEC body texture, it's the one I like the most, BUT the basic one has pretty noticeable seams. Now there's the Seamless for that, so that should solve it. But the problem with that is that, for some reason, having OCO also installed, its footfemale.dds messes up the female Khajiit texture, for some reason. I can go and manually replace it with the original HGEC one, but again, it has seams. And the Seamless pack doesn't seem to actually HAVE a footfemale.dds. I honestly just don't know how Seamless fixes up the female Khajiit HGEC body without using a footfemale.dds.

 

So, I guess to put it simply, I'd like to have a more or less seamless HGEC version of the Khajiit female body, together with OCO. And somehow I can't manage to do that.

 

I'll try and uninstall OCO and all the patches, see what happens.

[IkeCoast]

Ehmmmmmmm, Rangaros...

 

Uninstalling OCO will completely ruin your current installation. Most of its meshes and textures have been overwritten with Seamless and BBB ones.

 

The Seamless series does not include textures for the Beast Races. We know that. This is why you need either EVE HGEC variants or the original HGEC texture you like so much, but this one is seam-ridden and it's not possible to have it without the seams.

 

The Seamless Series gets rid of the seams by means of replacing the original meshes and textures with new ones, seam-mended and seamless. But it does not includes textures for the Khajiit HGEC female.

 

Sorry, but it's a One-or-The-Other situation: you either use the original HGEC female Khajiit texture you like, but has noticeable seams, or do as I instructed you and replace the textures you have in your Khajiit\Female folder with Luchaire's ones (or any other texture with less noticeable seams).

 

And as I said at the beginning, uninstalling OCO will throw through the window all the work you have done so far.

 

Cheers!

 

EDIT: since the Seamless Equipment does not include Seamless textures for the Khajiit females, it needs third-party seamless textures, like Luchaire's, in order to work with Khajiit females.

Edited March 28, 2015 by IkeCoast

[Rangaros]

Well I mean like uninstalling everything, then reinstalling it without OCO. Besides, I'm using Wrye Bash so if I uninstall something it actually restores any files that it had overwritten, as far as I know. From what I understand, I should potentially be able uninstall anything that only replaces things, and it SHOULDN'T break anything, it should simply go back to the files it was using before it. But just in case I'm doing things neatly.

 

Only Seamless for OCO says it doesn't include beast races, Seamless for EVE HGEC doesn't say anything about that not including those :blink: It doesn't? Honestly I had no clue, it really doesn't say that.

 

So pretty much NOTHING addresses beast race seams other than specific single-race mods?

Edited March 28, 2015 by Rangaros

[IkeCoast]

Yep, except the specific single-race mods like Luchaire's Khajiit or Drake's Argonians (among others), it's difficult to find whole Overhauls which include Beast (and even Orcs) races.

 

Let's see, as far as I have understood, the only thing that itches you right now is the female Khajiit texture problem. And as I told you, the only way to fix it is searching for a third-party high quality texture like Luchaire's one. You could have a look at the diverse retextures Alienslof made for them, just put Khajiit in the Search box at the Mods site and have a look.

 

If you uninstall OCO you will be presented with the same problem. You will need the third-party female Khajiit texture.

 

So, what are we about to do now?

 

By the way, I will tell you a Great Modders Secret:

 

*me whispers and looks side-to-side distrustfully*

 

Always open a mod package and have a look at what it contains before installing. This way you will save yourself surprises like this. And get used to manually install specific portions of a mod to use with a different mod.

 

Cheers!

[Rangaros]

The problem is that as much as by now I know a decent amount about installing and making mods work together, I have little idea about specific files of the game and what each one is or does. I might have an idea from seeing names, but I never really know for sure. I do check the packages every time, but mostly to see what kind of organization it has. Some just give you an OMOD, some give you a simple data folder so it can be installed with anything, some have multiple BAIN folders so you gotta choose inside Wrye Bash, but sometimes you actually gotta rearrange things manually into a data folder, so I never really trust any mod to be "ready to install" unless I see the folder structure inside.

 

But as much as knowing just what individual file is... not quite.

 

Also, yeah the only "practical" problem I have is getting female Khajiit textures I like. But the "theoretical" problem I have (meaning in practice it might not affect anything, but I'd love to know how it works) is why was I getting messed up female Khajiit textures with the previous setup. Pretty much the exact mods and order that Striker instructed in page 8, yet I had to add an extra "fix" on top of it for female Khajiit. I don't think it should be the case.

 

Edit: You know, I've been checking one by one all the details as I install things, to see just what each thing does. And yeah, now I can see seams in HGEC bodies and not just the neck, so alright, I understand what Seamless Equipment does. But I'm checking Robert's Male and it's just... perfect. Besides the neck of course, I really can't find any seams. So is Seamless for Robert's supposed to just affect the neck then? I gotta say I'm pretty impressed with that body replacer.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Rangaros

[IkeCoast]

I have been trying to find the source of your issue with the female Khajiit texture problem, originally I mean, but every time I try, I get lost with so many BAIN, merging, unmerging, BBBs and whatnot, I'm sorry.

 

The main problem was that you merged Robert Males and the Khajiit Female Fix with OCO in the Bashed Patch and they prevented OCO from applying the correct texture path for the Female Khajiit. Moreover, the texture the Fix included wasn't seamless. Neither was the original HGEC texture you like. Luchaire's one is.

 

BAIN, Omods and other guided installers are a really useful and convenient ways for mod installation but they are not enough. In order to have a really good setup of your game and your mods you definitely need to know how the game engine works and what each different file type does, so you can manually swap them to match your desires and even use Blockhead Asset Overrides.

 

A quick and basic summary of files used by the game:

 

MESHES

 

.nif are the 3D "physical" form all objects in the game have. It not only includes the geometry, but also the texture path and collision and havok properties, and, when needed, emissive and reflective properties of the object. Failure to load this file will cause the game engine show the Miising Mesh warning sign (a really big yellow triangle with a red exclamation mark in vanilla game, a really big yellow star with the "WTF I'M A MISSING MESH" when the UOP is used.

 

.tri and .egm files are the two files the game engine uses to know how to morph a nif mesh to create effects such as head and face features change in the CharGen, changing the length of hairs, et cetera. When a mesh (namely the head mesh) needs it, failure to load the .tri file will cause the game to crash to desktop. failure to load the egm will make the mesh non-morphable, so the head will not change shape, the lips will not move, an helmet will not adapt to the head, those things.

 

.egt is actually a texture file, but it's stored with the corresponding .nif file. It contains a set of special textures used to change skin tone, apply make-up, et al. Until the arrival of the Seamless series, these files were absolute poison for the neck seams. Failure to load this file (or a blank file, or the complete absence of this file) will make the game rendering only the colormap.

 

TEXTURES

 

.dds (no suffix in the filename) are the basic texture maps, the color or diffuse map. When people say "texture" usually mean this file, but this file is only one part of the complete texture we see in game. It only adds color to the mesh, nothing else. If the texture is as photo-realistic as possible, it can fake volume and other 3d features, but it's not its main purpose. Failure to load this map will show the mesh as purple or blue.

 

Icons for the inventory menu also are simple .dds files, but created with different settings.

 

_n.dds is the normalmap, the file that tells the game engine how the mesh reacts to light (refraction and reflection). It is used to give the mesh a 3d surface texture, like carved details, wrinkles, et al. Technically speaking this is not its function (that would be for bumpmaps), but it works. Failure to load this file will show the mesh as pitch-black, with no highlights at all (note: Nuska's Bosmer eyes include a completely black eyeball that more often than once is mistaken for the missing normalmap effect; that's not the case, because these completely black eyes have highlights and reflective properties).

 

_g.dds are the glowmaps, that is, the file that tells the game engine which parts of a mesh with an emissive material will glow in the dark. The color of the glow is not controlled by the textures, but by the material color set on the nif file.

 

_h.dds are hue maps. I'm not really sure what they do exactly, because I have tried to load a mesh without this file and I see no difference.

 

the _m and _f suffixes are labels for Blockhead to know for which gender is the file intended. The game engine does not recognize them, so it ignores them. This is why the same _n.dds can be applied to both male and female textures, and the same egt, egm and tri files can be applied to both genders meshes.

 

There is a special case of an object, namely a weapon, clothing piece or body part, not showing at all in-game, that is, being completely invisible. Usually this is caused by lack of both color map and normal map, but it also can be caused by an incorrect skeleton applied to the mesh, or an incorrectly named material property inside the nif file.

 

It is essential for a modder to know these files, how they work and react together, and where to place them. Usually you only need how nifs and dds files work, even if we don't know how to create them.

 

This is Lection One. Let's see if you have any questions (I would be really surprised if you didn't).

 

Cheers!

[Rangaros]

Well that's helpful, I'll study it a bit.

 

Regarding the other issue, you see, I have the problem when I DON'T have the Khajiit fix. The fix actually... well, fixes it. It's like this:

 

HGEC female > Robert male with esp disabled and NOT merged > OCO = Khajiit female texture was messed up.

 

The bashed patch only affects mods with esp's as far as I know, so none of the above should be affected by it.

 

Now if on top of that I added any new footfemale.dds (for example, the one in the Khajiit fix), that texture would replace the broken one and "fix" the problem. And by fix I mean it just cover it up, basically, with a new texture.

[IkeCoast]

Rangaros, I think the problem was caused because you installed OCO last and then did not install any HGEC Khajiit texture on top of it... and when you did with the original HGEC texture (with seams) or Luchaire's texture (without seams) the problem was fixed. Yes, fixed, the las paragraph in your post is EXACTLY HOW TO FIX this issue: installing the appropriate footfemale.dds file.

 

If that's not the case, I can think about another possibility: your bashed patch depended on the Khajiit Fix to tell it which texture use, and ignored OCO's esp instructions, so the female Khajiit mesh reverted to using the texture hardcoded in its nif file, that is, the vanilla one. Which is not designed to be applied to HGEC body UV mapping. Putting a correct HGEC texture gave the mesh an alternative to that texture and the Archive Invalidation allow it to pick that texture, even if the bashed patch did not know what to tell the mesh to put on her.

 

I think it would be advisable a little lesson on how the game engine applies textures to body parts... but it's 3:00 on the morning (due to the switch to Summer hour here at CET), so perhaps it's better to leave it for later.

 

Cheers!

[Rangaros]

I don't think it's the first case because otherwise what is OCO's footfemale.dds supposed to do then? If you HAVE to always overwrite it with something else, why does it exist? Obviously it was designed to work with something, just dunno with what.

 

And not sure the bashed patch is doing anything wrong really, since the Khajiit fix wasn't even related to it anymore, but the part about reverting to vanilla textures makes sense, not sure why though.

 

Damn, you're 5 hours ahead of me (or 19 behind? Perspective! _{^{not really}})

 

Edit: *points* There, there! I just realized, OCO by default isn't really compatible with HGEC, that's why there's the a compatibility patch, right? BUT I just checked and the OCO-HGEC compatibility patch doesn't even HAVE a Khajiit footfemale.dds (in fact it only has Dark Elf, Imperial and Orc ones, and then other non-playable races). So how could it POSSIBLY work right? First, OCO is overwritting a file by HGEC, and then the compatibility patch doesn't have a new version to actually make em compatible. AND the instructions specifically say that the order is: body replacer > OCO > compatibility patch.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Rangaros