Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[ScrollTron1c]

In response to post #24698319. #24698634 is also a reply to the same post.

Thandal wrote:

UberSmaug wrote: This is from the Steam FAQ

"Q. Can I sell a mod that contains artwork or content from another game or movie?
A. You must have the necessary rights to post any content that you post to the Steam Workshop, whether it is for sale or not. If you upload copyrighted content that you or your contributors do not have the rights to distribute, then you may forfeit all earned revenue from the item, may be liable for damages and compensation, and may be banned from future participation in this Workshop or the Steam Community in general.

Q. What if I see someone posting content I've created?
A. If someone has copied your work, please use the DMCA takedown notice."

Q. What happens if a mod I bought breaks?
A. Sometimes one mod may modify the same files as another mod, or a particular combination of mods may cause unexpected outcomes. If you find that mod has broken or is behaving unexpectedly, it is best to post politely on the Workshop item's page and let the mod author know the details of what you are seeing."

Modders will have to cover their own asses in some aspects but you should be doing that anyway.

Let's go a bit into the future, say you're a modder with plenty of useful FREE mods, and you don't want other people to profit from your work:


From now on you have to patrol the Steam Workshop every day and look for mods where you SUSPECT that they could have content stolen from you. That is, if that content is even visible on the promo images.

Then you have to buy the suspicious mods to verify if there is anything made by you inside.
In case of mods that are just scripts, sounds etc. you would have to buy practically ALL the mods to be safe.

Of course you can't get an actual refund (Steambucks are essentially toy money with which you can only buy Steam products) so you're sitting on the costs for all that.


Now if every modder was a billion dollar company, he would have his staff of lawyers and snitches and let them handle all this.
But for a private person? It is an impossible task even just to monitor the workshop 24/7.


This leaves me with 2 possible explanations:

A) The responsible project managers are incompetent outsiders, and their superiors are obliged to cancel the project and do actual reparations by fully refunding all customers and reimburse the affected mod authors

or

B) This was a firm part of the business plan, to silently take the money regardless where it comes from - speculating that the majority of modders will stop bothering with research and complaints at some point.

[GhostAgent]

In response to post #24679789. #24680359, #24680884, #24680909, #24681594, #24683019, #24683494, #24686649, #24686714, #24687229, #24689004, #24689919 are all replies on the same post.

GhostAgent wrote:

Welewa wrote: Personally, I like this idea. I would endorse it :D and I would donate to my favorite modders as a show of support and appreciation.

bigdeano89 wrote: A "would you like to donate?" popup has already came up on my download page on a few mods today, that made me think about donating, which I did! If you put the idea into peoples heads they will do it.

TKHBMVP wrote: I like this and I'm happy Dark0ne has already implemented the popup note to notice users about the donation feature here on Nexus.

mALX1 wrote:
These are some fantastic ideas. I would also like to see a donate button on that row of buttons for the Endorsements and Votes - so the person who comes back to endorse sees the donate option then; while they are endorsing and commenting the mod.

(To me, it is a better option than the one popping up on download before you even know if you like the mod or if it works).

secondmoto381 wrote: This idea is the key, it would help bring some modders who have already stated that they are moving to the Workshop for the money back to the Nexus. Not to mention that tons more people would donate on the "merit system".

SjoertJansen wrote: @mALX1

The donate button is already there, next to the vote button.

And I generally like the ideas, Good ideas. The popup is already there as well. Just activate the feature in your edit attributes.

Elta1 wrote: Wow... I think that is very cool. Trying to make a system more on promoting donation by not requiring it. I think he is on to something.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ GhostAgent

Your intellectual property has been Endorsed!

AverageZombie wrote: This is a great idea if Nexus was a primary distributor but this has potential political ramifications with Valve and Bethesda considering they now stand to make money off of this. Rolling out a system to endorse donations on this site means Nexus would be pressuring mod authors to create content here (which is good, don't get me wrong) instead of on the Steam Workshop to get their income which can be seen as attempting to strong arm Bethesda and Valve. Doing that any time soon could damage relations considering how much public opinion would be swayed.

It's like a pendulum that's been lifted by with a string that represents change. If he enrolls a new system of income it cuts the string granting immediate relief of pressure but causes the public opinion to sway heavily and without direction. So in effect, cutting the string create a much more volatile situation.

anonownsyou wrote: This is good. Yes.

mALX1 wrote:

Ha! I just saw that, Thank you!

I want to thank each and everyone one of you for taking the time to read my long post and replying. I even got a kudos from someone (thank you). This backs my theory that the community is full of kind people willing to give. I believe we outnumber the rude (and to be blunt: "jerks") that have been yelling loudly lately. The difference is that we are gentlemen and it is not in our nature to behave so badly. This is in fact, a gentleman's response to any paid model plans. There is no call to arms, no "us vs them" attitude, just simply a better way.

@AverageZombie
Thank you for voicing your concern. I would like to share with you a different view that I see happening. I think you as well as everyone else posting here sees that this has potential to grow--which is the entire concept. As I said at the top of the post: ". . .Nexus could incorporate (the ideas) and even be seen as the standard that others will follow."

You have caught on that this "raises" the Nexus (so to speak) to a higher playing field--which is the goal. There won't/can't be any political/legal ramifications due to the fact that this is still a donation based model--and a soft one at that. (No "required donations" to download.) Nobody at anytime can tell anyone that they are not allowed to donate/freely give time/money as a thank you. If the Nexus were to become a distributing platform like Steam, then we would need to use a different play. But as is, we are not a competitor and therefore, not a problem.

You also mentioned a pendulum swinging... and that is exactly what I am hoping for. If this model is implemented and succeeds, then mod authors have two choices as to which model they prefer to use (if not both!). They can submit their work to a pay model which guarantees at least a dollar for their work, or to a donation model in a community that prides itself on the idea of giving. (I am assuming they would actually make more profit from this one.)

That leaves Steam with a decision to make: 1) Continue using the model that they have which has seen some very heavy backlash, but is still off to a fairly good start, or 2) If this system proves to be more beneficial and PR friendly, to switch over to it instead (of course with some minor adjustments). If that happens, who wins? Everybody involved. :) And if Steam adopts this model, then you can bet others will follow, and the Nexus will have been the leader in influencing that. But, then again, it might not ever go that far. (But one can hope.)

Thank you again everyone for your comments.

[jchaosmaster]

Having thought about it to a point released there will be some free mod's because there some things you won't be able to sell. For example if someone wanted to post a "Legend of Zelda," type mod. Honestly one was my second download after a early follower immortal mod was a Legend of Zelda clothing set with shield and sword. Valve could never let that mod go for sale without having Nintendo raining hell down round them.

 

 

Plus seeing Chesko wonderful follower who I came to love looked like she got hit with Bethesda's ugly stick. Without CBBE No one would buy a follower if they don't look better then Lydia. Honesty out of all the follower mod there are only three I would consider paying for.

 

I worry now isn't about the big guys/teams but the little guy. I myself dream about make a mod for skyrim. However have 1000% no clue how, nor do I have any programming knowledge. What I fear is will people be less willing to help each other in the future. For example if I wanted to make my own, "Vilja in Skyrim," style follower would people like Chesko still be willing to at least show me their notes. Or would they now consider them company style secrets because they would think I was trying to cash in on their hard work.

[wolvenlord]

I just wished people would take the time to think before going completely nuts and post hate comments, I know and some others too know that value could have released this payed option a little better by doing what youtube does, if it reach a certain popularity or the modder becomes verified, then they can place a price on the mod they created, it is sad this had happen and I hope we don't lose more modders because of people who blindly send death threats/hate to great modders here and on steam workshop without seeing out both sides.

[popcorn71]

In response to post #24699154.

Chesko wrote:

So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

[tonycubed2]

In response to post #24688489. #24688904, #24690914, #24691034, #24691269, #24691774, #24698794, #24698939, #24698984 are all replies on the same post.

Fowldragon wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: The compensation will be going to (mostly) the wrong people. What Pay Mods will do is give the wrong incentive for future modders... modders who do not know and are not part of the long history of game devlopment and pushing the boundaries. If it all goes pear shaped it will bite Valvesda in the ass.

Shame is it will also hurt the "ethical" gamers out there. That being said there will always be new games and new platforms.

Fowldragon wrote: How can it go to the wrong people?

I have no clue how compensation works, but I bet it will be "GAMED"..say, a mod is compensated on the basis of FAVES and SUBs...I know of multiple mods that have major support but never amounted to much or even got finished...One I know of had 500+ faves and 1500 subscriptions. It was to become a new world in the spirit of another FALSKAAR..it was on STEAM's hot list and yet it never grew more than .123Mbytes. It was suggested that the whole thing was a scam to see how many people would endorse a project that was NEVER intended to be Started...much less finished.

Even if it worked one time, it won't work again.."Fool me once, shame on you.Fool me twice, shame on me.". OTOH, not everyone's first try is a success. I imagine some of my favorite modders made a right mess of it their first time out.

STEAM recently added BLENDER to its modding tools. It reminded me of a History lesson ... the people who made the MOST MONEY during the 1849 California gold rush...were the people selling tools and supplies.

Lateraliss wrote: Fun fact. Did you know that the Bible isn't referencing the eye of a needle of a sewing needle? There was a gate in Jerusalem called The Eye of the Needle. It was too small for a camel and its baggage to get through, so the people would have to first take all the baggage off the camel and the camel would have to basically crawl through.

It's a good metaphor, as the camel would have to remove all its possessions before passing through the gate.

sunshinenbrick wrote: By "wrong people" I mean if someone free loads off other people's hard work and then goes to make loads of money selling it to unsuspecting people.

EDIT: Just to clarify that this is not implying everyone, but the way they seem to have set it up now appears to offer very little protection from abuse. I guess they figure that bad apples will be weeded out over time... in the meantime however.

I really think modders should see the real value of what they do and demand better conditions. Hey, a modders strike??

diyeath wrote: Principal and conviction are only luxuries when you surround yourself with an environment that's counter intuitive to those concepts.

Fowldragon wrote: @lateraliss..That IS a fun fact!! I honestly thought it was literally a needle.

@sunshinenbrick...Money always changes the game...and it always attracts the people who want to get something for nothing...but the net is a collective that has innumerable sets of eyes. My Best friends Mom used to always say, " What is concocted in the Dark, will always be revealed in the light of Day.
My greatest fear, is not of the few Toads that will MUCK it up...Rather, it will be the Stroti's Tamiras, Elianoras and literally Everyone who has ever given their work away for nothing more than the courtesy of being attributed for their work... who are forced to revoke that GOOD WILL

@diyeath People have to pay bills, a man/woman of Good Character and Conscience is no exception. I won't debate this. Life is full of examples of ordinary people who dealing with extraordinary circumstances make difficult but pragmatic decisions...Not every fight.

Fowldragon wrote: srry, "Not every fight, is the "GOOD FIGHT"

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ diyeath

Man, that is deep... That's got me thinking every which way! Love it :D

That bible quote is used in the wrong context here. The Bible has no issues with a person being rich. King Solomon was filthy rich and it was a gift from God. Allowing gives to bring their pagan idols did him in, not wealth.

What the verse means is that we are not to replace God with money. We are not to make money into an idol. This applies to anything else as well. Anything can be made into an idol if we are not careful. Including poverty. Edited April 27, 2015 by tonycubed2

[Fowldragon]

In response to post #24688489. #24688904, #24690914, #24691034, #24691269, #24691774, #24698794, #24698939, #24698984, #24699959 are all replies on the same post.

Fowldragon wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: The compensation will be going to (mostly) the wrong people. What Pay Mods will do is give the wrong incentive for future modders... modders who do not know and are not part of the long history of game devlopment and pushing the boundaries. If it all goes pear shaped it will bite Valvesda in the ass.

Shame is it will also hurt the "ethical" gamers out there. That being said there will always be new games and new platforms.

Fowldragon wrote: How can it go to the wrong people?

I have no clue how compensation works, but I bet it will be "GAMED"..say, a mod is compensated on the basis of FAVES and SUBs...I know of multiple mods that have major support but never amounted to much or even got finished...One I know of had 500+ faves and 1500 subscriptions. It was to become a new world in the spirit of another FALSKAAR..it was on STEAM's hot list and yet it never grew more than .123Mbytes. It was suggested that the whole thing was a scam to see how many people would endorse a project that was NEVER intended to be Started...much less finished.

Even if it worked one time, it won't work again.."Fool me once, shame on you.Fool me twice, shame on me.". OTOH, not everyone's first try is a success. I imagine some of my favorite modders made a right mess of it their first time out.

STEAM recently added BLENDER to its modding tools. It reminded me of a History lesson ... the people who made the MOST MONEY during the 1849 California gold rush...were the people selling tools and supplies.

Lateraliss wrote: Fun fact. Did you know that the Bible isn't referencing the eye of a needle of a sewing needle? There was a gate in Jerusalem called The Eye of the Needle. It was too small for a camel and its baggage to get through, so the people would have to first take all the baggage off the camel and the camel would have to basically crawl through.

It's a good metaphor, as the camel would have to remove all its possessions before passing through the gate.

sunshinenbrick wrote: By "wrong people" I mean if someone free loads off other people's hard work and then goes to make loads of money selling it to unsuspecting people.

EDIT: Just to clarify that this is not implying everyone, but the way they seem to have set it up now appears to offer very little protection from abuse. I guess they figure that bad apples will be weeded out over time... in the meantime however.

I really think modders should see the real value of what they do and demand better conditions. Hey, a modders strike??

diyeath wrote: Principal and conviction are only luxuries when you surround yourself with an environment that's counter intuitive to those concepts.

Fowldragon wrote: @lateraliss..That IS a fun fact!! I honestly thought it was literally a needle.

@sunshinenbrick...Money always changes the game...and it always attracts the people who want to get something for nothing...but the net is a collective that has innumerable sets of eyes. My Best friends Mom used to always say, " What is concocted in the Dark, will always be revealed in the light of Day.
My greatest fear, is not of the few Toads that will MUCK it up...Rather, it will be the Stroti's Tamiras, Elianoras and literally Everyone who has ever given their work away for nothing more than the courtesy of being attributed for their work... who are forced to revoke that GOOD WILL

@diyeath People have to pay bills, a man/woman of Good Character and Conscience is no exception. I won't debate this. Life is full of examples of ordinary people who dealing with extraordinary circumstances make difficult but pragmatic decisions...Not every fight.

Fowldragon wrote: srry, "Not every fight, is the "GOOD FIGHT"

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ diyeath

Man, that is deep... That's got me thinking every which way! Love it :D

tonycubed2 wrote: That bible quote is used in the wrong context here. The Bible has no issues with a person being rich. King Solomon was filthy rich and it was a gift from God. Allowing gives to bring their pagan idols did him in, not wealth.

What the verse means is that we are not to replace God with money. We are not to make money into an idol. This applies to anything else as well. Anything can be made into an idol if we are not careful. Including poverty.

@ tonycubed2

I always knew it wasn't referring to wealth..otherwise Christians would condemn Mega Churches...Pastors like Benny Hinn, Peter Popov, Mike Murdock and Pastor DOLLAR...or the ENTIRE Roman Catholic Church Hierarchy.

[AverageZombie]

In response to post #24679789. #24680359, #24680884, #24680909, #24681594, #24683019, #24683494, #24686649, #24686714, #24687229, #24689004, #24689919, #24699554 are all replies on the same post.

GhostAgent wrote:

Welewa wrote: Personally, I like this idea. I would endorse it :D and I would donate to my favorite modders as a show of support and appreciation.

bigdeano89 wrote: A "would you like to donate?" popup has already came up on my download page on a few mods today, that made me think about donating, which I did! If you put the idea into peoples heads they will do it.

TKHBMVP wrote: I like this and I'm happy Dark0ne has already implemented the popup note to notice users about the donation feature here on Nexus.

mALX1 wrote:
These are some fantastic ideas. I would also like to see a donate button on that row of buttons for the Endorsements and Votes - so the person who comes back to endorse sees the donate option then; while they are endorsing and commenting the mod.

(To me, it is a better option than the one popping up on download before you even know if you like the mod or if it works).

secondmoto381 wrote: This idea is the key, it would help bring some modders who have already stated that they are moving to the Workshop for the money back to the Nexus. Not to mention that tons more people would donate on the "merit system".

SjoertJansen wrote: @mALX1

The donate button is already there, next to the vote button.

And I generally like the ideas, Good ideas. The popup is already there as well. Just activate the feature in your edit attributes.

Elta1 wrote: Wow... I think that is very cool. Trying to make a system more on promoting donation by not requiring it. I think he is on to something.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ GhostAgent

Your intellectual property has been Endorsed!

AverageZombie wrote: This is a great idea if Nexus was a primary distributor but this has potential political ramifications with Valve and Bethesda considering they now stand to make money off of this. Rolling out a system to endorse donations on this site means Nexus would be pressuring mod authors to create content here (which is good, don't get me wrong) instead of on the Steam Workshop to get their income which can be seen as attempting to strong arm Bethesda and Valve. Doing that any time soon could damage relations considering how much public opinion would be swayed.

It's like a pendulum that's been lifted by with a string that represents change. If he enrolls a new system of income it cuts the string granting immediate relief of pressure but causes the public opinion to sway heavily and without direction. So in effect, cutting the string create a much more volatile situation.

anonownsyou wrote: This is good. Yes.

mALX1 wrote:

Ha! I just saw that, Thank you!

GhostAgent wrote: I want to thank each and everyone one of you for taking the time to read my long post and replying. I even got a kudos from someone (thank you). This backs my theory that the community is full of kind people willing to give. I believe we outnumber the rude (and to be blunt: "jerks") that have been yelling loudly lately. The difference is that we are gentlemen and it is not in our nature to behave so badly. This is in fact, a gentleman's response to any paid model plans. There is no call to arms, no "us vs them" attitude, just simply a better way.

@AverageZombie
Thank you for voicing your concern. I would like to share with you a different view that I see happening. I think you as well as everyone else posting here sees that this has potential to grow--which is the entire concept. As I said at the top of the post: ". . .Nexus could incorporate (the ideas) and even be seen as the standard that others will follow."

You have caught on that this "raises" the Nexus (so to speak) to a higher playing field--which is the goal. There won't/can't be any political/legal ramifications due to the fact that this is still a donation based model--and a soft one at that. (No "required donations" to download.) Nobody at anytime can tell anyone that they are not allowed to donate/freely give time/money as a thank you. If the Nexus were to become a distributing platform like Steam, then we would need to use a different play. But as is, we are not a competitor and therefore, not a problem.

You also mentioned a pendulum swinging... and that is exactly what I am hoping for. If this model is implemented and succeeds, then mod authors have two choices as to which model they prefer to use (if not both!). They can submit their work to a pay model which guarantees at least a dollar for their work, or to a donation model in a community that prides itself on the idea of giving. (I am assuming they would actually make more profit from this one.)

That leaves Steam with a decision to make: 1) Continue using the model that they have which has seen some very heavy backlash, but is still off to a fairly good start, or 2) If this system proves to be more beneficial and PR friendly, to switch over to it instead (of course with some minor adjustments). If that happens, who wins? Everybody involved. :) And if Steam adopts this model, then you can bet others will follow, and the Nexus will have been the leader in influencing that. But, then again, it might not ever go that far. (But one can hope.)

Thank you again everyone for your comments.

@ GhostAgent
The problem isn't really Valve, the problem is for Bethesda. They have the rights, the legal team, and the money to throw against nexus if nexus attempts to reduce profits through donations. They don't have to even be correct, just filing the lawsuit costs everyone. Legally, both people will be required to throw money at the court system regardless of the validity of a lawsuit and they have more than enough to hit the Nexus just to spite them. That's the problem. They can and will bully smaller companies that try to mess with their babies (TES and Fallout). This was proven by their ridiculous attack against Mojang.

[jase180]

I have voiced two of the most popular and most downloaded mods on the Nexus. Hoth by Hothtrooper for Skyrim and New Vegas Bounties as Capt. Scull, the quest giver in that mod.

 

I mention that because if those mods were purchase only mods, I would not have done them. For both personal and logistical reasons. I think, as this idea goes on, that the Nexus will be on the front lines of the issue. I also think its important that we as both users of the site and modders or contributors do what we can to prevent this pay for mods model from going much further.

 

Supporting this site and the modders who make amazing content is just one way to do that. I never had one before, but I will be getting myself a premium membership to support this site that makes my gaming 1000X better. I will also try and make a point of donating to modders when the opportunity is there.

 

The Nexus and the Modders have made my gaming experiences better, I feel that if I can I should try and do what I can for them. I think we all should.

[Fowldragon]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914 is also a reply to the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.