spoiler I NEVER Understood...

[RustyBlade]

To the Loghain apologists: I will concede the fact that at Ostagar he did the right thing for the wrong reason (although it is still regicide) but you never addressed his many other crimes (at least not in this discussion.) Attempted murder, kidnapping, selling free elves into bondage, heresy, assaulting agents of the chantry, aiding and abetting enemies of the chantry, aiding and abetting the use of blood magic... the list goes on and on. Sure, he was a hero and he helped to free Ferelden (wasn't all his doing though) but that was then; good deeds in the past cannot wipe out atrocities in the present. His execution is just and mercifully quick. The wardens have enough troubles without recruiting the likes of him and to those who would argue that, I only have two words for you - Sophie Dryden.

[Thandal]

^^^ THIS ^^^

[lorelai2009]

I'm not a Loghain apologist(my city elf, for example would slit his throat the moment she set eyes on him at the Landsmeet) and his execution IS just, but I'm not talking about him, for him it's easy, he dies and that's that, it's hard for the ones that love him and remain behind to mourn him. However sly and Anora is, if I could offer her the comfort that her father had a fair trial, I would do that, or at least give her a day to say her goodbyes to him. No child deserves that, it saddens me that she had mere minutes...I know that his acts are beyond what words can describe, but bowing down to his level of cruelty would not make me a better person.

And if you say that I would risk them turning on me AGAIN, I say that they had support of some nobles, the army loyal to them and they were considered innocent by most and they couldn't succeed so what chance would they have now?

*possible spoilers* or something like that...

And for those who really hate him, well....let's just say that if you spare him ...something 'nice' could occur later on...something that I find is worse than death mwahahaha!

[RustyBlade]

Awww, poor Anora... ok, I'm over it. Deserters in Ferelden don't get a trial; remember the prisoner in Ostagar? As far as the rest of the Ferelden "justice" system goes, beheading him on the spot is far more merciful than anything the nobles or the chantry would have in store for him. As for "something 'nice' occurring later on I offer this bit of sage advice: No good deed goes unpunished. :ohmy:

[lorelai2009]

Yes, I remember the prisoner at Ostagar, and I would have helped him if his cause was just, and I always feel bad when I return to Ostagar :sad: and you know...maybe for him would have been more merciful to be beheaded... :sad:

RustyBlade if you ever spare Loghain and play Awakening...well you'll see what that 'nice' thing is...I won't spoil the fun, trust me, it's very ironic... and I understand what you mean, and from a point of view, killing Loghain does seem practical(especially if you're friends with Alistair, i would NEVER risk loosing a good friend over someone like Loghain) so if we totally ignore the fact about the Archdemon slaying, it is practical...BUT it is also practical to kill Connor for example, instead of going all the way back to the Circle(not knowing if the mages will/can help you<--no metagaming) and considering how long the journey will take and not knowing if the demon won't go berserk on the people remaining.

So, my question is this: do your characters kill Loghain out of revenge or because it's the smart and practical thing to do?

[Thandal]

... So, my question is this: do your characters kill Loghain out of revenge or because it's the smart and practical thing to do?

Yes. :whistling:

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Ok, so the "Justice" (not "revenge") part is easy. The practical part comes from not knowing what I don't know about slaying the AD. (And everyone who thinks Riordan should have said more at this point is exactly right! But no metagaming...)

 

I don't know about the slim odds of defeating the AD. I do know that I cannot safely trust this man. No matter his past heroism and devotion to Ferelden. He. Is. Insane.

 

Cailin trusted him. What happened?

 

Anora trusted him. What almost happened?

 

Now I'm to believe that he won't still try to take the throne AS a Grey Warden? (See Sophia Dryden for the object lesson there.) Why? What, exactly, has Loghain done that would make ME want to have him anywhere near me, vs. executing an admitted traitor to his King and enemy of all who supported my efforts to unite the arls against the Blight?

 

No fair saying "Great General". He was Cailin's "Great General" too, remember?

[RustyBlade]

Sometimes I kill him just because he won't STFU :whistling:

[lorelai2009]

Sometimes I kill him just because he won't STFU :whistling:

 

I see. Am I to assume that you harbor these dark thoughts for Wynne too then? :teehee:

 

@Thandal, you make a very good point, metagaming aside and especially if you're friends/lovers with Alistair it would be pretty stupid to spare Loghain, like I said, I NEVER do that under those circumstances because it's simply idiotic to lose someone that I know for certain would have my back over someone that maybe, given the chance, will consort with the Archdemon himself :laugh: )

If I would spare him however, I would make sure he would never get into a position as Sophia. I learned from the past mistakes of the other wardens. But you must admit, one doesn't need to be a warden to do what Sophia did, so that risk always exists. Sure, she had the advantage of having such great warriors at her side...but let's say that (as a mage warden) you choose to give freedom to the Circle--there is the potential for another 'Sophia' history repeating, maybe even worse...so yes, there are risks, but there will always be.

Edited December 10, 2010 by lorelai2009

[ell46]

I don't like him and I dislike him more as the game goes on. The first time I played I agreed to his joining to increase the number of GWs even though I was itching to kill him myself. I knew nothing of the US, then Alistair walked so I figured if I there are still only going to be 2 wardens in the party then Loghain has to go, so I stopped the game reloaded and killed him and I've killed him every game since. I think he's a horrible man.

 

I like Thandal's idea best, Loghain dies, Alistair stays, no DR, Loghain makes the US (yes, you did read that correctly) and no one even knows, then we all live happily ever after as far removed from reality as you can get.

 

I've no sympathy for Anora, I don't like her either and I believe she is the type of person who would throw anyone including her own father to the wolves if it was in her best interest to do so without a second thought.

 

I'm going to check out the Awakening wiki to find out what this 'nice' thing is, if it's there, because no way am I sparing him to find out. :laugh: if it's not there can you please tell me, this is spoilers after all :biggrin:

 

Not Wynne again :laugh: :laugh: she gets left in the tower until she is needed and never ever spoken to unless absolutely necessary or she corners you.

Edited December 10, 2010 by ell46

[RustyBlade]

Sometimes I kill him just because he won't STFU :whistling:

 

I see. Am I to assume that you harbor these dark thoughts for Wynne too then? :teehee:

 

There are days :devil: