Paid mods for skyrim workshop on steam

[miscdude]

 

 

 

 

 

Traitors like Chesko and Isoku are only going to pull their content if we bury their mods in terrible ratings, fill their inboxes to the brim every day, and make derivative ripoff mods of their content and encourage people to buy those instead (content that is maliciously designed to destroy the purchaser's game).

It's comments like these that make it completely impossible to take your cyber-punk-esque data war with mod authors seriously. Mod authors are not traitors just because they offer mods at a price-point, they're human beings operating in the real world. In the real world, time is money. You seem to have a grasp of that fact and the tendencies of people with regards to money. They are not forcing you to buy their mod, nor are you personally entitled to their time and effort just because things have been free in the past. Chesko in particular doesn't deserve any sort of negative backlash from people like you, seeing as he is still going to offer his mods for free. Valve might need to adjust their division of payment, but beyond that, the fire that mod authors are coming under is completely misplaced. You aren't going to completely dishevel the curated workshop by intentionally making bad mods any more than the people on steam discussions are going to solve anything by threatening death on anyone who puts a price point on mods. Yes, the system is unfair. Yes, it may have seriously negative effects on the future of modding. But this kind of response from people is going to do nothing but make it all worse and make mod authors not even want to bother producing things for people, free or otherwise.

 

MODDERS DON'T GET PAID, PERIOD.

 

If you are in modding for any reasons besides donating your creations to the community or to build a portfolio for REAL employment, you are in modding for the wrong reasons, and you should quit.

 

 

 

nor are you personally entitled to their time and effort just because things have been free in the past.

 

Actually it does. The only people who are feeling entitled here are the mod creators. Before Chesko was making mods, other people were making mods. Chesko probably played some of them, and I'll bet he didn't pay a single dime for them. Chesko started modding, and now I want you to tell me what makes HIS mods worthy of money that the previous generations of modders weren't? Nothing, that's what.

 

People got into modding knowing exactly what they were doing. If 'time is money' as you claim, and they didn't feel they were getting a return on their time, they wouldn't be modding. I have been playing with mods for various games for over two decades now, and almost nobody has ever charged for them. Now suddenly modders are entitled to being paid? No, they aren't. The status quo says that they aren't. They didn't start modding with any expectation of making money, so hearing them in here moaning and groaning that their time is so valuable is ridiculous. I know for a fact that their time isn't valuable, because twenty hours ago they were still working on their mods with zero expectation of getting paid.

 

Chesko absolutely deserves the flak. He's a traitor and he's helping bring Nexus down. He is one of the first names to be branded on what might be the most evil, unethical, twisted smelly dump any game company has EVER taken on gamers in the history of gaming. This is worse than Day 1 DLC, worse than Starforce DRM, worse than literally anything I can think of.

 

Valve will only support the pay-for Workshop for as long as content creators utilize it. 75% of any 'donation' you make to Chesko is going to Valve, for the glorious privilege of using their terrible service, and to Bethesda, who did literally nothing to earn any of that money. And Chesko is encouraging this.

 

 

 

But this kind of response from people is going to do nothing but make it all worse and make mod authors not even want to bother producing things for people, free or otherwise.

 

I would rather the entitled modders who think their time is worth more than anyone else's quit modding forever.

 

 

 

So your rationale is that because you've spent the past 20 years being able to use something that's been free, now that you -sometimes- have to pay for something, any and all people responsible are evil. Gotcha. Don't know why I bothered trying to apply logic to a viewpoint that seems to be constructed for the singular purpose of veiling the fact that you're used to things being free and just want them to continue to be. There is no status quo, there is no "MODDERS DONT GET PAID, PERIOD," there is no great conspiracy to try and destroy the nexus and everything it stands for. There are people, using their time to do things that they want to do. Incentives can range anywhere from personal satisfaction of accomplishing something, to wanting to share a fix for a game you think other people would enjoy as much as you would, to wanting to produce art, to wanting to make money off of something other people can enjoy, to literally any reason someone decides to make a mod. You can disagree with what someone thinks all you want, but intentionally trying to sabotage them and anyone who thinks like them because you disagree is not rational, it isn't civil, its just juvenile. Just because you've spent two decades getting things handed to you for free doesn't mean you just get that all the time forever because thats how it works. That's easily one of the most disturbing -- and apparently common -- entitled mindsets regarding other people's work I think I've ever heard. The free availability isn't done because its set in stone as how mods work, like a commandment chiseled in stone from the gods of intellectual property. it's just how things have worked. It's what people wanted, it's what made sense. People like being able to share something and the sense of community. Obviously there are plenty of people, mod authors included, who don't like the system and don't want to charge or be charged for mods, and they will continue to do things the way they've been done. A lot of people who use the nexus never use the workshop anyways, because the workshop and launcher-based downloading right into the data folder is clumsy, annoying, and doesn't work with MO. This monetization does nothing but add another variable into whether or not a user is going to download a mod from the workshop. Money or not, you do not own the time and effort mod authors put into making mods. It is their choice to make things available to the public, their choice if they want to have certain features benefit more people, and their choice if they want to charge for it. Period. This public outrage towards authors who monetize their mods is on par with sending someone death threats because they decided to take down their mod page. Yeah, it might suck, but that's no reason to get so hostile. Whatever validity your point might've had is completely shattered by your ideology of imposing your ridiculous scriptures of how things have to work, not to mention your intended retribution, on other people simply because you disagree with what they're doing. It's like lighting an art gallery on fire and flogging the artist because one of the paintings inside wasn't free.

Edited April 24, 2015 by miscdude

[Arocide]

No issue with paid mods over here, but I don't see it taking off for a long time if at all. People will either upload them elsewhere, Spout hatred at the authors for being 'greedy' or there will be asset disputes which would have to be moderated or ignored... It may work out in the long run but buckle up cause it's gonna be a bumpy ride!

 

EDIT: This may sound funny but I've always looked at Bethesdas Modding stance as 'we tolerate it as it gets us cashflow'.... this sorta reinforces that notion to me.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Arocide

[RurikNiall]

Teal Deer says "Modders should be allowed to profit from their work."

 

I think there are frankly bigger issues with this nonsense than the ideologies of free vs paid content, because what Valve is doing here is despicable no matter what your stance on that is. Even if you feel modders should be allowed to profit off their creations the fact remains that Valve is screwing them over, the modder gets a whopping 25% of the profit from the sale of their mod, and they only get paid if their sales reach $400, of which they'll only see $100, the other 75% goes straight into the pockets of Valve and Bethesda for doing absolutely nothing.

[Arocide]

So it is 25% 75%.... typical. Same as DotA 2 sales.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Arocide

[Fistitron]

So it is 25% 75%.... typical. Same as DotA 2 sales.

It being typical doesn't mean its right.

 

In a week, a donation drive for Minecraft mods earned enough to basically silence any complaining about people making modpacks for the rest of eternity. Valve bans mods that dare have donation pages elsewhere for people to have it

 

Quite frankly as an oldschool Warcraft 3 and NWN modder, this whole thing doesn't sit right with me at all. I'd support donations easily, but purchasing mods that could, quite frankly, ruin your game and all your saves? This is going to end poorly.

[Arocide]

 

So it is 25% 75%.... typical. Same as DotA 2 sales.

It being typical doesn't mean its right.

 

Oh don't get me wrong I don't mean typical as in it's right I meant typical of Valve to always take their cut.

[miscdude]

 

Quite frankly as an oldschool Warcraft 3 and NWN modder, this whole thing doesn't sit right with me at all. I'd support donations easily, but purchasing mods that could, quite frankly, ruin your game and all your saves? This is going to end poorly.

 

That seems like a much more legitimate problem. Even without people intentionally making mods that can ruin game stability to fight the system, there are so many ways that mods can break that can happen little by little. Save game bloat is a big one. It'll take user reports from people dissecting the available mods to determine the cause, which could take well beyond the 24 hour refund period, not to mention result in people paying for something that gets taken down later. Not that Skyrim isn't fundamentally flawed in the way that it handles things anyways, but it seems like it would be impossible to actually maintain a level of quality assurance and compatibility, that you would think you kind of pay for, in a game where it is actually impossible without downloading fixes and custom tailoring your game just to be stable on your system. The way it's set up is kind of doomed to fail without solutions to these problems.

[BigBizkit]

I really wonder how they came up with the 25/75. I mean the calculation must have been something like:

 

1. Points to make

 

+ Bethesda created the game; all assets (yeah I know about the engine but you get the point)

 

+ Bethesda created the CK; the means to mod

 

+ Valve serves the hosting plattform

 

- Mod authors (ideally/expectedly) own the intellectual property and deliver the actual product

 

-> First conclusion: evidently both companies do deserve some cut

 

2. How much should the cut be (from their point of view)

 

Costs

 

+ Hosting costs (pennies)

 

+ administrative costs -> quality control, theft control etc.

 

+ dissatisfaction of customers / potential future customers / fan reaction -> hard to estimate, but it is a factor

 

So, apparently, they believe they need to take 75% to make it worth going through the hassle of implementation and fan outlash.

 

My guess is that this really is the testdrive and that this is a long, long-term strategy and the actual (massive) financial rewards are to be reaped in the future with future gaming titles that will be launched well after payed modding has become the norm. Because let's face it, eventually the storm will pass and noone is going to boycott steam (pseudo monopoly is hard to boycott) or not buy TES VI, Fallout 4, because of it.

[Arocide]

<snip>

 

They also give a reason for the $400 revenue.. it costs them each time they transfer funds so they decided it's only worth transferring payouts of $100 or more, and beyond that you only get paid out on the 30th of the month so if for example you had a $98 payout on the 30th and it pushed over to $100 on the 31st you apparently won't see any of that until the next pay cycle... Seems more trouble then it's worth personally.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Arocide

[Njorunn]

 

 

 

 

 

Traitors like Chesko and Isoku are only going to pull their content if we bury their mods in terrible ratings, fill their inboxes to the brim every day, and make derivative ripoff mods of their content and encourage people to buy those instead (content that is maliciously designed to destroy the purchaser's game).

It's comments like these that make it completely impossible to take your cyber-punk-esque data war with mod authors seriously. Mod authors are not traitors just because they offer mods at a price-point, they're human beings operating in the real world. In the real world, time is money. You seem to have a grasp of that fact and the tendencies of people with regards to money. They are not forcing you to buy their mod, nor are you personally entitled to their time and effort just because things have been free in the past. Chesko in particular doesn't deserve any sort of negative backlash from people like you, seeing as he is still going to offer his mods for free. Valve might need to adjust their division of payment, but beyond that, the fire that mod authors are coming under is completely misplaced. You aren't going to completely dishevel the curated workshop by intentionally making bad mods any more than the people on steam discussions are going to solve anything by threatening death on anyone who puts a price point on mods. Yes, the system is unfair. Yes, it may have seriously negative effects on the future of modding. But this kind of response from people is going to do nothing but make it all worse and make mod authors not even want to bother producing things for people, free or otherwise.

 

MODDERS DON'T GET PAID, PERIOD.

 

If you are in modding for any reasons besides donating your creations to the community or to build a portfolio for REAL employment, you are in modding for the wrong reasons, and you should quit.

 

 

 

nor are you personally entitled to their time and effort just because things have been free in the past.

 

Actually it does. The only people who are feeling entitled here are the mod creators. Before Chesko was making mods, other people were making mods. Chesko probably played some of them, and I'll bet he didn't pay a single dime for them. Chesko started modding, and now I want you to tell me what makes HIS mods worthy of money that the previous generations of modders weren't? Nothing, that's what.

 

People got into modding knowing exactly what they were doing. If 'time is money' as you claim, and they didn't feel they were getting a return on their time, they wouldn't be modding. I have been playing with mods for various games for over two decades now, and almost nobody has ever charged for them. Now suddenly modders are entitled to being paid? No, they aren't. The status quo says that they aren't. They didn't start modding with any expectation of making money, so hearing them in here moaning and groaning that their time is so valuable is ridiculous. I know for a fact that their time isn't valuable, because twenty hours ago they were still working on their mods with zero expectation of getting paid.

 

Chesko absolutely deserves the flak. He's a traitor and he's helping bring Nexus down. He is one of the first names to be branded on what might be the most evil, unethical, twisted smelly dump any game company has EVER taken on gamers in the history of gaming. This is worse than Day 1 DLC, worse than Starforce DRM, worse than literally anything I can think of.

 

Valve will only support the pay-for Workshop for as long as content creators utilize it. 75% of any 'donation' you make to Chesko is going to Valve, for the glorious privilege of using their terrible service, and to Bethesda, who did literally nothing to earn any of that money. And Chesko is encouraging this.

 

 

 

But this kind of response from people is going to do nothing but make it all worse and make mod authors not even want to bother producing things for people, free or otherwise.

 

I would rather the entitled modders who think their time is worth more than anyone else's quit modding forever.

 

 

 

So your rationale is that because you've spent the past 20 years being able to use something that's been free, now that you -sometimes- have to pay for something, any and all people responsible are evil. Gotcha. Don't know why I bothered trying to apply logic to a viewpoint that seems to be constructed for the singular purpose of veiling the fact that you're used to things being free and just want them to continue to be. There is no status quo, there is no "MODDERS DONT GET PAID, PERIOD," there is no great conspiracy to try and destroy the nexus and everything it stands for. There are people, using their time to do things that they want to do. Incentives can range anywhere from personal satisfaction of accomplishing something, to wanting to share a fix for a game you think other people would enjoy as much as you would, to wanting to produce art, to wanting to make money off of something other people can enjoy, to literally any reason someone decides to make a mod. You can disagree with what someone thinks all you want, but intentionally trying to sabotage them and anyone who thinks like them because you disagree is not rational, it isn't civil, its just juvenile. Just because you've spent two decades getting things handed to you for free doesn't mean you just get that all the time forever because thats how it works. That's easily one of the most disturbing -- and apparently common -- entitled mindsets regarding other people's work I think I've ever heard. The free availability isn't done because its set in stone as how mods work, like a commandment chiseled in stone from the gods of intellectual property. it's just how things have worked. It's what people wanted, it's what made sense. People like being able to share something and the sense of community. Obviously there are plenty of people, mod authors included, who don't like the system and don't want to charge or be charged for mods, and they will continue to do things the way they've been done. A lot of people who use the nexus never use the workshop anyways, because the workshop and launcher-based downloading right into the data folder is clumsy, annoying, and doesn't work with MO. This monetization does nothing but add another variable into whether or not a user is going to download a mod from the workshop. Money or not, you do not own the time and effort mod authors put into making mods. It is their choice to make things available to the public, their choice if they want to have certain features benefit more people, and their choice if they want to charge for it. Period. This public outrage towards authors who monetize their mods is on par with sending someone death threats because they decided to take down their mod page. Yeah, it might suck, but that's no reason to get so hostile. Whatever validity your point might've had is completely shattered by your ideology of imposing your ridiculous scriptures of how things have to work, not to mention your intended retribution, on other people simply because you disagree with what they're doing. It's like lighting an art gallery on fire and flogging the artist because one of the paintings inside wasn't free.

 

Don't forget that it's the big corporations that are trying to impose this new standard - not modders themselves. They do this mainly for personal profit - using modders. It's absurd in so many ways.

If a big majority of modders would band together and decide this - it would have been a completely different thing.