Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

[mrinanis]

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620854, #24620909, #24621039, #24621124, #24621969, #24622244, #24622359, #24622569 are all replies on the same post.

phenderix wrote:

BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.

As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and apart from questioning whether you feel it totally justified to advertise Steam Workshop on the Nexus, I would like to ask if you think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.

To pay rent with.

Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?

Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :)

phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

BluemaxDR wrote:

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Like kickstarter....smart.

Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well.

Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles.
"Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click?

OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).

I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.

Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?.

phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)


MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless.

Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.

butthead123 wrote: Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :(

Maruun wrote: I cant be angry about it i just hope it wont bite you later...

Yerevans wrote: In the college, regarding IT in business, we have discussions regarding strategies companies use to transfer costs and work to customers to profit more.
This is such strategy in place, Bethesda does not care anymore about Skyrim, they want free and easy money, as does Valve.

This will stimulate companies to release more broken and half finished games, not that the community will not only fix it to them for free, as they will actually profit more for people doing it.

That is not modding anymore, that is 3rd party DLC, outsourcing activities, reducing exposure and liability.

I would love to hear from you if you are actually getting any reasonable amount of money, most likely you will, but philosophically I despite this, as whenever people compete by finite resources things go ugly.

But I guess this is the real ugly truth of this era, where god was killed by reason and reason replaced by money, selfishness will always prevail upon altruism.
"Each to his own and God against all" this is the nature of the world and humanity.

Darkieus wrote: ...And unendorsed and uninstalled.

I don't like Workshop, and I don't like the idea of being forced to pay for a 'Mod' (which by this point is no longer a mod, but a DLC item).

I hope this system doesn't pass onto Fallout 4. Sorry.

Vault Tec wrote: I wish you luck in your endeavors as I'm one of the many refusing to 'buy' mods due to many reasons but I'd also like to mention, VALVe and Bethesda are getting 75% of that $3 you intend to charge. You aren't going to be earning much from your endeavors especially since it was discovered yesterday that a person can buy your mod, copy the files out of the Data folder and ask for a refund. They've got the mod for free at this point and you're out of pocket.

anonownsyou wrote: As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25%

Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

TheEyelessWanderer wrote: I'm going to take care to specifically not purchase, download, endorse, or promote anything you create.

(I suggest everyone else takes the same course of action. This individual followed the gold scent. We all know where it inevitably leads.)

Ghatto wrote: This is what I was afraid of happening. It not like I don't think modders deserve any compensation, or that they can't value their work financially. It's the transformation, the necessary consideration of it that every modder will now have and how that makes them a different kind of artist and a completely different member of a now fractured mod community. Before now I'd never heard nor thought of a modder 'in it for the money', that any of their mods were being advertised like product; it was always just something they made that would improve the game and the community was reciprocative in those efforts. Now those same modders will filling their own artistic visions of their mods with thought about how much they deserve for it, something they never had to, or wanted to do while they were lovingly making mods for fun/enjoyment/challenge etc.

Everything was fine until now. Mods that were made, were made. Mods that weren't made, weren't. The community doesn't 'need' to give back, because they were never taking - modders were only ever giving, in a community of only ever giving.

WileCoyote68 wrote: Hi phenderix,
My native language/mother tongue is german and because of this fact my choosen game language is german. You say you will release the new Version of your mod only via Steam Workshop and Paid Content. Now one simple question to you: Will your mod being available as a multi-lingual version on the Workshoip? If not, then why the hell should a german, italian, french.... customer pay for it? I can understand that you have putted a lot of work in your creations, but going behind the pay wall should inlcude that you provide the same service as Bethesda did when they released Skyrim and the DLC's. If this is not a legitimate concern for you, then everything you said about your decision is only a lie. Then you care only about the money and nothing more

UnitedStrafes wrote: Never paid for a mod never will, not in Skyrim and not in Fallout 4, When I start making mods which I plan to do for Fallout It won't be because I'm expecting some compensation. Steam is full of bad ideas lately and is turning from something that was very cool into video game Wal-Mart sad really.

It's nice you spent so much time making your mod and I hope you do well, but anyone needing to be compensated for modding leads to me not needing that mod........EVER.

Draugas wrote: I'm not going to say whether or not I agree, I wish you luck.

But.

I do think you do yourself a diservice by choosing to do this *now*.

This is new, people are in an uproar, Valvthesda is exploiting modders with the percentage (opinion).

Are the potential repercussions worth putting your mod up on day two of the storm?

Silki08 wrote: Hi, I'm essentially someone genuinely trying to understand the shift. Things may be rough right now and I hope that through some of my questions you can alleviate some issues about modders going through the payment option on Steam Workshop. I'll try to organize this as best I can for your benefit.

1. To make a hobby into a career is a dream many people have in the world. However, being paid such a paltry amount for something that is essentially your design and creation seems like you are being taken advantage of. Has there been any negotiations on the part of mod authors to get a better share of the profits?

[in my opinion, for modders to be paid for putting comprehensive, functional, and revolutionary mods is a good thing. Being paid for it with something that seems even more extreme than indentured servitude seems wrong.]

2. Do you think this will effect modding for future games? Many gamers would feel that essential mods may one day be behind a paywall. For example, the new elder scrolls or fallout games may have a weak UI system. This prompts the SkyUI team to develop a better UI for the game. However this new UI mod will be behind a paywall from day one. Perhaps there is a framework that allows for mods to work in a cohesive form but must be bought to make a multitude of mods to work together. Is this acceptable in your opinion?

3. Many mods are a combined effort with those who have a distinct passion for their creation. How would the distribution of income be handled should their be assets from another mod that is free located within a mod that has been monetized?

4. How much of a cut do you think creators of these mods should have? If 25% is acceptable skip this question.

5. Many people feel that they are not actually supporting the mod authors by only having 25% of the commission go to the authors themselves. If more people donated from the start, would you have opted in this program?

6. In light of question 5. How many people actually have donated to you over your modding career?

7. How many hours have you spent on modding? This includes time spent on support, compatibility, and communication with the community.

8. In your opinion, is Valve and Bethesda doing this for the benefit of the modding community or for themselves?

9. In your opinion, should an item mod be the same price as an expansive mod? For comparisons sake, an armor mod vs a quest mod that includes: Armor, weapons, characters, buildings, locations, etc.

10. Some may argue that modding is for the community. That a group of individuals come together to make something that people with a common interest can enjoy. Do you think by going through this route, this is still possible? For example disagreements between collaborators may now increase because of this monetization option.

11. Multilingual support is usually done without the original authors help. Will multilingual support for all incredibly popular mods completely cease?

phenderix wrote: I genuinely think that this is a very good thing for the modding community.

More people will put in more time to creating better mods for Skyrim. I would gladly pay $5-10 for more mods like Falskar or Alternate Start.

I recently got a job in NYC financial district and have no where near as much time as I used to have to mod. This makes it a more compelling case to mod even when I don't have much free time anymore.

I will be using the premium version as a sort of kickstarter type campaign to fund more features added to the mod. I will be adding new worldspace and many new spells and features if people support the mod.

My mod doesn't simply add one item or do something very simple. It adds over 300 new spells to the game along with perks and other scripted features. All bug-free as of latest version. This is something I think people should want to purchase.

I understand the points a lot of you are making. I think that once this all settles that it will be an overall good thing. The 25% thing is a little ridiculous but I bet that this will eventually increase over time. I have no problem with Bethesda getting at least 50% since they created the game and creation kit to allow me to mod.

phantompally76 wrote: I can only disagree, emphatically. But that's not going to change your mind.

I won't be downloading, installing, or endorsing your mods anymore.

And frankly, that goes for anyone else that buys into this horsecrap. No matter how much you want to make yourselves believe that you're helping the modding community.....you're effectively killing it, and I REFUSE to be complicit in this betrayal.

phenderix wrote: Some very strong words. Thanks for the unendorse :)

CommanderJuraks wrote: The game creators and the file site "hosters" by far should be getting the larger portion of the cut, they literally made the game and are hosting/sharing your file(s) for download without them doing 80% of the leg work to make the mod possible in the first place there wouldn't even be a mod.

I personally don't like the concept of paying for something that was originally intended to be free and a hobby. Should the community be more gratuitous towards mod authors, absolutely but it shouldn't drive them(mod authors) to the point of hiding their works behind a pay-wall of any sort. Because let's face it, most mods aren't worth the money. While most of the mods in the "Top 100" lists here on the nexus are worth 1 dollar to 8 dollars that is just a fraction of a percent of the mods on the skyrim nexus alone that worth that bit of money. I'd rather be prompted to donate as thanks than be forced to pay for a retexture of someone else's work. My main fear with these new developments(paying for mods) is that almost every tom, dick, and harry mod maker will go hide behind a pay-wall even when the mod isn't even worth paying for.

That all being said, I appreciate modders and what they do my solution to this situation works something like this. Youtube video authors receive payment for how many views their videos get within a given period of time. The more "subscribers" they have the more almost guaranteed views they have. Why not work something out like that with the nexus?
Where if you endorse or give kudos to a specific author you get a notification every time that author uploads/updates a file. Mod authors would be payed on how many views or downloads their mods get in a given period of time(ex: a month or two weeks). The behind the scenes of how the pay would come out of the Nexus' total revenue could be worked out similarily to, again, how youtube does it. MEANING: I'd rather see mod authors paid in similar fashion to how youtube channel/video authors are being payed.

While the nexus may not like losing a bit of it's total profit this is a viable alternative to letting mod authors hide behind pay-walls whether the mod is worth the price or not.

I hope it works out for the best of the entire community and doesn't create a union of lazy people screaming for a handout or larger commission.

phantompally76 wrote: Oh, you're more than welcome, sir. Good day.

phenderix wrote: @CommanderJuraks
I completely agree with a lot of the points you listed.
That is why only one of my mods is making this transition.
The other 7 are remaining Nexus exclusives and forever free.

jet4571 wrote: Good luck seeing that happen.

A bit of advice for you, if you are not modding for your own game then releasing because others may enjoy it as well then you are doing it wrong. If your motivation is recognition and money then grab either the Unreal or Unity engine and make something you own and sell it. You will get the recognition if the game is good and make far more than the %25 Beth and Valve is offering.

I have been modding since Windows 95 was the latest OS and Win 98 was just around the corner, Had Paypal donations available since 2006 I think and not received one donation and during the mid 2000's I was making complete game overhauls that took a year or more to make without a proper SDK like the CK. As in Hex editor was an essential tool to get every 3D model working. Not a single donation for 4 years spending almost every free moment creating lists in a text editor and changing 3d Models in a hex editor. And you know what? Even if those were the top downloaded mods for the 3 games they were made for that's perfectly fine. Why? Because I did it for myself first. I have an unfinished game using the Unreal engine that I can work on but making it for a job just isn't as fun.

I hope you understand that I am offering advice on how to keep modding fun and still have a place for creating something for recognition and money and that none of this was an attack. I do feel you are modding for the wrong reasons and that's why the donations thing gets to you.

cplfernandez wrote: If people really believed in the donate option, wouldn't they be lining up to donat money to you in order to try to change your mind? Is that happening?

jfisha wrote: If you're giving some money to SkyUI for use of their MCM, don't forget to kickback some to SKSE, since the MCM relies on that

akkalat85 wrote: Hold it man, that's not cool. Not about you uploading the workshop, who cares... but about you using this nexus topic as a means to promote a 3rd party pay site. You advertising "future" features like that here is pretty shady.

Valve is giving you all the boost you need, but to come to a free site and self promote your paid product is just low.

phenderix wrote: @jet4571
Thanks for the comment. I think that is one reason I have decided to do this. I mainly mod for other people instead of myself. It is not really that exciting to use spells that you created.

@cplfernandez
Donation does not work, period. I have received one donation in almost 3 years of modding. People act like the system is fine, but never donate. Some other model needs to be implemented. If one were introduced I would definitely listen.

@akkalat85
Once again, this makes no sense. If my mod gets a purchase on the Steam Workshop the Skyrim Nexus will receive part of the revenue. Please research how the new system will work.

akkalat85 wrote: @phenderix: So far no one has brought fourth evidence for that claim. You will have to excuse my disbelief, but I don't believe things just because someone said so. If you have a link, please share it.

If a mod author lists the nexus as an influential figure in helping them in their modding hobby they can opt to list them, just as people have listed AFK mods (who also runs a free service), You could list google if you wanted too.

Impulseman45 wrote: I can understand putting allot of time into modding. I have put hundreds of hours into making meshes that are now on permanent hold because of possible theft by the creeps at the Steam Workshop. Anyone who has a mod and it gets put behind that pay-wall without their consent will never get it taken down. Vavle has all but said all mods are far game to steal the content from. So you are joining the side that is going to steal its way to power. Someone has already stolen and posted Soolies Real Clouds mod there today. And, do you realize that they own your mods from now on. Just look at what Chesko said about trying to take his mod down. They got what they wanted from him and that is what they will with you. Good luck. Your going to need it.

phenderix wrote: After getting over 50 comments and messages and many respectful responses I have changed my mind and will keep all of my mods free and Nexus exclusive. I trust Nexus staff to have a good solution to this problem.

JohnnyH1982 wrote: welp, good luck to you. I just unsubscribed from all Steam Workshop mods from all games supported and I don't plan on going back. I respect your hustle, but I don't agree at all with Valves implementation. And I do say best of luck, with good intentions, I am not being snarky or disingenuous.
Ciao

Impulseman45 wrote: Bravo, I hope my comment had a little input on things, but everyone should be thrilled that you made this change of heart. I only hope other modders do the same. Here is crossing finger and toes.

WightMage wrote: Seriously?

As in, no sarcasm intended?

Then, I am glad you were able to see reason, friend. And besides, even if you do want to eventually be paid for your work, now is the worst possible time.

It would be like studying abroad in a country during a civil war.

imho if you want to be paid for a mod you shoule asking for donations.

if you want a real s mod then you should ork in the gaming industry and NOT make mods... but DLCs Edited April 25, 2015 by mrinanis

[AKcelsior]

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620854, #24620909, #24621039, #24621124, #24621969, #24622244, #24622359, #24622569, #24622584 are all replies on the same post.

phenderix wrote:

BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.

As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and apart from questioning whether you feel it totally justified to advertise Steam Workshop on the Nexus, I would like to ask if you think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.

To pay rent with.

Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?

Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :)

phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

BluemaxDR wrote:

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Like kickstarter....smart.

Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well.

Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles.
"Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click?

OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).

I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.

Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?.

phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)


MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless.

Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.

butthead123 wrote: Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :(

Maruun wrote: I cant be angry about it i just hope it wont bite you later...

Yerevans wrote: In the college, regarding IT in business, we have discussions regarding strategies companies use to transfer costs and work to customers to profit more.
This is such strategy in place, Bethesda does not care anymore about Skyrim, they want free and easy money, as does Valve.

This will stimulate companies to release more broken and half finished games, not that the community will not only fix it to them for free, as they will actually profit more for people doing it.

That is not modding anymore, that is 3rd party DLC, outsourcing activities, reducing exposure and liability.

I would love to hear from you if you are actually getting any reasonable amount of money, most likely you will, but philosophically I despite this, as whenever people compete by finite resources things go ugly.

But I guess this is the real ugly truth of this era, where god was killed by reason and reason replaced by money, selfishness will always prevail upon altruism.
"Each to his own and God against all" this is the nature of the world and humanity.

Darkieus wrote: ...And unendorsed and uninstalled.

I don't like Workshop, and I don't like the idea of being forced to pay for a 'Mod' (which by this point is no longer a mod, but a DLC item).

I hope this system doesn't pass onto Fallout 4. Sorry.

Vault Tec wrote: I wish you luck in your endeavors as I'm one of the many refusing to 'buy' mods due to many reasons but I'd also like to mention, VALVe and Bethesda are getting 75% of that $3 you intend to charge. You aren't going to be earning much from your endeavors especially since it was discovered yesterday that a person can buy your mod, copy the files out of the Data folder and ask for a refund. They've got the mod for free at this point and you're out of pocket.

anonownsyou wrote: As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25%

Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

TheEyelessWanderer wrote: I'm going to take care to specifically not purchase, download, endorse, or promote anything you create.

(I suggest everyone else takes the same course of action. This individual followed the gold scent. We all know where it inevitably leads.)

Ghatto wrote: This is what I was afraid of happening. It not like I don't think modders deserve any compensation, or that they can't value their work financially. It's the transformation, the necessary consideration of it that every modder will now have and how that makes them a different kind of artist and a completely different member of a now fractured mod community. Before now I'd never heard nor thought of a modder 'in it for the money', that any of their mods were being advertised like product; it was always just something they made that would improve the game and the community was reciprocative in those efforts. Now those same modders will filling their own artistic visions of their mods with thought about how much they deserve for it, something they never had to, or wanted to do while they were lovingly making mods for fun/enjoyment/challenge etc.

Everything was fine until now. Mods that were made, were made. Mods that weren't made, weren't. The community doesn't 'need' to give back, because they were never taking - modders were only ever giving, in a community of only ever giving.

WileCoyote68 wrote: Hi phenderix,
My native language/mother tongue is german and because of this fact my choosen game language is german. You say you will release the new Version of your mod only via Steam Workshop and Paid Content. Now one simple question to you: Will your mod being available as a multi-lingual version on the Workshoip? If not, then why the hell should a german, italian, french.... customer pay for it? I can understand that you have putted a lot of work in your creations, but going behind the pay wall should inlcude that you provide the same service as Bethesda did when they released Skyrim and the DLC's. If this is not a legitimate concern for you, then everything you said about your decision is only a lie. Then you care only about the money and nothing more

UnitedStrafes wrote: Never paid for a mod never will, not in Skyrim and not in Fallout 4, When I start making mods which I plan to do for Fallout It won't be because I'm expecting some compensation. Steam is full of bad ideas lately and is turning from something that was very cool into video game Wal-Mart sad really.

It's nice you spent so much time making your mod and I hope you do well, but anyone needing to be compensated for modding leads to me not needing that mod........EVER.

Draugas wrote: I'm not going to say whether or not I agree, I wish you luck.

But.

I do think you do yourself a diservice by choosing to do this *now*.

This is new, people are in an uproar, Valvthesda is exploiting modders with the percentage (opinion).

Are the potential repercussions worth putting your mod up on day two of the storm?

Silki08 wrote: Hi, I'm essentially someone genuinely trying to understand the shift. Things may be rough right now and I hope that through some of my questions you can alleviate some issues about modders going through the payment option on Steam Workshop. I'll try to organize this as best I can for your benefit.

1. To make a hobby into a career is a dream many people have in the world. However, being paid such a paltry amount for something that is essentially your design and creation seems like you are being taken advantage of. Has there been any negotiations on the part of mod authors to get a better share of the profits?

[in my opinion, for modders to be paid for putting comprehensive, functional, and revolutionary mods is a good thing. Being paid for it with something that seems even more extreme than indentured servitude seems wrong.]

2. Do you think this will effect modding for future games? Many gamers would feel that essential mods may one day be behind a paywall. For example, the new elder scrolls or fallout games may have a weak UI system. This prompts the SkyUI team to develop a better UI for the game. However this new UI mod will be behind a paywall from day one. Perhaps there is a framework that allows for mods to work in a cohesive form but must be bought to make a multitude of mods to work together. Is this acceptable in your opinion?

3. Many mods are a combined effort with those who have a distinct passion for their creation. How would the distribution of income be handled should their be assets from another mod that is free located within a mod that has been monetized?

4. How much of a cut do you think creators of these mods should have? If 25% is acceptable skip this question.

5. Many people feel that they are not actually supporting the mod authors by only having 25% of the commission go to the authors themselves. If more people donated from the start, would you have opted in this program?

6. In light of question 5. How many people actually have donated to you over your modding career?

7. How many hours have you spent on modding? This includes time spent on support, compatibility, and communication with the community.

8. In your opinion, is Valve and Bethesda doing this for the benefit of the modding community or for themselves?

9. In your opinion, should an item mod be the same price as an expansive mod? For comparisons sake, an armor mod vs a quest mod that includes: Armor, weapons, characters, buildings, locations, etc.

10. Some may argue that modding is for the community. That a group of individuals come together to make something that people with a common interest can enjoy. Do you think by going through this route, this is still possible? For example disagreements between collaborators may now increase because of this monetization option.

11. Multilingual support is usually done without the original authors help. Will multilingual support for all incredibly popular mods completely cease?

phenderix wrote: I genuinely think that this is a very good thing for the modding community.

More people will put in more time to creating better mods for Skyrim. I would gladly pay $5-10 for more mods like Falskar or Alternate Start.

I recently got a job in NYC financial district and have no where near as much time as I used to have to mod. This makes it a more compelling case to mod even when I don't have much free time anymore.

I will be using the premium version as a sort of kickstarter type campaign to fund more features added to the mod. I will be adding new worldspace and many new spells and features if people support the mod.

My mod doesn't simply add one item or do something very simple. It adds over 300 new spells to the game along with perks and other scripted features. All bug-free as of latest version. This is something I think people should want to purchase.

I understand the points a lot of you are making. I think that once this all settles that it will be an overall good thing. The 25% thing is a little ridiculous but I bet that this will eventually increase over time. I have no problem with Bethesda getting at least 50% since they created the game and creation kit to allow me to mod.

phantompally76 wrote: I can only disagree, emphatically. But that's not going to change your mind.

I won't be downloading, installing, or endorsing your mods anymore.

And frankly, that goes for anyone else that buys into this horsecrap. No matter how much you want to make yourselves believe that you're helping the modding community.....you're effectively killing it, and I REFUSE to be complicit in this betrayal.

phenderix wrote: Some very strong words. Thanks for the unendorse :)

CommanderJuraks wrote: The game creators and the file site "hosters" by far should be getting the larger portion of the cut, they literally made the game and are hosting/sharing your file(s) for download without them doing 80% of the leg work to make the mod possible in the first place there wouldn't even be a mod.

I personally don't like the concept of paying for something that was originally intended to be free and a hobby. Should the community be more gratuitous towards mod authors, absolutely but it shouldn't drive them(mod authors) to the point of hiding their works behind a pay-wall of any sort. Because let's face it, most mods aren't worth the money. While most of the mods in the "Top 100" lists here on the nexus are worth 1 dollar to 8 dollars that is just a fraction of a percent of the mods on the skyrim nexus alone that worth that bit of money. I'd rather be prompted to donate as thanks than be forced to pay for a retexture of someone else's work. My main fear with these new developments(paying for mods) is that almost every tom, dick, and harry mod maker will go hide behind a pay-wall even when the mod isn't even worth paying for.

That all being said, I appreciate modders and what they do my solution to this situation works something like this. Youtube video authors receive payment for how many views their videos get within a given period of time. The more "subscribers" they have the more almost guaranteed views they have. Why not work something out like that with the nexus?
Where if you endorse or give kudos to a specific author you get a notification every time that author uploads/updates a file. Mod authors would be payed on how many views or downloads their mods get in a given period of time(ex: a month or two weeks). The behind the scenes of how the pay would come out of the Nexus' total revenue could be worked out similarily to, again, how youtube does it. MEANING: I'd rather see mod authors paid in similar fashion to how youtube channel/video authors are being payed.

While the nexus may not like losing a bit of it's total profit this is a viable alternative to letting mod authors hide behind pay-walls whether the mod is worth the price or not.

I hope it works out for the best of the entire community and doesn't create a union of lazy people screaming for a handout or larger commission.

phantompally76 wrote: Oh, you're more than welcome, sir. Good day.

phenderix wrote: @CommanderJuraks
I completely agree with a lot of the points you listed.
That is why only one of my mods is making this transition.
The other 7 are remaining Nexus exclusives and forever free.

jet4571 wrote: Good luck seeing that happen.

A bit of advice for you, if you are not modding for your own game then releasing because others may enjoy it as well then you are doing it wrong. If your motivation is recognition and money then grab either the Unreal or Unity engine and make something you own and sell it. You will get the recognition if the game is good and make far more than the %25 Beth and Valve is offering.

I have been modding since Windows 95 was the latest OS and Win 98 was just around the corner, Had Paypal donations available since 2006 I think and not received one donation and during the mid 2000's I was making complete game overhauls that took a year or more to make without a proper SDK like the CK. As in Hex editor was an essential tool to get every 3D model working. Not a single donation for 4 years spending almost every free moment creating lists in a text editor and changing 3d Models in a hex editor. And you know what? Even if those were the top downloaded mods for the 3 games they were made for that's perfectly fine. Why? Because I did it for myself first. I have an unfinished game using the Unreal engine that I can work on but making it for a job just isn't as fun.

I hope you understand that I am offering advice on how to keep modding fun and still have a place for creating something for recognition and money and that none of this was an attack. I do feel you are modding for the wrong reasons and that's why the donations thing gets to you.

cplfernandez wrote: If people really believed in the donate option, wouldn't they be lining up to donat money to you in order to try to change your mind? Is that happening?

jfisha wrote: If you're giving some money to SkyUI for use of their MCM, don't forget to kickback some to SKSE, since the MCM relies on that

akkalat85 wrote: Hold it man, that's not cool. Not about you uploading the workshop, who cares... but about you using this nexus topic as a means to promote a 3rd party pay site. You advertising "future" features like that here is pretty shady.

Valve is giving you all the boost you need, but to come to a free site and self promote your paid product is just low.

phenderix wrote: @jet4571
Thanks for the comment. I think that is one reason I have decided to do this. I mainly mod for other people instead of myself. It is not really that exciting to use spells that you created.

@cplfernandez
Donation does not work, period. I have received one donation in almost 3 years of modding. People act like the system is fine, but never donate. Some other model needs to be implemented. If one were introduced I would definitely listen.

@akkalat85
Once again, this makes no sense. If my mod gets a purchase on the Steam Workshop the Skyrim Nexus will receive part of the revenue. Please research how the new system will work.

akkalat85 wrote: @phenderix: So far no one has brought fourth evidence for that claim. You will have to excuse my disbelief, but I don't believe things just because someone said so. If you have a link, please share it.

If a mod author lists the nexus as an influential figure in helping them in their modding hobby they can opt to list them, just as people have listed AFK mods (who also runs a free service), You could list google if you wanted too.

Impulseman45 wrote: I can understand putting allot of time into modding. I have put hundreds of hours into making meshes that are now on permanent hold because of possible theft by the creeps at the Steam Workshop. Anyone who has a mod and it gets put behind that pay-wall without their consent will never get it taken down. Vavle has all but said all mods are far game to steal the content from. So you are joining the side that is going to steal its way to power. Someone has already stolen and posted Soolies Real Clouds mod there today. And, do you realize that they own your mods from now on. Just look at what Chesko said about trying to take his mod down. They got what they wanted from him and that is what they will with you. Good luck. Your going to need it.

phenderix wrote: After getting over 50 comments and messages and many respectful responses I have changed my mind and will keep all of my mods free and Nexus exclusive. I trust Nexus staff to have a good solution to this problem.

JohnnyH1982 wrote: welp, good luck to you. I just unsubscribed from all Steam Workshop mods from all games supported and I don't plan on going back. I respect your hustle, but I don't agree at all with Valves implementation. And I do say best of luck, with good intentions, I am not being snarky or disingenuous.
Ciao

Impulseman45 wrote: Bravo, I hope my comment had a little input on things, but everyone should be thrilled that you made this change of heart. I only hope other modders do the same. Here is crossing finger and toes.

WightMage wrote: Seriously?

As in, no sarcasm intended?

Then, I am glad you were able to see reason, friend. And besides, even if you do want to eventually be paid for your work, now is the worst possible time.

It would be like studying abroad in a country during a civil war.

mrinanis wrote: imho if you want to be paid for a mod you shoule asking for donations.

if you want a real s mod then you should ork in the gaming industry and NOT make mods... but DLCs

Wight is absolutely correct. The community is throwing labels and slurs like my ex throws babies. Now is not a great time to add anyone's name to the workshop.

Your unexpected change of heart is not only shocking, but is inspiring. Here, have a kudos.

So far I've speculated on some of the issues mod authors would soon be facing after joining hands with Valve...

For example what would happen if a mod author releases a paid mod on workshop and then let's say he/she gets banned from Steam. Because Valve now owns your property, a consequence of this could be legal ramification if you then at some point uploaded an updated version to the nexus, or any site for that matter. Even though the creative mind was you, you technically don't own your own mod any longer and if Valve wanted to get nasty they could send you desist letters.

Or in the case of Fores, his animations will forever be uploaded to the workshop against his will. Anyone that purchased Chesko's fishing mod will forever have access to Fore's animation even though Fore will never see a penny. What's worse, what's to stop one of users with that file from then using those animations in their own personal mod. The expectations that we are going to police ourselves is ludicrous. Edited April 25, 2015 by akkalat85

[fgambler]

In response to post #24622409.

sparkleman wrote:

To make a game, then advertise and distribute you need to spend thousands (or even millions) of dollars. Modders don't spend nothing besides time. Do not try to compare both things.

By the way, lots of modders already got jobs in the gaming industry by doing excelent works for free. The closest example here is the Falskaar creator. Team Fortress, Counter Strike and Dota were also mods, and look where their creators are now. Edited April 25, 2015 by fgambler

[Tantalus010]

In response to post #24617279. #24618539, #24618579, #24618659, #24620524 are all replies on the same post.

Raycheetah wrote:

Brasscatcher wrote: While I find your viewpoint refreshing and provocative, I cannot help but point out that the way IP law works these days does not foster an air of sportsmanlike competition. Let someone prove to be a competitor to valve/bethsoft et al. The lawyers will come with DMCA claims, and sites will die.

If we keep modding a hobby, free, we are legally untouchable within certain boundaries; if we take Valve's silver, we invite a violent change to that status. Some chose to do that, for their own reasons, and I fear that by doing so, we've let the vampires in. I'm going to wait to see what comes of this change in paradigms before I publish a damn thing, that's for certain.

TheEyelessWanderer wrote: @Brasscatcher.


This. ^

Darkieus wrote: I need a lawyer, c'mere.

jonboy wrote: This storm has moved me to consider the time I have spent enjoying modded Skyrim (and other Bethesda games, and even older Total War games) and how the modder's work has greatly increased my enjoyment, and even driven me to purchase these games in the first place. These modder's are definitely worthy of some gratitude (donations), which I will start doing over this weekend.

Brasscatcher is right; this will turn into a legal fiasco for all involved. My fear is that modding will be destroyed as a result of that fiasco. It's at the very least going to be a PR nightmare for both Valve and Bethesda, and deservedly so.

[Deleted9904557User]

I will never pay for a mod. I have enough mods now. However, it's sad to see though that some I use are being moved to the Workshop and I'm not paying for updates. Sorry.

[WightMage]

In response to post #24621944.

Anataron wrote:

Well said.

[Deleted9904557User]

In response to post #24622409. #24622729 is also a reply to the same post.

sparkleman wrote:

fgambler wrote: To make a game, then advertise and distribute you need to spend thousands (or even millions) of dollars. Modders don't spend nothing besides time. Do not try to compare both things.

By the way, lots of modders already got jobs in the gaming industry by doing excelent works for free. The closest example here is the Falskaar creator. Team Fortress, Counter Strike and Dota were also mods, and look where their creators are now.

I just wanted to say I have a lot of respect right now for the Beyond Skyrim team. That is one exception I would make to paying for a mod. The only exception. Period.

[WightMage]

In response to post #24617279. #24618539, #24618579, #24618659, #24620524, #24622754 are all replies on the same post.

Raycheetah wrote:

Brasscatcher wrote: While I find your viewpoint refreshing and provocative, I cannot help but point out that the way IP law works these days does not foster an air of sportsmanlike competition. Let someone prove to be a competitor to valve/bethsoft et al. The lawyers will come with DMCA claims, and sites will die.

If we keep modding a hobby, free, we are legally untouchable within certain boundaries; if we take Valve's silver, we invite a violent change to that status. Some chose to do that, for their own reasons, and I fear that by doing so, we've let the vampires in. I'm going to wait to see what comes of this change in paradigms before I publish a damn thing, that's for certain.

TheEyelessWanderer wrote: @Brasscatcher.


This. ^

Darkieus wrote: I need a lawyer, c'mere.

jonboy wrote: This storm has moved me to consider the time I have spent enjoying modded Skyrim (and other Bethesda games, and even older Total War games) and how the modder's work has greatly increased my enjoyment, and even driven me to purchase these games in the first place. These modder's are definitely worthy of some gratitude (donations), which I will start doing over this weekend.

Tantalus010 wrote: Brasscatcher is right; this will turn into a legal fiasco for all involved. My fear is that modding will be destroyed as a result of that fiasco. It's at the very least going to be a PR nightmare for both Valve and Bethesda, and deservedly so.

Honestly, we should all probably be enjoying what we can out of the Nexus and our precious mods while we can, and donate to those people we can while there is still time.

You've brought up something important that I think we're forgetting- ultimately, we're all on borrowed time. Nothing lives forever.

[ghorlist]

Just curious but would it be legal to host both on steam and Nexus? That would maybe prevent people from stealing original author's mods and uploading them to steam.

[Deleted3507349User]

In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944, #24609039, #24609259, #24609439, #24609544, #24609824, #24609959, #24609974, #24610559, #24610884, #24610914, #24612029, #24612584, #24613009, #24613049, #24622364, #24622419 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: The lack of people understanding this is astounding.

Dark0ne wrote: Thanks for continuing to link it to people who are reading Chesko's good bye Reddit post without seeing my response. My feelings are that writing a full blown news post on the topic would make things worse, not better, at this time. I'll do it if it's really necessary, but I think for now, my responses in that Reddit thread have helped to clarify the situation.

I'm thankful to the couple of mod authors out of the current ones on the paywall site who have selected the Nexus as a Service Provider, and I promise/pledge to them that the money raised will be going towards paying for a new forum server setup. It definitely won't cover it, not by a long shot, but it's a nice little boost to that kitty fund. So thank you to them.

Obviously Chesko wanted to lose some flak by trying to point a finger at me. That's fine, he's had a rough time. But it was hardly helpful.

anonownsyou wrote: It's not hypocritical, it's just an opportunity for mod authors using the workshop to remember who their friends are, and make Valve give a little something back to those friends out of their own cut. It's very likely that if it weren't for the Nexus, those authors would not be in a position to sell their content in the first place (everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their work). It's really just a small courtesy to the Nexus, and if it helps even just a little bit to keep the Nexus healthy and free, then all the better. So long as it doesn't come with any kind of 'kiss our ass, love Valve' condition, then it's not blood money.

Kentsui wrote:

Still, it should have been brought up in one of the articles only for the sake of transparency.

Draugas wrote: Exactly anonownsyou. You put it better than I did.

I also want to thank Dark0ne for everything. Keep your chin and the hard work up.

BenevolentTyrant wrote: The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

mALX1 wrote: It isn't hypocritical at all, and it is smart business because no one can change the Valve-Bethesda tide rolling; and if they don't keep a foot in the door we could lose Nexus.

Nexus has been a home and haven for modders as long as I can remember. They have helped us all without advertisement; and bandwidth for this place has to be hugely expensive.

Their premium membership here is the most reasonable on the web; I was more than glad to help this site in any way I could.

I would never consider asking money for a mod I made, but if I did, would much rather the cut go to Nexus than Valve.

Just my two cents.

** Edit:

AnonOwnsYou said it better than I could.

phantompally76 wrote: I don't view it so much as hypocrisy, but rather that while you were decrying Valve's actions publicly with one hand, you had come to an understanding with them in the other to receive revenue from them, and failed to disclose that information to your own already apprehensive and outraged community of revenue generators.

Actually, having read that sentence back a few times to myself....that bloody well IS hypocrisy.

At any rate, it's your website, and it's not my place to tell you or anyone else how to conduct your affairs.

All I know is that since this bombshell dropped yesterday, I haven't downloaded any mods or logged into Skyrim at all, and I have no inclination to do so at the moment. I hope that wears off, but right now I feel like abandoning the game and the mods entirely.

I liked modding a lot better when it was a hobby rather than a business.

Dark0ne wrote:

The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

Obviously I had no idea what sort of money I'd be getting from it. If it was a small amount, it could go towards a server kitty. If it was a large amount, I dreamed of hiring on more programmers for NMM. Irrespective, every little helps, and I didn't want to turn down what was, and still is, a kind gesture both from Valve and the mod authors who choose the Nexus as a service provider just because some people misguidedly might think I was being two faced.

I went in to it from the get go that this was a donation to supporting the Nexus, and this in no way endebted me to supporting or advocating the use of Steam Workshop. I've been offered a hell of a lot more money over the years than what this could even potentially bring in if it took off massively, and I haven't done it yet. So for people to doubt my intentions now. Meh. Don't know me at all. Or at least, people don't read the many blog posts I've written about this very topic in the past.

Arthmoor wrote: @Dark0ne:

I'd have set Nexus as a service provider for the one mod I have in the pay system now but I had a question about it that Valve didn't get around to answering until after the listing was approved. Authors can't change the payment distributions AT ALL once the listing is approved for sale.

hangman04 wrote: Dark0ne, don't worry this is just the heat of moment. After 1-2 months everyone will be complaint. Worse things have happened in the gaming industry ( pay to win in mmorpgs, even the dlc system) and people were lashing and swore they would never do this or that, and by the rage one would say that the companies will go bankrupt etc etc. But the truth is that almost every "unethical" change became eventually the norm, and this (mod authors getting payed) is by far the fairest addition. It's just a matter of time. You will probably loose the people who started swearing on the forum and you had to ban them :)).

Dark0ne wrote: Thanks Arthmoor, and no worries.

I saw that you weren't best pleased that I didn't make the service provider information public from the get-go on your forums. I can see your point, and I can understand the knee-jerk negative reaction coming from the way Chesko pointed at me in his Reddit thread. Obviously, if I'd been more open about it from the start then I could have managed the community response more easily.

But in the same vein, this just seemed a no brainer to me. It was sold to me on the premise of letting mod authors who are fans of the Nexus and want to support the Nexus giving a little back to the Nexus through this system, and it most definitely wasn't offered as a token of "hey, we'll offer you this if you're nice to us!". Obviously people don't know that, but the service provider blurb on the sites is pretty clear, and many people have mistaken my open talking of poor implementation of Steam's paywall system as me some how championing free modding EVERYWHERE, which most certainly hasn't been my intention. I just begrudge how badly it's been handled, rather than the over-arcing concept.

When Chesko made the Reddit thread it was already late here in the UK, and I've taken the decision to leave it a night. If it blows up or seems to be a big issue, I'll clarify the Service Provider stuff more. If it doesn't, I'll leave it be.

zerolovesyuki wrote: It seems Dark0ne has already made up his mind, but I personally would like a move away from this. Saying you want modding to remain open and free is all well and good, but accepting funding from Steam's paywall service IS a direct conflict of interest.

If you can justify it to yourself that's fine, but i'm extremely dissapointed that you are supporting this, no matter how indirectly.

anonownsyou wrote: You should read all the posts where it's been clearly pointed out that the only thing Dark0ne wants to remain open and free is the Nexus; there's no conflict of interest because Dark0ne openly admits to being behind modders getting something out of it, so long as the Nexus itself remains free and open.

You folks keep putting words in his mouth with this insistence that he's some sort of champion for free mods all the time everywhere, but that's simply not the case, and that's the same as stating that Dark0ne thinks modders don't deserve to be paid for their time and effort. The opposite has been repeatedly (seriously, repeatedly, there is an extensive record of this) and openly stated for some time.

Besides, there's a little poetic justice in Valve paying just a little bit towards keeping the Nexus free.

Reaper0021 wrote: Robin...not that you'll see this...but take it from someone that's been around for 44 ROUGH years: RELAX!!! You've done so damn much for all of us. You've cancelled your "Spain" trip cause of this, and those of us that can comprehend what we read know/knew what this was all about. People are just in a damn hype cause of all this new 'change' headed their way, and you know how most people feel about any change at all. I'm with you 100% and Chesko....he is/was just lashing out and you were the recipient of that. Scapegoat maybe? Not sure. I support YOU Robin.

WightMage wrote: Long live the Dark 0ne, he who protects the most holy Nexus, birth-mother of all that has been imagined and yet to be imagined! Long live the Robin, arch priest of the Dark 0ne, who doth maintain the Nexus with his most holy blood, sweat, and occasional cup of coffee!

Glory to the Dark 0ne, who even drowned in temptation sticks to his holy guns... of freedom for all to choose what they want out of their modding experience, whether it be paid, OR free!

So sayeth the Book of Scott.

Pops53 wrote: Silver is Silver: you knew beforehand and you participated instead of telling Valve to push off... so you'll get what you've earned.

Pops

Arthmoor wrote: No worries Dark0ne.

A lot of information has been flying around everywhere and at the time I posted on my own forums I was still under the impression that you were dead set against the idea of modders making money. So apologies if I came off a bit harsh.

This thing with Chesko bugs me a lot more though. Moreso because he hasn't given everyone all the details as to what he should have expected upon pulling those mods down. We all knew ahead of time that those would be the terms. The mods would remain in the system for those who paid already. Only the author, Valve, and Bethesda can see them at that point. It was in the agreement, it's on the public FAQ, and we've known for 5-6 weeks now.

@ Arthmoor

You lost some control in exchange for %25. Precisely what many of the less-heated opponents are saying. We haven't even begun to discover the ramifications of this yet. Edited April 25, 2015 by digitaltrucker