Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24686879. #24693334, #24693649 are all replies on the same post.

rory02 wrote:

UberSmaug wrote: LOTR and Star Wars mods are examples that should never be sold for profit. I don't care if you model them from scratch if you are stealing someone's design work you should not profit. If so Lucasarts and Weta deserve a cut too no question. If you are just wakening up to what a copyright is welcome to the real world kid

rory02 wrote: you missed my point, kid. I'm not saying they should be sold for the modder's profit, I'm saying that if this new system takes off, Disney and the like may well swoop in and say, you are NOT allowed to give this mod away for free, you must charge for us and give us your cut. which sucks for everyone but them. don't take for granted that the current modding scene will be allowed to survive once the money starts flowing

It is not the man who has little, but he who desires more, that is poor. - Seneca

Oh the hole Beth is digging...

[Deleted3507349User]

To those who don't understand my position vis-a-vis donations:

 

Per the CK's EULA, modders can not sell mods anywhere except where Bethesda approves. All this discussion about donation is exactly that.

 

A good analogy may be buying a car from a dealer versus running across someone somewhere and saying "Hey, I like your car! Sell it to me for .....".

 

In either case the car is being sold. In the latter case, it doesn't matter whether or not they ever intended to sell the car. The only valid counter-argument would be if the original owner was perfectly willing to give you the car for free to begin with. In real life, seems to me that would be a shaky argument.

 

As it stands now, a modder can choose to sell their work on Steam. If the Nexus wants to take the position of supporting free modding then the donation system needs to go. There can be no question of EULA violation that way.

 

In this way; modders who insist on a free model can come here, modders who insist on a paid model can go to Steam, and modders take a middle position can utilize both (and hope that Bethesda doesn't issue a DMCA takedown on their mod here).

[greggorypeccary]

In response to post #24693799.

digitaltrucker wrote:

My guess is Bethesda will not allow free range modding and for pay modding to exist at the same time. That would be bad capitalism.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24693799. #24693879 is also a reply to the same post.

digitaltrucker wrote:

greggorypeccary wrote: My guess is Bethesda will not allow free range modding and for pay modding to exist at the same time. That would be bad capitalism.

While I totally agree that this is a very grey area... like lending a VHS to your mate back in the day. Completely illegal.

Lets take the car analogy because I see it a little differently...

Say I buy this car, I get a bit bored of it so I give a paint job and put some groovy stuff into it. I now sell that car, do I owe anything to the person who made that car?

The other thing is the rejection of companies hiding everything in a EULA. Oh and then turning a blind eye to it till it is convenient for them to use it against you. This has legal and moral questions about it as well.

[UberSmaug]

In response to post #24686879. #24693334, #24693649, #24693774, #24694354 are all replies on the same post.

rory02 wrote:

UberSmaug wrote: LOTR and Star Wars mods are examples that should never be sold for profit. I don't care if you model them from scratch if you are stealing someone's design work you should not profit. If so Lucasarts and Weta deserve a cut too no question. If you are just wakening up to what a copyright is welcome to the real world kid

rory02 wrote: you missed my point, kid. I'm not saying they should be sold for the modder's profit, I'm saying that if this new system takes off, Disney and the like may well swoop in and say, you are NOT allowed to give this mod away for free, you must charge for us and give us your cut. which sucks for everyone but them. don't take for granted that the current modding scene will be allowed to survive once the money starts flowing

sunshinenbrick wrote: It is not the man who has little, but he who desires more, that is poor. - Seneca

Oh the hole Beth is digging...

sunshinenbrick wrote: Yeah well some people do take the piss... But I have worked in schools and young people in general have a very shady concept of plagarism and copyright, usually thanks to Google actually. Wouldn't surprise me if this was by design and there are hungry sharks out there waiting to make a killing!

I just want to point out that New Line has already sent "cease and desist" letters to free mods because they were stealing designs and are well within their rights to do so. Edited April 27, 2015 by UberSmaug

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24686879. #24693334, #24693649, #24693774, #24694279 are all replies on the same post.

rory02 wrote:

UberSmaug wrote: LOTR and Star Wars mods are examples that should never be sold for profit. I don't care if you model them from scratch if you are stealing someone's design work you should not profit. If so Lucasarts and Weta deserve a cut too no question. If you are just wakening up to what a copyright is welcome to the real world kid

rory02 wrote: you missed my point, kid. I'm not saying they should be sold for the modder's profit, I'm saying that if this new system takes off, Disney and the like may well swoop in and say, you are NOT allowed to give this mod away for free, you must charge for us and give us your cut. which sucks for everyone but them. don't take for granted that the current modding scene will be allowed to survive once the money starts flowing

sunshinenbrick wrote: It is not the man who has little, but he who desires more, that is poor. - Seneca

Oh the hole Beth is digging...

UberSmaug wrote: New Line has already sent "cease and desist" letters to free mods because they were stealing designs and are well within their rights to do so.

Yeah well some people do take the piss... But I have worked in schools and young people in general have a very shady concept of plagarism and copyright, usually thanks to Google actually. Wouldn't surprise me if this was by design and there are hungry sharks out there waiting to make a killing!

[mindboggles]

 

In response to post #24693799.

 

 

 

digitaltrucker wrote:

My guess is Bethesda will not allow free range modding and for pay modding to exist at the same time. That would be bad capitalism.

 

I was thinking that but then I moved my sight a little further afield and thought, would they mind as much about free mods if they were making money from mods with the consoles? Who's to say what deals have been done and what Beth. will announce at E3, I've even got the feeling we will have a re-release of Skyrim for the lastest gen consoles and mods might just be a part of that.

[Deleted3507349User]

In response to post #24693799. #24693879, #24693944 are all replies on the same post.

digitaltrucker wrote:

greggorypeccary wrote: My guess is Bethesda will not allow free range modding and for pay modding to exist at the same time. That would be bad capitalism.

sunshinenbrick wrote: While I totally agree that this is a very grey area... like lending a VHS to your mate back in the day. Completely illegal.

Lets take the car analogy because I see it a little differently...

Say I buy this car, I get a bit bored of it so I give a paint job and put some groovy stuff into it. I now sell that car, do I owe anything to the person who made that car?

The other thing is the rejection of companies hiding everything in a EULA. Oh and then turning a blind eye to it till it is convenient for them to use it against you. This has legal and moral questions about it as well.

My guess is your guess is correct. The only exception would be if the free modding would be under their control. Mod DRM. That won't necessarily kill the Nexus as a whole, but the Skyrim section wold be gone for a start...and if you look at the numbers of mods available and how many times they've been downloaded, The Skyrim section is larger than all the other game sections combined.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24693799. #24693879, #24693944, #24694499 are all replies on the same post.

digitaltrucker wrote:

greggorypeccary wrote: My guess is Bethesda will not allow free range modding and for pay modding to exist at the same time. That would be bad capitalism.

sunshinenbrick wrote: While I totally agree that this is a very grey area... like lending a VHS to your mate back in the day. Completely illegal.

Lets take the car analogy because I see it a little differently...

Say I buy this car, I get a bit bored of it so I give a paint job and put some groovy stuff into it. I now sell that car, do I owe anything to the person who made that car?

The other thing is the rejection of companies hiding everything in a EULA. Oh and then turning a blind eye to it till it is convenient for them to use it against you. This has legal and moral questions about it as well.

digitaltrucker wrote: My guess is your guess is correct. The only exception would be if the free modding would be under their control. Mod DRM. That won't necessarily kill the Nexus as a whole, but the Skyrim section wold be gone for a start...and if you look at the numbers of mods available and how many times they've been downloaded, The Skyrim section is larger than all the other game sections combined.

Companies have always "stolen" ideas and tools... look at Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, Sony, Ikea... uh the list goes on.

The difference? They can afford legal aid and they have people in influential positions who can turn things in their favor. Incidentally enough there is no more free legal aid in the UK as of recent.

EDIT: I DO NOT promote or condone breaking the law. But the rules on the inside of the box of the game of life keep changing and they can find loop holes. Heck look at the international tax crime ring... Edited April 27, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[madpaddy]

I had a bad feeling that once money got involved it would turn out bad, this is just the tip of the iceberg and very probably the end of free fun modding as we know it.I hope chesko comes back and just puts it down to experience but i cant see this new valve paid system doing anything other than ruining what was a great thing done in a good spirit buy like minded people.I feel it will not end well for the nexus who will probably end up between a rock and a hard place while Valve holds out a virtual golden olive branch that nobody can reach.