Should holocaust denial be criminal?

[Deleted1217574User]

Well, as for proof, the Nazis more or less proved it themselves. They kept extensive records and histories of how many people went in, and how many were never coming back out. I'm pretty sure that's where the estimate comes from.

 

As for the legality... I don't think it should be illegal in the slightest. Definitely a violation of freedom of speech.

[Chaosblade02]

You know I forgot to click on the link in the petition to view current signatures, in which there are only 68 total.

 

It seems like most of the responses are in jest or flat out racist. This whole petition is probably just a farce, I took it a little bit too seriously.

 

I gotta admit a few of those are pretty funny though, maybe David Letterman could make a top 10 list as to why the holocaust should be illegal :laugh:

 

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?hol5denl&1

Edited December 8, 2010 by Chaosblade02

[Vindekarr]

The most abnoxious thing about free speach is how people decide to use it.

 

The world is full of really outstanding people-hell just look at the Nexus, a lot of the people who come here are worthy of that list. But it always feels like the ones who use their free speach to shout the loudest are the ones with the least to contribute. Hatred, foolishness, barbarism and evil.

 

But hey, it's free speach, and I'd much rather live in a world with people freely able to spout offensive nonsense-a world which, by extension, I can just as freely counter-argue or call them idiots-than a world where EVERYONE has to have their speach restricted.

 

I find holocuast denial very very offensive on a core level, but it shouldnt be illegal. While we must NEVER forget what crimes we commited against our own kind during WW2, likewise we must keep free speach free, even if we dont want to hear what some people are saying.

 

Because for every ten moronic skin-heads, who only use their free speach to spread hate, you've got three truly inspirational people who use their freedom of speach to make the world a better place-for all of us-and that's why we cant make any form of speach illegal. Freedom is a surprisingly double edged sword, but it's better to live in a free but troubled world with the potential for improvement, than a stagnant dictatorship that will only ever get worse.

 

Good topic Chaos, very interesting and very timely with this Wikileaks debarkle going on. Point for you.

[JimboUK]

I don't think opinions should be criminalised, if people want to display their ignorance in public they should be allowed to. You can't change opinions by silencing those who disagree with you, only through reasoned debate can you do that. Denial isn't a crime a the UK but we some equally ridiculous race laws that curtail free speech, these have done nothing at all to tackle racism, in fact they make it worse by giving the impression that minorities are being given special treatment by the state. I'm surprised these laws haven't been challenged in the European Court of Human Rights, they quite obviously curtail freedom of expression.

[BlackBaron2]

I don't think holocaust denial should be an offence. Equally, it should not be an offence to ridicule and debunk it. :thumbsup:

[Balagor]

@Chaosblade

It seems that you would rather discuss holocaust itself that the denial of it. Ok, First, Holocaust happend in a time without Internet, without Wiki, without any witness to what really happend. The 6 million killed was WW2 victims all together, including KZ victims, witch are estimated to about 4 millions. Thats what I learned in school. It was horrible, and I don´t question it.

As for the subject you say you want to discuss, but do not discuss. Why do you care? You do not live in any of those countries. It is not your freedom of speech that is involved here. We all have our sovereign laws, don´t we? :wink: Or is that another debate? :thumbsup:

[marharth]

No, I strongly believe in free speech even if what you say is entirely insane.

 

No one really knows whats right and wrong... Out moral values can't say much.

 

If I want to say that the holocaust never happened and Hitler was a giant robot monster from Pluto with a secret agenda to brainwash masses into traveling to the moon.... So what?

 

I believe in free speech on matter what...

[Aurielius]

First off , just for the record the Holocaust did occur over six million Jews, Gypsy's, intellectuals,socialists,and forced laborers from all over Europe were interned and died through planned intentional mass murder. If you find this fact debatable then look over the minutes of the Wansee Conference in which it was planned at the highest level of the Third Reich. Then one might want to look at the archival footage that the Reich took of their owns executions in eastern Europe, if that is not enough to convince you a distasteful perusal of the the allied news footage after they overran the the camps themselves might change you mind about the quantity of murder meted out during the war years.

 

I find it abhorrent that after so much documentation of this nadir of humanity that here even could be a discussion over it's scope. As to the concept of whether it should be illegal to refute these facts in public, I think that in the countries involved they decided that toleration of disinformation was an unacceptable concept given their past history. In the main I am open to the free discussion of historical facts but all too often this is used has a guise to marginalize the extent of the horror inflicted by the Nazis on their victims. Goebbels's said quite accurately if you repeat a lie often enough it will be perceived as the truth given time, and unfortunately the little troll was right.

 

On that note, I'm just going to close this thread. Too much potential for someone to make this real ugly.

 

-Vagrant0

Edited December 8, 2010 by Vagrant0