Halp getting started

[Rangaros]

Hm, in that case should I just install things with OBMM and use Wrye for a bashed patch afterwards? Cause it really seems infinitely easier and most mods out there seem to suggest using the OMOD version.

[IkeCoast]

Yep, Rangaros, you can use OBMM for installing and basic management and leave WB for the Bashed Patch and advanced management. And one little step each time, learn how to use WB.

 

There's another tool that could really help you to have a tidi and healthier Oblivion Installation: the Profile managers. The leading ones are mTES4 Manager and Multiple Oblivion Manager. Have a look at them, you'll find their features interesting. I personally can't play nor mod without mTES4.

 

Cheers!

[Rangaros]

Alright, I was afraid cause I heard something about OBMM not making backups when a mod overwrites something, or something like that, so I feared it might end up being a bad option.

[IkeCoast]

Oblivion Mod Manager is the second best option, before Wrye Bash. About back-ups, that's why I recommend you the Profile Managers. You can use them to create a safe back-up of your base fine-tuned installation, then every time you want to add a large scale mod and fear things will go haywire, back-up your playing installation.

 

The first back-up of your base, perfectly fine-tuned game, you must NEVER TOUCH again.

 

Cheers!

[Striker879]

You can also install mods with Wrye Bash. Some mods are distributed in what is known as BAINs, some of which include wizards to guide you through complex installations (similar to some OMOD's install scripts if you went the OBMM route). Almost any other mod can be installed using WB by putting the downloaded 7z or ZIP into the proper folder (documented in those readme.html files).

 

I got the impression from your original post that you were perhaps a bit above the beginner level, which is why I mentioned Wrye Bash.

 

- Edit - WB is very good at taking care of overwrites from different mods (see the annealing feature in those readme.html files). OBMM has no such capability ... and Ike is completely correct, you can start off with OBMM and then learn WB. I myself didn't have much luck getting MOM and WB working together ... never tried mTES4. I used MOM before I started using WB.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Striker879

[Rangaros]

Well, I did play several heavily modded games in the past, but I always used either NMM or the specific mod manager for that game (OBMM, FOMM, etc). And I did use something similar to a bashed patch before, I think for FONV. I don't remember what it was called but it was basically the same thing, a patch that goes after all the mods to help with compatibility. But I never bothered with Wrye Bash in particular. I dunno, I guess I'm just a bit afraid of something new and more complex, and also I don't remember everything from back then. Plus the idea of having to use different managers to install different mods doesn't exactly appeal to me.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Rangaros

[Rangaros]

Well, I got all the unofficial patches, OBSE and Blockhead so far. Now I know this isn't strictly what I initially asked, but I figure I might as well get it cleared out here since we already talked about it. Onto all the bodies and texture stuff, from what I understand, I need to go: Robert Male Body Replacer (body and outfit replacers), then EVE HGEC Eyecandy Variants Expansion (from my understanding it has both bodies and armors/clothes), then Oblivion Character Overhaul v2 AND I need to deactivate Robert's esp file? Then I install Growlf's Skeleton, and then Seamless Equipment for both body replacers. Then I read something about Seamless heads Nuska's Edition, but not quite sure what that's for.

 

Now assuming all that is correct, I'm also wondering about mods that add new armor. I was planning on using Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul. From what I get, I have to install it first, and then the compatibility patch found on the Seamless Equipment page, right? But I'm not sure about all the body options, since after each of the mods listed it mentions specific ones. Does that mean the copmatibility patch only works for those specific body types?

[IkeCoast]

Hey, Rangaros!

 

Yep, you understood all correctly, Robert Male does not include the Stock Clothing and Armors, it is a separate download, but the EVE HGEC omod installer does, and installs everything needed for a basic HGEC installation. Then, once you have finished installing OCO v2 and the Seamless bodies, you install the Seamless Equipments patches and that's all. And yes, once ALL of this is done, you install Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul, then install the Patches for your body types on the Seamless Equipment.

 

The way the Patches work is a little bit confusing, but really straightforward: when your character is naked, he or she has the nude body from the Body Replacer you installed. But when he or she wears clothing or armor, the body you can see underneath these clothes or armors is not the same as when naked, it's included with the clothes and armor. That means, if you install the EBE female body, but a Normal C-Cup Clothing and Armor replacer (or Patch), when your strong, powerful and big-breasted warrior woman puts any clothing or armor on her, her body will "shrink" and become thinner and with smaller breasts. This is why each Patch states for which body type is intended: they will work with any body type of the same Replacer (HGEC patches will not work with RobFem due to texture incompatibility), but the shape of the clothed body will not be the same as the nude one. So, in order to have always the same look, you install the Patch intended for your naked body... get it? I fear you don't...

 

Seamless Heads Nuska's Edition is the complete Oblivion Character Overhaul v2 Head Meshes package, seam-mended by Junkacc. That means, if you install the Seamless Body but leave the heads as they come with the default OCO installation, you will NOT have a Seamless character. You need to replace the head meshes too.

 

I'll let you chew all this. Phew, Oblivion Modding is not quite a walk on the park, I know.

 

Cheers!

[Rangaros]

Well, it's gonna take like an age to download all this, lol, so it'll be a while. I do (think) I get how the patches work, the thing is, it doesn't seem like there's patches for everything. For example, on the Seamless Equipment page it says:

 

"Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul: RobMale Muscular, DMRA, HGEC C, E, H, TGND2."

 

Does that mean that the Seamless patch for MOO is only available for those specified body types? So if I were to use, say, Robert's average instead of muscular, there would be a slight different when using armors added by MOO?

 

Edit: This Wrye Bash thing doesn't seem so bad after all. It's mostly a matter of finding a good guide. But I wonder, why can't just every mod be installed with it? It even says OMOD files can be converted into installers for it, so I dunno what kinda mod would be flat out incompatible.

 

Edit 2: Alright, one more for the list, since apparently I'm a masochist and keep wanting to make things more complicated, even when I didn't finish with the previous issue. Say I wanna get involved with the BBB version of HGEC... yeah it's a bit of a mess here. I found the skeleton for that in the thread you linked before (BBB Ragdoll Breast Physics - Growlfs Skeleton), so that's one thing down, but then I dunno exactly what to get for the rest. For starters I don't even know if I need the original EVE HGEC Eyecandy Variants Expansion, or if the BBB mods already have everything included. There's HGEC Body with BBB v1dot12 which apparently includes a bunch of stuff together, so that's why I think I might not need the original EVE HGEC, but I don't think that comes with the clothing/armor. So then there's BBB for EVE HGEC stock replacer, which is exactly that, and actually specifies that it's only a replacer and needs a base first. But really I can't find clear instructions on anything, much less the order in which I should install all of it.

 

What's more, do all those even work with Seamless Equipment?

 

Edit 3: Welp, dunno. I wanted to try at least the male stuff meanwhile, to see how it worked, and it doesn't seem to be working right. I installed Robert's Male > OCO > Growlf's skeleton > Seamless patch for Robert's Male > Seamless patch OCO, Robert's esp disabled (although I also tried enabled and it made no difference). I'm getting horribly visible seams on the inner side of the legs and very visible seams on the arms and neck where they connect with the body. And it made me remember I used to have this problem way back, lol. I just didn't bother too much cause it looks fine with clothes, since they essentially hide all that. But I'd really like to get it set properly this time.

 

By the way I'm installing pretty much everything with Wyre Bash now that I figured out how. Robert's stuff actually has BAIN versions with wizards and all, but dunno, maybe the others that aren't specifically for BAIN I shouldn't use Wrye Bash?

Edited March 25, 2015 by Rangaros

[Striker879]

I'm guessing you're using the Steam version of the game Rangaros. Steam changed the dates on all the vanilla game BSA files (e.g. Oblivion - Meshes.bsa and Oblivion - Textures - Compressed.bsa etc) and thus broke BSA Redirection. If I'm right you can perform a little community service for me while we're fixing this.

 

Usually I recommend OBMM and using it's utilities to correct the situation, but I noticed something in my own Wrye Bash installation that suggests a different route is available to Steam + WB users.

 

Archive invalidation is a method of getting the game to use assets (textures, meshes etc) without using an ESP to direct the game to the replacements. It allows replacers to work by simply putting their assets in the same path as the vanilla game uses inside the compressed archives (the BSA files). The most recent and reliable method of archive invalidation is BSA Redirection. If you look on Wrye's Installer tab right click context menu you'll see it about 3/4 of the way down from the top.

 

To get around the changed date problem my suggestion (and this is an experiment, but I'm confident in the outcome) is to use BOSS (a load order sorting utility) plus building your first bashed patch to fix the problem.

 

First could you look at Oblivion - Textures - Compressed.bsa using Windows Explorer and get the file date. Then install BOSS (eventually you will need it anyway to get the most out of using WB) ... I suggest the installer version, was painless for me to install. From the WB interface after you've installed BOSS click on the BOSS icon down on the lower task bar. It should run a small black COMMAND window and you'll see it report it's updating the masterlist. When it's done it should open a report in your browser. When you're done with the report switch back to WB and on the Mods tab right click your bashed patch (it should be down at the bottom of your load order after running BOSS). Select Rebuild Patch (I use the CBash method myself). When it's done it will display a report in a small window, which you can close when you're done.

 

Now, to see if the BOSS + Bashed Patch idea of mine is correct check the date on Oblivion - Textures - Compressed.bsa ... I believe you should find it's now been re-dated to 2006 and I'm pretty sure when you look, your skin textures will be just fine.

 

If you want to read the full descriptions on the BOSS/Bashed Patch thing it's covered in detail in the Wrye Bash General Readme.html (sections Setting Up Load Order and Setting Up A Bashed Patch). The more advanced stuff on bashed patches is covered in Wrye Bash Advanced Readme.html (Advanced Bashed Patch section). There isn't much more info than you'll see in the context menu description for BSA Redirection (that menu is reproduced in the Installers Tab section of the advanced readme). Both readme.html files are found in your game's Oblivion\Mopy\Docs folder.

 

I believe the options shown for bodies in MOO is due to those are the only body sizes/types that have been converted and included with MOO. Maskar is currently working with a couple of mesh modellers to convert some other stuff for use in MOO (female only from what I've seen at this juncture ... guys never get much lovin'). Generally speaking, unless you wear what you loot the stuff in MOO is just for the NPCs added by MOO, but as clothes/armor "become" the body part they cover you will see changes to your character/NPCs wearing stuff sized differently than their naked body.

 

You won't need the BBBed version of EVE clothing/armor if you install the Seamless Equipment HGEC Edition. If you don't want to see body size changes when you loot pick the same size as you picked for bodies when installing equipment.

 

BBB is a system. To work you need three things ... a BBBed mesh (body mesh, clothing mesh or armor mesh), a BBBed skeleton.nif that the mesh is rigged to (the Ragdoll is my personal choice) and BBBed animations to move those new extra "breast bones". If you don't want to see the bouncing just install the skeleton.nif and not the animations (then if you install a BBBed version of something down the road you won't get the famous "Boobs to Infinity" problem, but at the same time nothing will bounce an inch).

 

For the full meal deal I recommend NoMaaM BBB Animation Replacer. Usually I recommend the OMOD install as it has a script to walk you through the options. I've no experience using WB to convert/install OMODs, but I'm intimately aware of all of NoMaaM's options ... I can walk you through a manual install (and as it's a "pure replacer" ... i.e. no ESP, Wrye really doesn't need to do anything for it to work ... all taken care of by BSA Redirection).