Cleaving damage

[Matth85]

Your point? It sounds exactly like "cleaving damage" to me. Most of those games with a "cleave" feat that I know of don't allow you to use it all the time without limits.

THe problem is: You are forced to do a SIDEway power attack to do it. By the time I got that off, I am either dead or the enemies have split -- meaning I only hit 1.

Logically, you would be able to hit further away, and sweep a bigger distance, with a 2 handed compared to a 1 handed. So far this doesn't hold true in Skyrim.

 

That said, I am not sure how the game would be with some "real" combat. It would be weird to mix Ninja Gaiden with The ELder Scrolls. Cool, but weird.

[Khorak]

What is AoE, and what is cleaving damage?

 

AoE is 'Area of Effect'. It's common terminology for RPG game systems, both tabletop and computer. The Fireball in Skyrim would be referred to as an 'AoE spell'.

 

'Cleaving damage' is....not common terminology, it's a weird ruination of common terminology. No-one says 'cleaving damage', they actually talk in more generic terms about an AoE melee attack. MMO's especially have lots of attacks like this for fighters, and it is very common for 'Cleave' to be used as a name for them. 'Cleave' is used in reference to the D&D ability of the same name, which only the worst Fighter would ever fail to take and is thus pretty much a standard thing.

 

If the OP made sense, the thread title would be "AoE melee attacks?"

[Krawll]

I have to say i disagree with most of what is said in this thread .

 

Sounds to me like you people are wishing for a combat style similar to all those MMOs or similar to Diablo where all you gotta do is Spam the attack button and everything in front of you just drops dead.

 

As some of you guys mentioned , there is a Cleaving Attack in Skyrim which is a perk located in the 2 Handed weapons skill tree and all you gotta do is do a sideways power attack and it will attack everyone in front of you. Which i think works great . As far as i'm concerned , Skyrim's fighting system is something i had been waiting for , for a very very very very long time .

 

I've played MMOs for a long time before this but the combat systems in those games were never realistic enough for my taste. Skyrim is THE game that finaly offers me a combat system that offers the kinda challenge i was looking for . Long fights and realistic combat moves . I'm not saying it doesn't have it's flaws , just like everything else but so far Skyrim offers the best fights.

 

I'm realy happy that the assassin in skyrim cannot destroy an entire legion of creatures by shooting 300 arrows in a single shot like they do in Diablo 3 . I've actualy never played Diablo 3 exactly for that particular reason. When i saw the videos i almost puked out of dissapointment.

 

There are a lot of things about Skyrim that bug a lot of people , including me , but as far as the fighting system goes, if there is ONE thing you'lll never hear me complain about in Skyrim , that would be the fights it offers.

 

And for all of you people who don't like fighting much and who like to feel like gods by destroying whole groups of ennemies at once well, there is Fireball, Chain Lightning, Frost storm, Blizzard, Fire Storm, Mass Parylisis, Hysteria, Mayhem or Bane of the Dead for undead creatures. And on top of that there are all the shouts or almost that will affect EVRYTHING in front of you such as Unrelenting Force which will all have , fire breath, frost breath, Ice form, and the overly powerful Storm Call which can only be used outside ( Thank God).

 

So in my opinion, if you're playing a melee type character , then you should be the kind of person looking for a bit more of a challenge and for those of you who complained that the sweep attack is too slow which allows the ennemies to split up well just ask yourself, if this was real life , would you realy be able to swing such an enormous sword around at light speed ?? Would you even be able to Cleave it through more than one ennemy ?? i realy doubt it .

 

So thanks Bethesda for making this game realistic , finlay someone who cares about realism.

[AnzacTNF]

...

 

#2

 

Nothing more to add. :thumbsup:

[sajuukkhar9000]

So thanks Bethesda for making this game realistic , finlay someone who cares about realism.

 

realism shouldn't matter in a game with magic and dragons.

 

Just sayin.

[Khorak]

Skyrim, and Elder Scrolls games before it, have respected a thematic and dramatic tone that precludes the people in the setting acting like blatant superheroes. The protagonist has always been able to master an implausibly wide range of skills, but always within a framework that keeps a basic, down to Earth expectation of still being human/human equivalent in the ways that matter. Outside of magic you can't fly, or have superspeed, or have superstrength (because the problem with RPG inventory goes far beyond mere weight issues), and generally do stuff which completely destroys any immersive suspension of disbelief that your protagonist is still basically a person. You've bought into the setting allowing you to use magic, to be a great warrior, to sneak and backstab, to be charismatic, to be many things you aren't, but in the end the protagonist is still presented as a person, a special person.

 

....so saying realism doesn't matter in a setting with magic and dragons is bloody silly. Aspects of realism are absolutely essential to making Elder Scrolls games what they are. They thrive on keeping the player somewhat grounded, even if Bethesda are constant epic fail in preventing min-maxing that will immediately totally destroy the tone, drama and atmosphere they're shooting for by making you an unstoppable magister of death.

 

What's the difference between Skyrim and, say, God of War? The latter couldn't give two shits about realism. Realism went completely out the window in favour of massive sword flails, tearing off heads and banging the gods own concubines so hard the room shakes.

[Krawll]

So thanks Bethesda for making this game realistic , finlay someone who cares about realism.

 

realism shouldn't matter in a game with magic and dragons.

 

Just sayin.

 

 

When i say realism , i don't mean that i wish Skyrim was exactly the same as the world we live in without dragons or magic. The reason i play games such as Skyrim is to experience what it would be like to live in a world with Magic and Dragons. But that doesn't mean that a certain amount of realism shouldn't be kept. I'll bring back my example of Diablo 3 assassins or is it hunters ? who can shoot like 300 arrows in a single shot of their crossbow. Thats what i consider Unrealistic and not only can they shoot all those arrows in one shot, they can shoot another 300 arrows only a second later or simply as fast as you can click a mouse button. Or seeing barbarians spinning on themselves with their battle axes indifinitly and just cutting through hordes or demons .

 

At least in skyrim you have to learn to block attacks or dodge out of the way, and just like real life, you can only shoot one arrow at a time , swinging a greatsword or battle axe in Skyrim is done in a realistic way which means no light speed whirlwind attack. Using a shield to block a huge two handed hammer will definatly reduce the damage but you'll definatly feel the hit and move back a few steps .

 

Now i will certainly not say that the fights in Skyrim are 100% realistic , as i said in my previous post , it DOES have it's flaws just like everything else but so far , this is the best fighting system i've seen in a game such as this.

 

And i will say that i agree with pretty much everything Khorak said in his post .

[redhorizon09]

I have to say i disagree with most of what is said in this thread .

 

Sounds to me like you people are wishing for a combat style similar to all those MMOs or similar to Diablo where all you gotta do is Spam the attack button and everything in front of you just drops dead.

 

As some of you guys mentioned , there is a Cleaving Attack in Skyrim which is a perk located in the 2 Handed weapons skill tree and all you gotta do is do a sideways power attack and it will attack everyone in front of you. Which i think works great . As far as i'm concerned , Skyrim's fighting system is something i had been waiting for , for a very very very very long time .

 

I've played MMOs for a long time before this but the combat systems in those games were never realistic enough for my taste. Skyrim is THE game that finaly offers me a combat system that offers the kinda challenge i was looking for . Long fights and realistic combat moves . I'm not saying it doesn't have it's flaws , just like everything else but so far Skyrim offers the best fights.

 

I'm realy happy that the assassin in skyrim cannot destroy an entire legion of creatures by shooting 300 arrows in a single shot like they do in Diablo 3 . I've actualy never played Diablo 3 exactly for that particular reason. When i saw the videos i almost puked out of dissapointment.

 

So thanks Bethesda for making this game realistic , finlay someone who cares about realism.

 

Skyrim is far from "realism". Believable is probably the better word to describe stuff like this in a fantasy world. And no one's asking for aoe arrow firing... Sounds to me like some people here want larger weapons, such as the 2-handers, to have the innate ability to hit more than one target in one swing. I don't see how this concept would be unbelievable. Even with 1-handers, it should still be possible to hit more than one target though on a much smaller scale. Furthermore, no one (so far at least) is asking for overpowered multi-hit cleave damage spamming either. In Skyrim, I've noticed that foes tend to avoid being bunched up in tight groups. I've seen foes split up to flank my character; with this kind of npc A.I., I don't see how a melee cleave would be considered overpowered or ridiculous.

 

Cleave damage shouldn't be difficult to implement as long as Bethesda does these things:

1. Make the radius of cleave damage from weapons vary by the size of the weapon. A dagger obviously would not have the same radius of cleave damage as a large 2-handed sword. Targets would have to be standing pretty much right next to each other with shoulders touching, for the dagger cleave to work.

2. Make cleave damage weaker than the damage aimed at the main target. 50-80% weaker cleave damage sounds right to me. Additional targets closer to the outer ranges of the cleave damage radius would obviously take the least amount of damage.

3. Have melee specialization perk for increasing cleave damage slightly.

4. They need to change the damage on dual-wielding. People generally tend to have dominant arms and the way dual-wielding is in Skyrim, it's silly how every humanoid can simultaneously wield two weapons as if ambidextrous is a common trait. Ambidextrous should have been a perk; without this perk, the offhand weapon should do far less damage.

[aguliondew]

Cleave from 2h sweep power attacks are very simple to use and during my first playthrough it was very annoying. No matter what fight my follower would die because he move into my sweep range 180° in from of me. It is understandable that people would want a 2h to start with cleave. All of the high damage AE spells have long casting times and are not worth the mana or time use to cast them. Also, they have the same issue I had with sweeping strike AE tends to kill any followers you have.

 

I've played MMOs for a long time before this but the combat systems in those games were never realistic enough for my taste. Skyrim is THE game that finaly offers me a combat system that offers the kinda challenge i was looking for . Long fights and realistic combat moves . I'm not saying it doesn't have it's flaws , just like everything else but so far Skyrim offers the best fights.

 

I did not find skyrim's combat system to be challenging at all. Block, dodge, or use a potion to mitigate damage that is similiar to the other mmo's I have played. One of the major annoying thing I find about the game is that master difficult mages can one shot you, but your spells do not grow to be anywhere near that powerful. Playing as a mage on master is a big handicap without mods. I read that mages were OP in oblivion but they should at least be able to clear master difficult without taking an entire mana bar to get an enemy to 80% hp. Yes I know enchanting will reduce mana consumption to zero but that takes awhile to level early in the game.

[bpestilence]

You talk about realism, but cleaving damage itself is not realistic. You think, in real life, you could hit multiple targets with one hit?

 

Okay, maybe if they are all unarmored and you are using a weapon specifically designed for cleaving unarmored foes, such as a sabre, scimitar or katana. But facing armored foes.... Either the strike will glance off the first guy doing no damage, or it will stick in the first guy and not carry through to any others.

 

The fact that there is a single instance of cleaving built into the game is already enough. A sideways power attack with a 2-handed sword, if anything, seems like it could realistically cause damage to multiple targets.

 

If you face too many guys... You could always Fus-Ro-Dah them.