Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[ramccoid]

In response to post #24724844. #24725529, #24725744, #24726139, #24726244 are all replies on the same post.

ramccoid wrote:

locomotive1236 wrote: __". I've never, ever seen a mod with a endorsement ratio of around 50% to unique downloads, not even the most endorsed mod ever, has no were near that proud ratio. " --Does that surprise you that people are unanimous in their decisions against paid modding?
__"then there's all the hundreds of comments, all in a few of days. I and others have spent 1000s of hours making quality mods to share, for what you are griping about, for free but it appears you would only make a big effort to support a mod which was thrown together to make your selfish point apparent. "

While I agree with your sentiments, please keep in mind that most are opposing the way valve/Bethesda handle things and their share in your work. They are, in their own ways, trying to fight against the capitalistic nature of big corporations. Not to mention, the community in many ways help the mod authors too. I know a lot of people who have spent hundreds of hours testing the game for the modders. They post bugs and suggest fixes to improve the mods. Do those efforts not worth anything in your eyes? Should they get a share of your profit too? I'm not acting entitled, but the free Beta testing and quality controls contribute to the mod's success, no?

As I have stated in many other posts, I do not blame this case on any particular person or website, but the poor designs of the concept.

__"A good community stands up and unites and fights together for the values it holds dear but all I have seen is you all fighting for your own self interests and it sickens me to see the community I love being broken apart by selfishness. "
Careful about what you say because are not modders being, as you stated, "selfish" as well for selling something that was once free? You deserve all the praise for your hardwork (via the donation system if users really appreciated it), but the current pay to play is illogical. I was under the impression that this values that we all hold dear was the free modding community for the past decades or so? Or am I delusional?

ramccoid wrote: The point being is I and others are doing this for free, that's why we are here and not at Steam but what you in your protest forget is we are who you are fighting for, the creators of your free mods.

We are human and have feelings too.

locomotive1236 wrote: I never lost that goal and I detest those that viciously attack the authors with hate and death threats. However, do you want the system that valve implemented to stay? Do you want them to obtain 75% of your cut for sitting on their hands the whole time? Do you forsee more people will download your mods and try them out if they have to pay? Perhaps it is better to get a few dollars out of your work than none, but is that the spirit of modding that you pursue? Did you initially mod to earn a few dollars or to improve the community? If you are the former, then you are also a businessman and also have your own selfish desires, no? Again, I'm not trying to insult you or anyone who believe they deserve their work to be paid, I'm just asking was that why you started modding or has money changed everything?

phantompally76 wrote: I'm not fighting for you, or any other mod author. I'm not fighting for mod users, either. And I'm certainly not fighting for any website admins or corporate CEOs.

I'm fighting for common sense and decency. THAT is what is at stake, here.

And no matter what side of the battle you're on, if you lose sight of that (or never had sight of it in the first place), then you've already lost.

Do I need to repeat myself. I and others ARE DOING THIS FOR FREE and always will. We do not have a interest in making money from you that is why we are here on the Nexus, not Steam. We do and have been doing this for our community.

[locomotive1236]

In response to post #24716989. #24717894, #24718239 are all replies on the same post.

Arendella wrote:

Kalaness wrote: That's messed up on so many levels. When I first saw this, I was like "Yays! Maybe Modders might actually get paid for their hard work." But the more this delved into the more this becomes a worse and worse idea for the community as a whole.

digitaltrucker wrote: I'll repost what I posted yesterday...let's just see what's looking correct, shall we?

***********************
Posted Yesterday, 11:19 AM

The future of modding:

Some will do it for the money, some will do it freely for the love of modding.


Coming soon:

Free mods will be like freeware apps are now, pale shadows of what paid software is. Pirating of mods will be a thing (it already is, in fact). Paid mods will be subject to DRM. At the very least some games will block mods that aren't subjected to the same DRM the game itself is.


A bit farther out:

The only free mods will be for free games. No mods for DRM games will be free, at the very least players will be forced into a subscription model.

There will be no legal legitimate middle ground, except for paid games that do not utilize DRM. Those games will be in the extreme minority.
****************************

I would say the only solution from Bethesda's and Steam's perspective to the problem linked above is DRM for mods.

I guess if you buy two items and found both not working with your setup then you're out of luck. The return policy is only 24 hours too....Is there a way to get your account back after being banned?

[locomotive1236]

In response to post #24724844. #24725529, #24725744, #24726139, #24726244, #24726564 are all replies on the same post.

ramccoid wrote:

locomotive1236 wrote: __". I've never, ever seen a mod with a endorsement ratio of around 50% to unique downloads, not even the most endorsed mod ever, has no were near that proud ratio. " --Does that surprise you that people are unanimous in their decisions against paid modding?
__"then there's all the hundreds of comments, all in a few of days. I and others have spent 1000s of hours making quality mods to share, for what you are griping about, for free but it appears you would only make a big effort to support a mod which was thrown together to make your selfish point apparent. "

While I agree with your sentiments, please keep in mind that most are opposing the way valve/Bethesda handle things and their share in your work. They are, in their own ways, trying to fight against the capitalistic nature of big corporations. Not to mention, the community in many ways help the mod authors too. I know a lot of people who have spent hundreds of hours testing the game for the modders. They post bugs and suggest fixes to improve the mods. Do those efforts not worth anything in your eyes? Should they get a share of your profit too? I'm not acting entitled, but the free Beta testing and quality controls contribute to the mod's success, no?

As I have stated in many other posts, I do not blame this case on any particular person or website, but the poor designs of the concept.

__"A good community stands up and unites and fights together for the values it holds dear but all I have seen is you all fighting for your own self interests and it sickens me to see the community I love being broken apart by selfishness. "
Careful about what you say because are not modders being, as you stated, "selfish" as well for selling something that was once free? You deserve all the praise for your hardwork (via the donation system if users really appreciated it), but the current pay to play is illogical. I was under the impression that this values that we all hold dear was the free modding community for the past decades or so? Or am I delusional?

ramccoid wrote: The point being is I and others are doing this for free, that's why we are here and not at Steam but what you in your protest forget is we are who you are fighting for, the creators of your free mods.

We are human and have feelings too.

locomotive1236 wrote: I never lost that goal and I detest those that viciously attack the authors with hate and death threats. However, do you want the system that valve implemented to stay? Do you want them to obtain 75% of your cut for sitting on their hands the whole time? Do you forsee more people will download your mods and try them out if they have to pay? Perhaps it is better to get a few dollars out of your work than none, but is that the spirit of modding that you pursue? Did you initially mod to earn a few dollars or to improve the community? If you are the former, then you are also a businessman and also have your own selfish desires, no? Again, I'm not trying to insult you or anyone who believe they deserve their work to be paid, I'm just asking was that why you started modding or has money changed everything?

phantompally76 wrote: I'm not fighting for you, or any other mod author. I'm not fighting for mod users, either. And I'm certainly not fighting for any website admins or corporate CEOs.

I'm fighting for common sense and decency. THAT is what is at stake, here.

And no matter what side of the battle you're on, if you lose sight of that (or never had sight of it in the first place), then you've already lost.

ramccoid wrote: Do I need to repeat myself. I and others ARE DOING THIS FOR FREE and always will. We do not have a interest in making money from you that is why we are here on the Nexus, not Steam. We do and have been doing this for our community.

As I said before, I am thankful for yours and others contributions to the community. Don't take my posts as an attack on you or your peers, I am only trying to see the situation from another point of view. Call it justification if you will. Some people believe in the end justify the means and they will go to extreme lengths to achieve that goal. They are also emotional since they felt betrayed by certain people (doesn't even matter if that's true or not). The mob is always fickle and easy to upset. We've seen this in history before and it will happen again. It doesn't make it right, but it may be necessary to stem the encroachment of capitalism to mods, however hopeless that is.

[ramccoid]

In response to post #24724844. #24725529, #24725744, #24726139, #24726244, #24726564, #24726974 are all replies on the same post.

ramccoid wrote:

locomotive1236 wrote: __". I've never, ever seen a mod with a endorsement ratio of around 50% to unique downloads, not even the most endorsed mod ever, has no were near that proud ratio. " --Does that surprise you that people are unanimous in their decisions against paid modding?
__"then there's all the hundreds of comments, all in a few of days. I and others have spent 1000s of hours making quality mods to share, for what you are griping about, for free but it appears you would only make a big effort to support a mod which was thrown together to make your selfish point apparent. "

While I agree with your sentiments, please keep in mind that most are opposing the way valve/Bethesda handle things and their share in your work. They are, in their own ways, trying to fight against the capitalistic nature of big corporations. Not to mention, the community in many ways help the mod authors too. I know a lot of people who have spent hundreds of hours testing the game for the modders. They post bugs and suggest fixes to improve the mods. Do those efforts not worth anything in your eyes? Should they get a share of your profit too? I'm not acting entitled, but the free Beta testing and quality controls contribute to the mod's success, no?

As I have stated in many other posts, I do not blame this case on any particular person or website, but the poor designs of the concept.

__"A good community stands up and unites and fights together for the values it holds dear but all I have seen is you all fighting for your own self interests and it sickens me to see the community I love being broken apart by selfishness. "
Careful about what you say because are not modders being, as you stated, "selfish" as well for selling something that was once free? You deserve all the praise for your hardwork (via the donation system if users really appreciated it), but the current pay to play is illogical. I was under the impression that this values that we all hold dear was the free modding community for the past decades or so? Or am I delusional?

ramccoid wrote: The point being is I and others are doing this for free, that's why we are here and not at Steam but what you in your protest forget is we are who you are fighting for, the creators of your free mods.

We are human and have feelings too.

locomotive1236 wrote: I never lost that goal and I detest those that viciously attack the authors with hate and death threats. However, do you want the system that valve implemented to stay? Do you want them to obtain 75% of your cut for sitting on their hands the whole time? Do you forsee more people will download your mods and try them out if they have to pay? Perhaps it is better to get a few dollars out of your work than none, but is that the spirit of modding that you pursue? Did you initially mod to earn a few dollars or to improve the community? If you are the former, then you are also a businessman and also have your own selfish desires, no? Again, I'm not trying to insult you or anyone who believe they deserve their work to be paid, I'm just asking was that why you started modding or has money changed everything?

phantompally76 wrote: I'm not fighting for you, or any other mod author. I'm not fighting for mod users, either. And I'm certainly not fighting for any website admins or corporate CEOs.

I'm fighting for common sense and decency. THAT is what is at stake, here.

And no matter what side of the battle you're on, if you lose sight of that (or never had sight of it in the first place), then you've already lost.

ramccoid wrote: Do I need to repeat myself. I and others ARE DOING THIS FOR FREE and always will. We do not have a interest in making money from you that is why we are here on the Nexus, not Steam. We do and have been doing this for our community.

locomotive1236 wrote: As I said before, I am thankful for yours and others contributions to the community. Don't take my posts as an attack on you or your peers, I am only trying to see the situation from another point of view. Call it justification if you will. Some people believe in the end justify the means and they will go to extreme lengths to achieve that goal. They are also emotional since they felt betrayed by certain people (doesn't even matter if that's true or not). The mob is always fickle and easy to upset. We've seen this in history before and it will happen again. It doesn't make it right, but it may be necessary to stem the encroachment of capitalism to mods, however hopeless that is.

Which I understand, so why didn't you use this enthusiasm before all this happened to show you appreciation to mod authors?
Because now it just looks like a betrayal to us who just wanted and still do, to mod to give enjoyment to you.

[locomotive1236]

In response to post #24714364.

Lateraliss wrote:

It's only the beginning. It has not been a week yet and they already received a tremendous amount of sales from <20 mods. Imagine if all those other mods from the waiting list get added in. It doesn't matter how much you protest or tell other people not to buy, there's always some one who's rich enough to pay for all the mods. That's how we have the early access system firmly in placed. THat's also how we have the day one DLC in many popular games. If they make money from rich people, why would they stop?

[Harbringe]

I've said this before that what got me interested in Bethesda games was that because of modding it made my purchase value add and if you take that away its cost add and of no use to me. I dont think Bethesda truly understands how valuable that is to their primary sales of the games they make and they could be making the biggest corporate mistake of their existence.

 

As for people claiming this has turned players and modders against one another on the Nexus , Well compared to whats going on out there (beyond the walls of the Nexus) its a sanctuary of sanity despite people having strongly held views . The stuff going on out there is just crazyville , has got to be bodies being buried somewhere by now.

 

Gopher had this to say about the following video.

 

"The sad thing is that this may be one of the more mature, well thought out and, above all, polite critiques of the new system that I have seen on the internet right now."

 

 

For those who think this is a good idea , as was pointed out by this individual Steam is notorious for having a hands off policy for the support kind of thing and you know how it can be a nightmare dealing with people who don't read the readme's and don't know about load order , much less how to clean a mod and this happens on the Nexus , where people like me who do know all about that stuff have seen others with a problem and can go " Hey I know about that problem cause it happened to me and here's how you fix it" That also is the kind of support modders get in the free mod place like the Nexus and I dont think that will be happening in Steamland . No what your likely to be getting if your mod has any measure of complexity beyond simple weapon skins or some such thing is what you see above in the video multiplied by the size that is the console market compared to the PC market. And unlike here where you can just say enuff , tell peeps to read the readme or even pull the mod , over there your contractually obligated to support it.

 

And wait a minute I just realized something , this 24 hours assessment period people are complaining its not enough time to assess a mod , but thats not the real question , the real question is what happens to the modders 25% if its refunded , is it cancelled , cause you may loose a sale but Bethvalve dosn't loose the money , its converted into Steam wallet tokens , no loss for them . And your the one providing support welcome to the 21st century version of a digital sweatshop.

 

Jesus maybe we do need a revolution.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Harbringe

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24727139.

Harbringe wrote:

What we need is a working video link.

[Aryell]

Dark0ne

I'd like to see in the near future a system in my download history that tracks the mods which I've already done a donation or not. Thanks

[locomotive1236]

In response to post #24727139. #24727234 is also a reply to the same post.

Harbringe wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: What we need is a working video link.

Your video is not showing for me. However, I have seen that video. While I agree with most of the stuff he said, I highly frowned on the comment about "what have you done for the community?" Unless I misread his statement, but that seem to target those who has not released any mods for the community. It's a little insulting to many users who help contribute ideas, identify bugs, and beta testing mods over the years. Some authors owe their fans a lot for their current success.

You probably loose all that money if it's refunded, Steam get to keep the steam money though.

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24724844. #24725529, #24725744, #24726139, #24726244, #24726564, #24726974, #24727109, #24727529, #24727669, #24727799 are all replies on the same post.

ramccoid wrote:

locomotive1236 wrote: __". I've never, ever seen a mod with a endorsement ratio of around 50% to unique downloads, not even the most endorsed mod ever, has no were near that proud ratio. " --Does that surprise you that people are unanimous in their decisions against paid modding?
__"then there's all the hundreds of comments, all in a few of days. I and others have spent 1000s of hours making quality mods to share, for what you are griping about, for free but it appears you would only make a big effort to support a mod which was thrown together to make your selfish point apparent. "

While I agree with your sentiments, please keep in mind that most are opposing the way valve/Bethesda handle things and their share in your work. They are, in their own ways, trying to fight against the capitalistic nature of big corporations. Not to mention, the community in many ways help the mod authors too. I know a lot of people who have spent hundreds of hours testing the game for the modders. They post bugs and suggest fixes to improve the mods. Do those efforts not worth anything in your eyes? Should they get a share of your profit too? I'm not acting entitled, but the free Beta testing and quality controls contribute to the mod's success, no?

As I have stated in many other posts, I do not blame this case on any particular person or website, but the poor designs of the concept.

__"A good community stands up and unites and fights together for the values it holds dear but all I have seen is you all fighting for your own self interests and it sickens me to see the community I love being broken apart by selfishness. "
Careful about what you say because are not modders being, as you stated, "selfish" as well for selling something that was once free? You deserve all the praise for your hardwork (via the donation system if users really appreciated it), but the current pay to play is illogical. I was under the impression that this values that we all hold dear was the free modding community for the past decades or so? Or am I delusional?

ramccoid wrote: The point being is I and others are doing this for free, that's why we are here and not at Steam but what you in your protest forget is we are who you are fighting for, the creators of your free mods.

We are human and have feelings too.

locomotive1236 wrote: I never lost that goal and I detest those that viciously attack the authors with hate and death threats. However, do you want the system that valve implemented to stay? Do you want them to obtain 75% of your cut for sitting on their hands the whole time? Do you forsee more people will download your mods and try them out if they have to pay? Perhaps it is better to get a few dollars out of your work than none, but is that the spirit of modding that you pursue? Did you initially mod to earn a few dollars or to improve the community? If you are the former, then you are also a businessman and also have your own selfish desires, no? Again, I'm not trying to insult you or anyone who believe they deserve their work to be paid, I'm just asking was that why you started modding or has money changed everything?

phantompally76 wrote: I'm not fighting for you, or any other mod author. I'm not fighting for mod users, either. And I'm certainly not fighting for any website admins or corporate CEOs.

I'm fighting for common sense and decency. THAT is what is at stake, here.

And no matter what side of the battle you're on, if you lose sight of that (or never had sight of it in the first place), then you've already lost.

ramccoid wrote: Do I need to repeat myself. I and others ARE DOING THIS FOR FREE and always will. We do not have a interest in making money from you that is why we are here on the Nexus, not Steam. We do and have been doing this for our community.

locomotive1236 wrote: As I said before, I am thankful for yours and others contributions to the community. Don't take my posts as an attack on you or your peers, I am only trying to see the situation from another point of view. Call it justification if you will. Some people believe in the end justify the means and they will go to extreme lengths to achieve that goal. They are also emotional since they felt betrayed by certain people (doesn't even matter if that's true or not). The mob is always fickle and easy to upset. We've seen this in history before and it will happen again. It doesn't make it right, but it may be necessary to stem the encroachment of capitalism to mods, however hopeless that is.

ramccoid wrote: Which I understand, so why didn't you use this enthusiasm before all this happened to show you appreciation to mod authors?
Because now it just looks like a betrayal to us who just wanted and still do, to mod to give enjoyment to you.

TKHBMVP wrote: You hit the point ramccoid I guess. There are a lot of half knowledge people about the business background discussing here. Most people which decided to publish their work on Steam and even on the paid mod section have read the rules well to publish mods which contains others legwork to benefit from the distribution of the money everybody earns there. And how to do right.

Everybody should calm down, read everything carefully, and concentrate on what it is worth.

locomotive1236 wrote: @ramcoid I have never disrespected someone's work because I know the time and effort it may have taken. I did not mod Skyrim, but have done so for some games in the past. I know modding is never as easy as it seems from the outside.

To answer your question though. It's because I simply did not think there was a problem in the previous system. Like I said, I have sacrificed a lot of my time for other games to create stuff and share with other people. I came to expect nothing in return, besides some gratitude and praise now and then. I offered them freely since that was what I thought was the right thing to do. I did not think about how many others have no shared my sentiments

@TKHBMVP I'm not sure if I actually understood what you are trying to say.

ramccoid wrote: @phantompally76

Fair enough then, another mod author gone because of your arrogant, self centred views. When we're all gone, what free mods are you protesting for?

disregard. I was responding to another 2 mile-long thread.

Edited April 27, 2015 by phantompally76