Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[DeciTheSpy]

You guys are acting like Dark0ne came up with paying for mods. Guy's, Nexus having donations is fine, Nexus mods will still be free, Most modders WILL stay on Nexus, So please calm down...

[MetalMatt61]

Seems like modding is going to/is now, a business venture rather than a hobby... ? Its beginning to feel like that the more information I read.

[Psijonica]

In response to post #24650844. #24651244, #24651614, #24652419 are all replies on the same post.

Godlybosshog wrote:

gastovski wrote: Dark0ne should have said that "I'm against paid mods altogether regardless of who gets money. But he is staying neutral about this and this is most disturbing news. I couldn't believe my eyes after reading the last post.

Godlybosshog wrote: If he would of done that, he would of had to reject the 5% offer valve made. But as I stated before, we could of came to another ends. There are plenty of other viable options. Watch Ted Talks The Art of Asking with Amanda Palmer. This site and creators could of lived off donations if it was executed properly with Bethesda. But let bygones be bygones. I just hope it can be resolved in the future, which is why we are all here I presume.

gastovski wrote: It won't be i'm afraid. When money involves it will flow a river without hitting any barriers. I know he is getting %5 from Valve so he is neutral at this but it's totally wrong.

You guys explained your selves much better than I did and somehow avoided all the trolls and insults. i agree with everything that has been posted here... I will just add that there is a reason why Dark0ne doesn't take a position yet and that is because he doesn't have to. He makes money off of the Valve Pay-for-Mods system and if it goes away he can then say, "see I fought for you guys." But if you read what he has been posting it is very clear that he is ok with Pay-for-Mods. He makes a lot of money from this website and he deserves it. It is a good website and he offers a good service, the best really but he lied and he got caught with his pants down.

SOPA is next now... So quickly has this turned against us, so quickly has this generation accepted Pay-for-Mods... the consequences from this terrible mistake are going to reverberate fro a long, long time.

[Brasscatcher]

In response to post #24652689. #24652809, #24653034 are all replies on the same post.

modskyrimtopieces wrote:

Reaper0021 wrote: Seriously? Ad revenues make money for Nexus as do donations and memberships and.....oh why bother your just another damn Conspiracy Theorist with his mind made-up. Go somewhere else then and good luck.

WhiskyTime wrote: You forgot to differ the members that are acutally part of the community, and members like me, who write their 2nd post ever on Nexus although registered since 2008. I guess people like me just don´t give a ... .

Whatever the Nexus people do with the money they earn - in my oppinion, the site´s running good and after all, we can be happy that there´s things like this community. Getting mods for a game was not that comfortable some time ago.

Anyway, what i wanted to say is - i don´t need "to-the-point" answers and there´s surely a good amount of people who think the same - as long as everything´s running well there´s no problem.
For the record - the only thing i was asked for is to turn off my Adblocker - nobody told me this site would not run without a £1.29 "donation".

Wooow.

What flavor is your Kool-Aid, man? You're supposed to dilute that stuff with water, y'know?

[Habardeen]

 

The worry is with the introduction of Curated Workshops that free and open modding will be removed entirely, as in, it just won't be possible to do. You've seen the arguments before with developers like BioWare and DICE no longer supporting modding with their games, they say it's because it's too complicated for modders or because they don't have time to work on the tools, many users argue it's because they don't want mods to cut in to DLC sales. I don't know any more about it than you in that regard, but if you're running a curated modding marketplace and there's a site out there with lots of mods available for free (note: probably not the same mods, as that wouldn't make sense!) will you willingly let that continue or would you try to ensure all your mods were going through your curated marketplace? I guess it would entirely depend on the developer and publisher in question, but if you ask me, my main concern now is the DRMification and closing down of free and open modding, the concept that modding can only take place if it's done through one official platform to the detriment of all others. Because up until now that's definitely not what modding has been about at all.

 

 

 

This is happening right now.

I follow this community and the modding scene since way back and I do not honestly see how DRMification is NOT happening right there on Steam Workshoop, right now.

 

Am I missing something?

[popcorn71]

In response to post #24651664. #24652349, #24652889, #24652914, #24653009, #24653169, #24653269 are all replies on the same post.

popcorn71 wrote:

hellosanta wrote: I think, Valve's decision on not to take down Chesko's files all together is actually right move. There are people who actually paid for Chesko's mods, that's why they are keeping the file available for those who paid while making it inaccessible to those who haven't paid. It's the same for any other games sold in Steam. Even if the game was deleted from Steam store, the game is still available in customer's library. They are just keeping contents for those who paid for them. It's for the sake of customers. They could, very well, choose to refund and delete the files completely. And that's what they are going to do if they are "legally compelled".

marthgun wrote: Good faith??? Are you kidding me? Chesko SIGNED OVER HIS MODS TO VALVE AND BETHESDA

He has no one to blame. I have been beating the drum against this very thing since i heard about paid modding. Now that beth has your mod, and they make money off of it, they may see it beneficial to issue DMCA to the free versions or copy cats.

Everyone wants to talk about money this and money that. If Steam had a more fair payout, i wouldn't really care. It's going to cause massive problems, it already has, but the issues of liability, i.e. who's responsible when the mod you paid for breaks your game, and copywrite should be the biggest concerns about all of this. The only thing i am moderately upset about is the Robin accepting this as is, and yet there isn't a good reason to deny free cash. This whole thing is mind numbing.

popcorn71 wrote: Once you download a file from the workshop and its in your data folder it wouldn't mater what steam did with the mod. Just because steam deletes a file from their data base doesn't mean that the file is magically deleted of the computers of people who bought the mod. They most certainly could remove the file without any ill effects on people who bought it, but are choosing not to. Why? Because the have not been "compelled to" and they know that Chesko is probably not in a positions to "compel" them to remove it.

When you upload a file to steam your essentially forfeit any control you had over it. Hell, they even tell you that in the licensee agreement. And the platform people want to well their mods? Not smart at all.

popcorn71 wrote: @ marthgun
Im not defending Chesko. What He did was really REALLY stupid. I'm trying to make a point to other people who seem to think its a good idea to sell mods in this particular way.

marthgun wrote: yeah its insane to hand over your mods to steam / beth. I don't think they are even obligated to pay you for them If they wanted to repackage / bundle your mods in a "best of" series, i don't see why they would even need to pay you.

But everyone wants to talk about how great it is that modders will be able to make money. I wonder if that will hold up when 20,000 mods are behind a pay wall. If they took the top 100 mods here and sold them, that is more palatable. But they would still be giving away their mods to steam / beth.

I really hope people make a bunch of money off of their mods and prove me wrong. I hope it makes people millions. I don't see how it will, but it's doubtful this is going away anytime soon; way too much money in it for steam / beth.

hellosanta wrote: I do think it's more like customer service. What if someone deleted Skyrim and re-install it? Now the file they have purchased is gone. Same goes for the game. Since you don't have physical copy and there is only digital copy available from the server of platform you purchased the item, it's just that Steam can't delete the file from their server readily. If they do, they will have to deal with massive amount of angry customers. Ideal is just to refund what customers have purchased. But even then, that's not very ideal in terms of Skyrim mods because absence of scripted mods break the save file almost all times. There are just many other things to be considered. And, on side note, Steam's refund policy is just plain stupid.

Then they are a total dumb ass for not backing up their junk before deleting it.
Rule #1 of modding : back up, back up, back up. If you are going to make any changes at all to your gaming environment then back up the files before you do so. because you never know when you change something if its going to destroy your game. And yes, this holds true for deleting mod and/or the entire game as well. Edited April 25, 2015 by popcorn71

[Psijonica]

In response to post #24652689. #24652809, #24653034, #24653509 are all replies on the same post.

modskyrimtopieces wrote:

Reaper0021 wrote: Seriously? Ad revenues make money for Nexus as do donations and memberships and.....oh why bother your just another damn Conspiracy Theorist with his mind made-up. Go somewhere else then and good luck.

WhiskyTime wrote: You forgot to differ the members that are acutally part of the community, and members like me, who write their 2nd post ever on Nexus although registered since 2008. I guess people like me just don´t give a ... .

Whatever the Nexus people do with the money they earn - in my oppinion, the site´s running good and after all, we can be happy that there´s things like this community. Getting mods for a game was not that comfortable some time ago.

Anyway, what i wanted to say is - i don´t need "to-the-point" answers and there´s surely a good amount of people who think the same - as long as everything´s running well there´s no problem.
For the record - the only thing i was asked for is to turn off my Adblocker - nobody told me this site would not run without a £1.29 "donation".

Brasscatcher wrote: Wooow.

What flavor is your Kool-Aid, man? You're supposed to dilute that stuff with water, y'know?

Reaper you are just becoming a troll! People are allowed to have different opinions. There is no need to start with the insults. I thought you said you were an adult? ACT LIKE ONE PLEASE!

Obviously modskyrimtopieces I support everything you have stated here today.Keep fighting. Edited April 25, 2015 by Psijonica

[modskyrimtopieces]

In response to post #24652689. #24652809, #24653034, #24653509, #24653644 are all replies on the same post.

modskyrimtopieces wrote:

Reaper0021 wrote: Seriously? Ad revenues make money for Nexus as do donations and memberships and.....oh why bother your just another damn Conspiracy Theorist with his mind made-up. Go somewhere else then and good luck.

WhiskyTime wrote: You forgot to differ the members that are acutally part of the community, and members like me, who write their 2nd post ever on Nexus although registered since 2008. I guess people like me just don´t give a ... .

Whatever the Nexus people do with the money they earn - in my oppinion, the site´s running good and after all, we can be happy that there´s things like this community. Getting mods for a game was not that comfortable some time ago.

Anyway, what i wanted to say is - i don´t need "to-the-point" answers and there´s surely a good amount of people who think the same - as long as everything´s running well there´s no problem.
For the record - the only thing i was asked for is to turn off my Adblocker - nobody told me this site would not run without a £1.29 "donation".

Brasscatcher wrote: Wooow.

What flavor is your Kool-Aid, man? You're supposed to dilute that stuff with water, y'know?

Psijonica wrote: Reaper you are just becoming a troll! People are allowed to have different opinions. There is no need to start with the insults. I thought you said you were an adult? ACT LIKE ONE PLEASE!

Obviously modskyrimtopieces I support everything you have stated here today.Keep fighting.

Thing is, the guys behind the Nexus sound as bad as Steam. They have turned modding into a business for them, but not the modders. I understand the need to accumulate funds for running a large website, but the numbers don't add up to me.

Is this site actually registered as a business? Because it seems clear now that people behind this site are actually profiting and this steam drama lately has exposed this.

[marthgun]

In response to post #24653094.

Apocalipse666 wrote:

from reading a bunch of crap last night,

I believe that under US law and most European Laws, that if you create a mod, its technically your intellectual property. This gets a bit funny if you use the CK or GECK to make it, because now Bethesda has a partial claim to it. From what I read though, its practically yours as long as you don't distribute it. Beth could raise an issue with you distributing mods, but would probably lose the case in most countries. But if you charged for it, then you would probably lose.

this is why its not a good idea to hand beth your mod, because without a doubt the only reason you are "allowed" to sell it is because Bethesda owns it outright. This opens up a lot of problems if you make a popular mod and decide to overhaul it, they could step in and stop you from doing it. Or they could issue DMCA on the free versions of your mod across the internet. I'm not 100% sure on how it works, but that's what i gathered from what i read.

[Tanniss]

In response to post #24645544. #24646089, #24649659, #24649709, #24651129, #24651814 are all replies on the same post.

jmeks23 wrote:

PharCry wrote: "HOWEVER, I don't think that means compensation is deserved. Not to say you shouldn't be able to donate to these creators and what not, but I just don't feel like I should be forced to pay for any type of mod."

So they can't ask for money, for something they created, put their own hard work into? They absolutely must allow everyone to have it for free if they have shared it with the community? For something they've poured tens, hundreds or more hours into? Testing with other users, gathering feedback and data, troubleshooting, etc? All the while doing their day job and or whatever else they may have to contend with in regards to life?

"The thing about mods is you can have up to 200+ running at a time, and most people here probably play with somewhere between 25-100. Imagine even paying $.99 for 100 mods? And most mods I'm seeing on the workshop are charging more than $.99. Why would I ever do that?"

They're not making it a requirement to charge money for mods! Too many people are used to the idea of just having mods for free. This introduces a way that content creators can actually make a little money for what they are doing (hell maybe consider downloading Blender and NifSkope and the Creation Kit, learning how they work and making your own mods? WOW WHAT A CONCEPT). Why is this a bad thing?

I'm not saying it again after this: IMO Valve needs to reconsider how much they are taking as a cut from mod makers, but the mod makers do deserve some compensation IF THEY DEEM IT NECESSARY. We can pay for it if we like it (there is a 24 hour policy, probably should be 48 but again, something that needs dealt with on Valve's end, and something WE as a community can respond to). Stop crying about this, give input as it evolves, and stop acting like this only benefits Valve and Nexus!

locomotive1236 wrote: Our of curiosity, do some of the tools used to make mods, such as blender, nifskope, photoshop, have a disclaimer saying that not to be used for commercial products? If you do you have to buy a licensed one for a prolonged period? I know most don't really care if you use it for personal stuff, but once it's out in the market they have rights to the products too?

sunshinenbrick wrote: Very important point made above!

Saerileth wrote: It's interesting how most of these detailed explanations of "what modding is all about" come from people who have not uploaded a single mod of their own. How can you judge the "right" reasons to mod, and who should (or shouldn't) be modding in the first place? I'm a mod author myself, and I still don't presume to know the motivations of all the others. I can only speak for myself.

locomotive1236 wrote: @Saerileth, I speak for no other as well. I do not have the skill or want to mod SKyrim because there's already so many mods out there available that do the same thing that I desired. And you're fairly limiting modding to only Skyrim and not looking at the big picture. There are other games with mods as well and this is one of those platform that supports modding community. I've made some popular and some not so-popular mods/addons in the past for some games I don't care to mention. I have also create stuff for myself that share to my friends.

I feel that your attack on those that haven't put up a mod and have no say is unwarranted. Most that do not have a mod participated in one way or another with the creation or perfection of some mods, whether by inputs or feedbacks. To say they have no right to to say what modding is about for themselves is a little shortsighted, no?

If I have mistaken your point then I apologize, but modding community is not just about the authors who has hosted at least 1 mod. This is not to be taken as the authors don't deserve any praise, as they should definitely be. All I'm saying is the "beta testing" helps the modding community more than anything.

actually you are correct in most instances they have two versions of a product one for personal use (which is usually free) to wit you arent allowed to use those for commercial gain and then they have the professional produce (which you have to buy to use ) which even then still only has a limited commercial availability usage of
Not to mention the use of copyrighted material which is in alot of mods that is a no no and will end up getting dmac'd out the ass

My issue with this is simple dark one calls it cutting his nose off to spite his face which if he was all for paid modding would make sense but your stand point is such that you fear that free modding and the COMMUNITIES that support such endeavors will go the way of the do do. That you allow yourself to be construed as a supporter of said paid practices when whether you choose to admit to yourself or not you are a champion for freed modding why would you send such a mixed signal because whether you believe it or not you are by no means being neutral being neutral means you have no opinion one way or the other...
when in fact you are taking money from valve's cut (which if you were to send to the top modders on here as a donation to help keep them modding for free would be giving only one clear signal) while also saying you fear that this will cause free modding to go away seems to be giving out confused and mixed signals...
I do not have any doubts that you take valves money thinking to do good with it but we all know valve is only doing this to take your legs and your integrity from you when they decide to come out with harsher rules for the modders to upload to them if you make waves they will just use the "You were not opposed to this course of action before as you gladly accepted our money stance" i love the nexus and in many many forums today i have posted that the alternative to this valve fiasco is to come here that being said being neutral means not doing anything to promote a sense of side taking and sorry taking money from valve while stating that you are afraid the way this will go could make our home for everything modding go away is taking both sides