Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[Psijonica]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Psijonica

[greggorypeccary]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24684729.

Harbringe wrote:

Thank you Harbringe, that is one of the most interesting and insightful posts I have read the past two days.

I did know a little about the game history but this part of the whole story of Bethesda and its community is an important story to tell, for all the "spoilt brats" out there and... well Bethesda themselves really.

Hmmm.. the whole things makes me feel sad. Hope things can be made to work better without sacraficing what people like you have brought to my life and many others. My hat off to you and all great modding gurus out there. I really hope you get the credit you deserve, both financially and otherwise.

Thank you. Edited April 26, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[AKcelsior]

In response to post #24677494. #24677549, #24677769, #24677774, #24680864, #24681269, #24682129, #24683249, #24684669, #24685649 are all replies on the same post.

digitaltrucker wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: Now you are just scaremongering, take the tinfoil hat off for the love of God.

sunshinenbrick wrote: If we just sit by and don't do anything I fear he will be right. Google: Nouriel Roubini

digitaltrucker wrote: Not at all, what I stated is exactly what has happened in PC gaming and software as a whole in the past decade.

Mods will be absolutely no different than any other software.

The only reason this hasn't happened in modding before now is that until the last few years modding was largely under the radar.

The only way my above scenario will not play out is if the game manufacturers themselves choose not to make it happen. The games are ultimately their product.

Psijonica wrote: Funny video but Nexus is not the good guy in this situation. But if you want to say that they Knights represent the community in general I am ok with that. At least I can still laugh ;D

I'm so happy to see this because these kids today don't understand the real world and how the corporations are just waiting to pounce. Once they see that there is money in mods the sharks will come. The consequences and ramifications of this are going to ripple and it will take a few years but eveybody in the gaming business is watching what happens.

If we don't fight to stop this, if we don't organize then the, the corporations will steal this all. Once they do that, there will be nothing left.

Forget about a free CK in FO4 or the next Elder Scrolls game. You'll have to buy it or they licence it out for a large amount of money.

It is not just free mods that are at risk... it is free modding.

Dark0ne stands to make hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not close to a million each year) if Pay-for-Mods becomes big as it looks like it will. The new bread of modders are just rolling over and accepting this. SOPA will be next once the Corporations see how easy this take over was. 3-5 years and SOPA will be law. That is my prediction now.

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265

DaVincix wrote: "The games are ultimately their product."

Exactly. I bet many gamers still believe they own a game.
What they pay for is the right to use a software-copy.

I a developer-company or the overall owner/decider of a game-product is going to disable any modding-option for a respective game, they can, legally.

The "only" issue for them is the reaction of the by them known modding-scene/game-community, which are part of their customers.

This said, i'm, rather was, a highly active public modder for many years (another game genre), and i'm pro free modding and free distribution, of course. Nonetheless, realities cannot be ignored.

DaVincix wrote: " I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265 "

@ Psijonica

... thanks for this, and the link to Emma's point on Beth's forum.


Couldn't stress more my support for Emma's expressed opinion: Money ( in this relation and in the last consquence: greed ) is the Poison for the modding-scene and its community. It'll destroy the spirit of modding and sharing.

But, let's face it (again): We are all dependent on the decisions of the gaming-industry. What's the gaming-industry? Real people ... humans, which decide about the game-business-concepts.

Psijonica wrote: @ DaVincix

I agree with you completely. Not only do they think they own the game but some time during the height of the Oblivion craze moddders started believing that they owned their mods. As Emma said herself and like I have been saying for years on my blogs and in forums, modders don't own anything. This generation of Skyrim modders are just rude and spoiled children and when they grow and realize what has really happened here then they will all cry foul but it will be too late. I think it is already too late. And so does Emma.

I have know Emma for many years. I have shared laughs and tears through our private conversations. I have been a member of her forum since she released Vilja for Oblivion. Obviously she is very disturbed with what is going on with this new generation of Skyrim modders. Disgusted is really a more accurate word. Which is why she is so upset to see what has happened.

I know because Emma has told me that she has been reduced to tears by many of the rude comments about her mod and her voice. These children are really mean. And that is why I am ready to give up. Why should I care any more... I don't think I do.

It is an end of an era and like Emma I think I am just going to go back to her forum and hide there and watch the chaos destroy what I was a part of, a great community that respected each other. That is all gone now... it will never be the same again.

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

He's made his own opinions clear SEVERAL times, you continue to CHOOSE NOT TO HEAR HIM.
If you don't trust Dark0ne, then what are you doing on his website downloading FREE MODS, using a FREE ACCOUNT?

Why not go to a Mod Website that you "Trust" and download mods from there, instead of staying here on a website you don't trust, with a CEO you don't trust?

What a hypocrite you look like, you don't trust Dark0ne, but you freely use his site with a FREE ACCOUNT, and download FREE MODS.

Hypocrite much?

sunshinenbrick wrote: I've seen the problems that Dark0ne and the team has faced over the past few years... Valvesda seem to have no idea what they are letting themselves in for.

It's about respect and there seems to be less and less of that around these days.

@bigdeano89: He's not fear mongering at all. People on the workshop forums have already posted torrent links for the paid bundle. So yes it's really happening right now. Being a programmer myself, I fear for the future of this community with regards to piracy of paid mods.

Honestly, what in the world would make you think this wouldn't happen? You really thought people weren't going to pirate paid mods? Is this your first time on the internet?

This effects everyone and sticking your fingers in your ears and calling people fear mongers is only adding fuel to an already raging inferno. Edited April 26, 2015 by akkalat85

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

@Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this. Edited April 26, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[Psijonica]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

@sunshinenbrick

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

[thefinn]

In response to post #24645544. #24646089, #24649659, #24649709, #24651129, #24651814, #24653749, #24654389, #24662464, #24667379, #24667414, #24667519, #24667559 are all replies on the same post.

jmeks23 wrote:

PharCry wrote: "HOWEVER, I don't think that means compensation is deserved. Not to say you shouldn't be able to donate to these creators and what not, but I just don't feel like I should be forced to pay for any type of mod."

So they can't ask for money, for something they created, put their own hard work into? They absolutely must allow everyone to have it for free if they have shared it with the community? For something they've poured tens, hundreds or more hours into? Testing with other users, gathering feedback and data, troubleshooting, etc? All the while doing their day job and or whatever else they may have to contend with in regards to life?

"The thing about mods is you can have up to 200+ running at a time, and most people here probably play with somewhere between 25-100. Imagine even paying $.99 for 100 mods? And most mods I'm seeing on the workshop are charging more than $.99. Why would I ever do that?"

They're not making it a requirement to charge money for mods! Too many people are used to the idea of just having mods for free. This introduces a way that content creators can actually make a little money for what they are doing (hell maybe consider downloading Blender and NifSkope and the Creation Kit, learning how they work and making your own mods? WOW WHAT A CONCEPT). Why is this a bad thing?

I'm not saying it again after this: IMO Valve needs to reconsider how much they are taking as a cut from mod makers, but the mod makers do deserve some compensation IF THEY DEEM IT NECESSARY. We can pay for it if we like it (there is a 24 hour policy, probably should be 48 but again, something that needs dealt with on Valve's end, and something WE as a community can respond to). Stop crying about this, give input as it evolves, and stop acting like this only benefits Valve and Nexus!

locomotive1236 wrote: Our of curiosity, do some of the tools used to make mods, such as blender, nifskope, photoshop, have a disclaimer saying that not to be used for commercial products? If you do you have to buy a licensed one for a prolonged period? I know most don't really care if you use it for personal stuff, but once it's out in the market they have rights to the products too?

sunshinenbrick wrote: Very important point made above!

Saerileth wrote: It's interesting how most of these detailed explanations of "what modding is all about" come from people who have not uploaded a single mod of their own. How can you judge the "right" reasons to mod, and who should (or shouldn't) be modding in the first place? I'm a mod author myself, and I still don't presume to know the motivations of all the others. I can only speak for myself.

locomotive1236 wrote: @Saerileth, I speak for no other as well. I do not have the skill or want to mod SKyrim because there's already so many mods out there available that do the same thing that I desired. And you're fairly limiting modding to only Skyrim and not looking at the big picture. There are other games with mods as well and this is one of those platform that supports modding community. I've made some popular and some not so-popular mods/addons in the past for some games I don't care to mention. I have also create stuff for myself that share to my friends.

I feel that your attack on those that haven't put up a mod and have no say is unwarranted. Most that do not have a mod participated in one way or another with the creation or perfection of some mods, whether by inputs or feedbacks. To say they have no right to to say what modding is about for themselves is a little shortsighted, no?

If I have mistaken your point then I apologize, but modding community is not just about the authors who has hosted at least 1 mod. This is not to be taken as the authors don't deserve any praise, as they should definitely be. All I'm saying is the "beta testing" helps the modding community more than anything.

Tanniss wrote: actually you are correct in most instances they have two versions of a product one for personal use (which is usually free) to wit you arent allowed to use those for commercial gain and then they have the professional produce (which you have to buy to use ) which even then still only has a limited commercial availability usage of
Not to mention the use of copyrighted material which is in alot of mods that is a no no and will end up getting dmac'd out the ass

My issue with this is simple dark one calls it cutting his nose off to spite his face which if he was all for paid modding would make sense but your stand point is such that you fear that free modding and the COMMUNITIES that support such endeavors will go the way of the do do. That you allow yourself to be construed as a supporter of said paid practices when whether you choose to admit to yourself or not you are a champion for freed modding why would you send such a mixed signal because whether you believe it or not you are by no means being neutral being neutral means you have no opinion one way or the other...
when in fact you are taking money from valve's cut (which if you were to send to the top modders on here as a donation to help keep them modding for free would be giving only one clear signal) while also saying you fear that this will cause free modding to go away seems to be giving out confused and mixed signals...
I do not have any doubts that you take valves money thinking to do good with it but we all know valve is only doing this to take your legs and your integrity from you when they decide to come out with harsher rules for the modders to upload to them if you make waves they will just use the "You were not opposed to this course of action before as you gladly accepted our money stance" i love the nexus and in many many forums today i have posted that the alternative to this valve fiasco is to come here that being said being neutral means not doing anything to promote a sense of side taking and sorry taking money from valve while stating that you are afraid the way this will go could make our home for everything modding go away is taking both sides

Saerileth wrote: I did not attack anyone! I merely made an observation. You cannot deny that the most resounding and outspoken response to this topic comes from the users, and not the mod authors of this community. And I'm having a hard time believing that not at least part of the outrage come right down to "I don't want to have to pay for all these lovely mods that I'm used to have for free". And I can totally understand that sentiment! Knowing that some of my favourite mods will no longer be freely available to me makes me sad, because lets face it no one enjoys giving away money. I'm just getting very tired of seeing people talk up this grand cause of how they don't support paid mods out of principle, when it is usually simply that they do not want to pay for them. Call things by what they are.

No one has the right to define what "modding is all about", that is something each member of the community has to decide for him/herself (much as no one can claim to objectively define what is "art" and what is not, to give you a better example of what I mean). You can't set down "right" or "wrong" reasons for sharing mods, that would be looking a gift horse into the mouth. Every author has their own reasons for doing what they do. There are some things that the community as a whole has a say in - this is not one of them.

locomotive1236 wrote: "You cannot deny that the most resounding and outspoken response to this topic comes from the users, and not the mod authors of this community."

I partially agree with this, but it's also because the users outnumbered mod authors by a hefty margin. By simple statistics you will see more posts from users than actual authors. However, if you have scanned around the forums, you will note that some mod authors do voice in their opinions and their stances. Another thing, since emotions are high right now, it is much wiser for many authors to lay low and do not voice their opinions because the mob is doing witch hunt. Unfortunately, they'll look for any excuses to chastise people on the issue.

"I'm just getting very tired of seeing people talk up this grand cause of how they don't support paid mods out of principle, when it is usually simply that they do not want to pay for them. Call things by what they are."

I completely agree with this. Principle is easily swayed and is used to justify a lot of things, bad or good.

Anyways, does anyone have an answer to my previous question about the free programs used to make the mods? I feel that even something simple as photoshop would be able to pull rights on many of these texture mods. Not to sure about the other freewares.

UberSmaug wrote: "You have officially ruined any hopes of you being a reputable Modder... Congratulations you money grabbing c*nt."

Statements like this Is why authors are staying quiet and for good reason. I've even seen stuff about trying to find authors home address in some attempt to threaten bodily harm if you try to sell your mods. I'm gonna play devils advocate here and hopefully put some of the positive aspects of this into perspective.

Saerileth was right in pointing out that he found it odd that people who have contributed nothing tangible to the community are crying betrayal. I too am at a loss on how someone can talk about the sprit of modding when they've never actually done any modding. Modding is not downloading a file. Why do you feel you are entitled some else's work? That's not a community, that's communism.

People have been eating a free lunch and your pissed that the menu may be changing, get real. I've never read the amount of self-entitle BS I've seen in the past few days. "Modders don't deserve to ask for compensation"... Why the hell not? I work really long and hard on my mods, weeks and months and years of my life. Bethesda and Valve don't deserve a cut... Why not? They made the game and provided us the toolkit to begin with. Valve gives us a place to share them. I would have no problem giving Nexus a cut too had they such a service . Would I like a bigger cut. Of course I do something closer to 50% would be great then you wouldn't have to overprice your mod to actually see some real money. Don't forget the G men are gonna want their cut too. But what about the Bethesda employees. What do you think the split is like there. That would be interesting to see the numbers but I guarantee Bethesda is getting the bigger piece, so no surprise there.

"Modding as a profession is wrong..." Why wouldn't I like to get paid to mod. Freelance game artist sounds like a pretty sweet job to me. Hell that's would be my dream job. Work from home, on my own time, no deadline hanging over my head. Only work on the projects I want to work on. I wouldn't even have to wear pants.

Its not greedy to ask fair compensation for your work. Its greedy to ask to get everything for free. And no one is forcing you to buy anything. If you don't think the mod is worth the asking price then don't buy it. If you buy a mod and turns out you don't like it you can get a refund. Hell you can't even sell anything until you get enough endorsements from the community. The only people trying to force anything are the people petitioning to have the paid mods shut down.

That said I don't think free mods should or will go away. Not every mod is worth being paid for. You have no business trying to sell a retexture or port from other games. In fact if your mod is not stand alone, meaning if it requires another mod to work I think it is in poor taste to try and sell it unless you've worked out a deal with the other author. Some of these mods are popular and there will always be a demand for them but should not be sold for profit. Modders need a place to learn and grow and it sounds like the nexus will remain that place. However I think there is room to improve the community by establishing a place where premium mods can be sold. Where fair trade can be established.

It is way too easy for a good mod to get drowned in a sea of crap before it has a chance to be seen. If your mod doesn't make the hot list in the first week your pretty much dead in the water. Very few people make the effort to sift through the garbage to find that lost gem and its a damn shame. Creating a new marketplace where modders that hold themselves to a higher standard of quality can be given their fair shot and be compensated for there hard work is perfectly justified in my opinion. People act like it is a crime to sell mods, I what I find criminal is what counts as a mod these days.

This is not the death of modding. Its a chance to raise the bar. If you are selling a mod it should be finished product with a fair price. Not some half ass junk you whipped up in ten minutes, like idk say a green sword retexture with a dollar sign on it for $99.99. That is something to be outraged about. If we do this right It can be a good thing for everyone. Devs get money, that make them happy, and maybe hopefully even more Devs will give us modding resources and a bigger cut to the modder down the road. Modders get money, that makes them happy. Maybe even enough to quit your day job and be a full time modder, which means more/better mods for you. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.

Please do not be so short sighted on this. No it wont be perfect just yet and some tweaks to the model will inevitably happen. Just don't hate on this and ruin it before we see where it can go. If it fail it fails and things will go back to 100% free. Because while I can't speak for others. Yes I do it because I love to do it, and If I can make money at the same time it makes me want to do it even more. I don't think that makes me a bad person.

SurrealCruelty wrote: @locomotive
If you are using the educational versions of any Adobe product the EULA says you cannot use it for commercial purposes, that would pretty much include paid mods. That also applies to the educational version of 3DSMax, and for that matter with FaceGen and Poser. The professional versions of those programs are explicitly for commercial use.

As for Blender and Nifskope, I think they made their position on the whole thing clear by allowing themselves to be considered "contributors" by Valve. SKSE has pretty much stated on their website that you can use SKSE in mods to make money, but the resource itself will remain free.

I couldn't tell you if GIMP prohibits commercial use or not, but it's probably on their homepage and in any EULA they make you agree to when you download and install.

Saerileth wrote: Adobe can't pull any rights to anything you've made as long as you own a legal license of Photoshop. Where would digital artists be otherwise? This obviously does not extend to pirated versions, but seriously, if you try to sell mods that were made with stolen tools you deserve to be DMCA'd off the face of the planet. This is the same for all professionally available software such as ZBrush, 3DSMax or Maya. I don't know how things are with the free student versions of the last two, you'd have to read their license agreement.

A common misconception about Blender's open source license is that it can only be used for non-commercial products. This is not the case, you retain 100% ownership of anything you create with the software. The same goes for other freeware such as The Gimp.

I can't speak for modding tools such as NifSkope or Tes5Edit. You'd have to carefully read their license agreement and/or talk to the respective developers.

@Edit: SurrealCruelty beat me to it. Good point about the student versions.

anonownsyou wrote: The people who don't do the work have absolutely no right to criticize the people who DO, be it their motivations, their reservations, their orientations, animal, vegetable, or mineral.

Exactly.

"What modding is supposed to be about" but has never contributed a single mod.

So be quiet.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24677494. #24677549, #24677769, #24677774, #24680864, #24681269, #24682129, #24683249, #24684669, #24685184 are all replies on the same post.

digitaltrucker wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: Now you are just scaremongering, take the tinfoil hat off for the love of God.

sunshinenbrick wrote: If we just sit by and don't do anything I fear he will be right. Google: Nouriel Roubini

digitaltrucker wrote: Not at all, what I stated is exactly what has happened in PC gaming and software as a whole in the past decade.

Mods will be absolutely no different than any other software.

The only reason this hasn't happened in modding before now is that until the last few years modding was largely under the radar.

The only way my above scenario will not play out is if the game manufacturers themselves choose not to make it happen. The games are ultimately their product.

Psijonica wrote: Funny video but Nexus is not the good guy in this situation. But if you want to say that they Knights represent the community in general I am ok with that. At least I can still laugh ;D

I'm so happy to see this because these kids today don't understand the real world and how the corporations are just waiting to pounce. Once they see that there is money in mods the sharks will come. The consequences and ramifications of this are going to ripple and it will take a few years but eveybody in the gaming business is watching what happens.

If we don't fight to stop this, if we don't organize then the, the corporations will steal this all. Once they do that, there will be nothing left.

Forget about a free CK in FO4 or the next Elder Scrolls game. You'll have to buy it or they licence it out for a large amount of money.

It is not just free mods that are at risk... it is free modding.

Dark0ne stands to make hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not close to a million each year) if Pay-for-Mods becomes big as it looks like it will. The new bread of modders are just rolling over and accepting this. SOPA will be next once the Corporations see how easy this take over was. 3-5 years and SOPA will be law. That is my prediction now.

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265

DaVincix wrote: "The games are ultimately their product."

Exactly. I bet many gamers still believe they own a game.
What they pay for is the right to use a software-copy.

I a developer-company or the overall owner/decider of a game-product is going to disable any modding-option for a respective game, they can, legally.

The "only" issue for them is the reaction of the by them known modding-scene/game-community, which are part of their customers.

This said, i'm, rather was, a highly active public modder for many years (another game genre), and i'm pro free modding and free distribution, of course. Nonetheless, realities cannot be ignored.

DaVincix wrote: " I have to say that everyone should read the LEGENDARY MODDER "Emma's" post on Bethesda forum or you can read it on her website here;

http://emmates.proboards.com/thread/1705/regards-charging-mods?page=1#scrollTo=42265 "

@ Psijonica

... thanks for this, and the link to Emma's point on Beth's forum.


Couldn't stress more my support for Emma's expressed opinion: Money ( in this relation and in the last consquence: greed ) is the Poison for the modding-scene and its community. It'll destroy the spirit of modding and sharing.

But, let's face it (again): We are all dependent on the decisions of the gaming-industry. What's the gaming-industry? Real people ... humans, which decide about the game-business-concepts.

Psijonica wrote: @ DaVincix

I agree with you completely. Not only do they think they own the game but some time during the height of the Oblivion craze moddders started believing that they owned their mods. As Emma said herself and like I have been saying for years on my blogs and in forums, modders don't own anything. This generation of Skyrim modders are just rude and spoiled children and when they grow and realize what has really happened here then they will all cry foul but it will be too late. I think it is already too late. And so does Emma.

I have know Emma for many years. I have shared laughs and tears through our private conversations. I have been a member of her forum since she released Vilja for Oblivion. Obviously she is very disturbed with what is going on with this new generation of Skyrim modders. Disgusted is really a more accurate word. Which is why she is so upset to see what has happened.

I know because Emma has told me that she has been reduced to tears by many of the rude comments about her mod and her voice. These children are really mean. And that is why I am ready to give up. Why should I care any more... I don't think I do.

It is an end of an era and like Emma I think I am just going to go back to her forum and hide there and watch the chaos destroy what I was a part of, a great community that respected each other. That is all gone now... it will never be the same again.

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica

As far as Dark0ne is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He pretends to try and pin Gaber down on the reddit thread but he himself refuses to make his own opinions clear.

He's made his own opinions clear SEVERAL times, you continue to CHOOSE NOT TO HEAR HIM.
If you don't trust Dark0ne, then what are you doing on his website downloading FREE MODS, using a FREE ACCOUNT?

Why not go to a Mod Website that you "Trust" and download mods from there, instead of staying here on a website you don't trust, with a CEO you don't trust?

What a hypocrite you look like, you don't trust Dark0ne, but you freely use his site with a FREE ACCOUNT, and download FREE MODS.

Hypocrite much?

akkalat85 wrote: @bigdeano89: He's not fear mongering at all. People on the workshop forums have already posted torrent links for the paid bundle. So yes it's really happening right now.

Honestly, what in the world would make you think this wouldn't happen? You really thought people weren't going to pirate paid mods? How long have you been on the internet?

I've seen the problems that Dark0ne and the team has faced over the past few years... Valvesda seem to have no idea what they are letting themselves in for.

It's about respect and there seems to be less and less of that around these days.

[Rooker75]

The sky isn't falling on the modding community just because now you can officially make money doing it. Look at the app store on your phone and look at all the fantastic free (totally free, not just ad-supported) apps that are as good or better than the ones you have to pay for.

 

We make and use mods for these games because we love them. Modding was born when it wasn't entirely legal to mod games, it will survive the stage where a profit can be had from doing it.

[AlfredTheUnprepared]

Ummmmm...hey. I'm not well known-at all, or anything-but I do want to ask-has anyone asked what Valve's reaction has been to all of this? Because I did, and, well...

 

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/gabe-newell-says-valve-will-dump-paid-mods-if-they/1100-6426893/

 

 

According to him, Valve will scrap the idea if it seems to be bad for gamers.

 

Also-Ubisoft, another big, supposedly heartless company that got a ton of bad press for having Draconian-esque DRM in Assassin's creed Two removed it because of said bad press.

 

Bottom Line-Can the company do all these horrible things? Absolutely. It's their product and therefore their right.

 

...But can they do it without damaging their reputation, their sales, and their public image? Not likely.