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Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

Dark0ne

By Dark0ne
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Deleted3507349User

Deleted3507349User

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In response to post #24623019.


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I can see definite legal problems if someone wanted to have timed exclusive behind the paywall and then release it here for free. Bethesda would be justified in filing a DMCA takedown notice at that point. Once a mod is behind that paywall it and any later versions are there forever.
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AKcelsior Collaborator

AKcelsior

Posted
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In response to post #24623019. #24623139 is also a reply to the same post.


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This is that grey area I've been mentioning. Technically it is no longer an individual property once it's been uploaded to the workshop. It will remain there forever, assuming at least 1 person buys it before its removed. So if you yank your mod from the workshop and then post it here, it's technically a type of retail fraud. That could get real nasty.

There's a reason "Wet and Cold" is only version 1.4 here, while the steam version is 2.0. At first it seems normal that the author would want to exclusively release a new version on steam to generate some income, but is it really that simple? He no doubt had to sign an agreement to not upload that property elsewhere. 1.4 is fine, but if he uploads 2.0 a legal hammer could be brought down on his head. Edited by akkalat85
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WightMage Collaborator

WightMage

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In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620854, #24620909, #24621039, #24621124, #24621969, #24622244, #24622359, #24622569, #24622584, #24622724 are all replies on the same post.


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Though to be fair, don't the terms of using CK state that whatever we create belongs to Bethesda by default? I was a bit confused (but, sadly, not surprised by) Chesko's reaction when Valve Legal refused to let him take Arissa 2.0 off the workshop, though he claimed it was 100% his.

My impression was that ultimately, he and Griefmyst only really owned the voice files- everything else was made using programs that they signed EULA's for.

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sparkleman Apprentice

sparkleman

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In response to post #24622409. #24622729, #24622874 are all replies on the same post.


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Which is exactly my point they're hard work that they did for free paid off by them getting recognized and into a solid job within the games industry instead of them getting pittance while they're be abused by Valve and Bethesda.
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Joeblivion Newbie

Joeblivion

Posted
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In response to post #24615349. #24615514, #24615539, #24615594, #24615744, #24615844, #24616559, #24616664, #24616684, #24616839, #24616949, #24617094, #24617659, #24617939, #24617944, #24618744 are all replies on the same post.


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@Axeface I have not been on the steam forums to witness, for myself, the extent of the response of the community to the actions of Valve/Beth and while I do not endorse over the top, negative responses, (ie. death threats, etc.) I can say that we cannot discredit the community's response because of the negative feedback.

We are voicing our displeasure at this move by Valve and Beth. The majority of the community supports the FREE distribution of modded content and those modders who decide that they would like to take the 'Valve' approach and try to monetize that content are telling the community of users that they value the dollar over the enjoyment of expressing creativity, dedication and skillful prowess in regards to their modded content.

Your position confuses me because in your first post, you support Valve's decision, claiming it will promote higher quality mods (which is debatable).

Yet later in your responses you go on to claim that corporations are 'evil' and ALWAYS try to suck everyone dry.

Despite this, you still support an 'evil' corporation, that is setting up an easy cash grab, that undermines the creativity of modders, short changes them for their efforts, moves us one step closer to eliminating free modding altogether, perpetuates pirating (now for mods, of all things) and is trying to remove our free exchange of content.

Monetizing modded content will not create better content. People will find ways to maximize the amount of money they make, while putting in the least amount of effort.
Don't believe me? Just follow what Beth and Valve are doing.

Beth makes 37.5% of all profits for every download, while only having to pay for a game that they developed 4 years ago and no longer support.

Valve makes 37.5% of all profits for every download, while only having to upkeep the workshop and overseeing every transaction/download.

The people actually doing any work get paid only 25% of profits made per download.

This is what happens when you put the importance of the dollar bill above the importance of creativity, community sharing, desire for prestige and passion for supporting something you love.
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WightMage Collaborator

WightMage

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In response to post #24623019. #24623139, #24623229 are all replies on the same post.


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...so we'll never get to see Arissa 2.0 I guess. :/
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AKcelsior Collaborator

AKcelsior

Posted
Posted (edited)
In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620854, #24620909, #24621039, #24621124, #24621969, #24622244, #24622359, #24622569, #24622584, #24622724, #24623239 are all replies on the same post.


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Yes that's most likely correct. In the past great mods like "Weapon Mod Kits" have been an inspiration for future game systems Bethesda creates. A user most likely cannot try to engage in a legal dispute due to this very reason.

I remember when "Build Your Own Home" was released. A couple months later Bethesda released "Hearthfire". It could be odd timing, but it's no secret Bethesda has used the modding community in the past for bright ideas to capitalize on. In the case of Antistar's WMK mod, they openly thanked him for the idea and Antistar viewed is as a recognition of his accolades and good publicity in the professional world.

I would personally be flattered as well. It depends on how you look at it. Of course, Bethesda doesn't do a carbon copy. They rewrite the entire system in house, but the ideas come from this site. It's pretty much impossible to lay claim to an idea though so whether Bethesda owns our esps or not I doubt it matters in the long run. Edited by akkalat85
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cTuck88 Newbie

cTuck88

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In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620854, #24620909, #24621039, #24621124, #24621969, #24622244, #24622359, #24622569, #24622584, #24622724, #24623239, #24623394, #24623554 are all replies on the same post.


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I applaud you in doing this. Not because I feel the users have a right to free mods, nor because I feel modders are getting greedy and jumping at Valve/Bethesda's doggy treat offer of 25%, but because you had a moment of clarity in this virtual s#*!-storm (pardon my French.)

It is too early to be picking one side or the other in this debate. People had already chosen sides before this became official, and now Valve has simply opened the gates and released the hounds, content to watch us tear each other apart while laughing and counting their new shiny coins. Best thing to do is to take a step back for a minute and get a better view of the big picture. Many great concerns have been brought up such as collabs, mod requirements, and piracy. What will Valve do to correct these things? Will they even give a damn? Do you really want to be joining their side without knowing that whether or not they will even fight for you or back you up? And on the "Freeside", many say they will start donating now just to keep you off the SW. Will they? Do you trust them anymore than you do Valve? Will they help out with identifying and reporting piracy of your work should someone else try to sell it on the SW?

Far too soon to join either Valvthesda or Freeside. Talk with people, debate the finer points and concerns, and then after some time (when the wolves calm down a bit) make an informed decision that you feel is right.

And that goes for everyone. Modders can chose to use a paywall, donation, or free distribution of their mods. Users can chose to pay, donate, or use freely given mods. No one has the right to say whether that person made the right choice or not. It is their choice alone. All I ask is that you make one after being well informed.

TL; DR I applaud phenderix for taking a step back to look at things and will ultimately respect any decision that mod makers/users decide to make. All I suggest is that you make it an informed one. Edited by cTuck88
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Joeblivion Newbie

Joeblivion

Posted
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In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620854, #24620909, #24621039, #24621124, #24621969, #24622244, #24622359, #24622569, #24622584, #24622724, #24623239, #24623394, #24623524 are all replies on the same post.


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I think you are making a good choice in changing your mind to making all your mods Nexus exclusive.

When I initially read your first post, I immediately decided that if I saw a mod with your name on it I would skip it and move on out of principle.

I am very pleased that you changed your mind though. You have restored a little bit of my hope for the future of the modding community of Skyrim in general.

I hope that you continue to get endorsements and praise despite what Valve and Beth are doing.

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phenderix Community Regular

phenderix

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In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620854, #24620909, #24621039, #24621124, #24621969, #24622244, #24622359, #24622569, #24622584, #24622724, #24623239, #24623394, #24623524, #24623554 are all replies on the same post.


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Thank you all for the comments.
I heavily considered whether or not to do this all day.


The respectful comments and messages I have received from users and modders on this site made me change my mind.

I hope the community can unite and figure out a solution to all of this instead of just cursing at one another and ripping people that make a decision to monetize their mods. I am sure there is some way that everyone can benefit.
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