Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[UberSmaug]

In response to post #24645544. #24646089, #24649659, #24649709, #24651129, #24651814, #24653749, #24654389, #24662464 are all replies on the same post.

jmeks23 wrote:

PharCry wrote: "HOWEVER, I don't think that means compensation is deserved. Not to say you shouldn't be able to donate to these creators and what not, but I just don't feel like I should be forced to pay for any type of mod."

So they can't ask for money, for something they created, put their own hard work into? They absolutely must allow everyone to have it for free if they have shared it with the community? For something they've poured tens, hundreds or more hours into? Testing with other users, gathering feedback and data, troubleshooting, etc? All the while doing their day job and or whatever else they may have to contend with in regards to life?

"The thing about mods is you can have up to 200+ running at a time, and most people here probably play with somewhere between 25-100. Imagine even paying $.99 for 100 mods? And most mods I'm seeing on the workshop are charging more than $.99. Why would I ever do that?"

They're not making it a requirement to charge money for mods! Too many people are used to the idea of just having mods for free. This introduces a way that content creators can actually make a little money for what they are doing (hell maybe consider downloading Blender and NifSkope and the Creation Kit, learning how they work and making your own mods? WOW WHAT A CONCEPT). Why is this a bad thing?

I'm not saying it again after this: IMO Valve needs to reconsider how much they are taking as a cut from mod makers, but the mod makers do deserve some compensation IF THEY DEEM IT NECESSARY. We can pay for it if we like it (there is a 24 hour policy, probably should be 48 but again, something that needs dealt with on Valve's end, and something WE as a community can respond to). Stop crying about this, give input as it evolves, and stop acting like this only benefits Valve and Nexus!

locomotive1236 wrote: Our of curiosity, do some of the tools used to make mods, such as blender, nifskope, photoshop, have a disclaimer saying that not to be used for commercial products? If you do you have to buy a licensed one for a prolonged period? I know most don't really care if you use it for personal stuff, but once it's out in the market they have rights to the products too?

sunshinenbrick wrote: Very important point made above!

Saerileth wrote: It's interesting how most of these detailed explanations of "what modding is all about" come from people who have not uploaded a single mod of their own. How can you judge the "right" reasons to mod, and who should (or shouldn't) be modding in the first place? I'm a mod author myself, and I still don't presume to know the motivations of all the others. I can only speak for myself.

locomotive1236 wrote: @Saerileth, I speak for no other as well. I do not have the skill or want to mod SKyrim because there's already so many mods out there available that do the same thing that I desired. And you're fairly limiting modding to only Skyrim and not looking at the big picture. There are other games with mods as well and this is one of those platform that supports modding community. I've made some popular and some not so-popular mods/addons in the past for some games I don't care to mention. I have also create stuff for myself that share to my friends.

I feel that your attack on those that haven't put up a mod and have no say is unwarranted. Most that do not have a mod participated in one way or another with the creation or perfection of some mods, whether by inputs or feedbacks. To say they have no right to to say what modding is about for themselves is a little shortsighted, no?

If I have mistaken your point then I apologize, but modding community is not just about the authors who has hosted at least 1 mod. This is not to be taken as the authors don't deserve any praise, as they should definitely be. All I'm saying is the "beta testing" helps the modding community more than anything.

Tanniss wrote: actually you are correct in most instances they have two versions of a product one for personal use (which is usually free) to wit you arent allowed to use those for commercial gain and then they have the professional produce (which you have to buy to use ) which even then still only has a limited commercial availability usage of
Not to mention the use of copyrighted material which is in alot of mods that is a no no and will end up getting dmac'd out the ass

My issue with this is simple dark one calls it cutting his nose off to spite his face which if he was all for paid modding would make sense but your stand point is such that you fear that free modding and the COMMUNITIES that support such endeavors will go the way of the do do. That you allow yourself to be construed as a supporter of said paid practices when whether you choose to admit to yourself or not you are a champion for freed modding why would you send such a mixed signal because whether you believe it or not you are by no means being neutral being neutral means you have no opinion one way or the other...
when in fact you are taking money from valve's cut (which if you were to send to the top modders on here as a donation to help keep them modding for free would be giving only one clear signal) while also saying you fear that this will cause free modding to go away seems to be giving out confused and mixed signals...
I do not have any doubts that you take valves money thinking to do good with it but we all know valve is only doing this to take your legs and your integrity from you when they decide to come out with harsher rules for the modders to upload to them if you make waves they will just use the "You were not opposed to this course of action before as you gladly accepted our money stance" i love the nexus and in many many forums today i have posted that the alternative to this valve fiasco is to come here that being said being neutral means not doing anything to promote a sense of side taking and sorry taking money from valve while stating that you are afraid the way this will go could make our home for everything modding go away is taking both sides

Saerileth wrote: I did not attack anyone! I merely made an observation. You cannot deny that the most resounding and outspoken response to this topic comes from the users, and not the mod authors of this community. And I'm having a hard time believing that not at least part of the outrage come right down to "I don't want to have to pay for all these lovely mods that I'm used to have for free". And I can totally understand that sentiment! Knowing that some of my favourite mods will no longer be freely available to me makes me sad, because lets face it no one enjoys giving away money. I'm just getting very tired of seeing people talk up this grand cause of how they don't support paid mods out of principle, when it is usually simply that they do not want to pay for them. Call things by what they are.

No one has the right to define what "modding is all about", that is something each member of the community has to decide for him/herself (much as no one can claim to objectively define what is "art" and what is not, to give you a better example of what I mean). You can't set down "right" or "wrong" reasons for sharing mods, that would be looking a gift horse into the mouth. Every author has their own reasons for doing what they do. There are some things that the community as a whole has a say in - this is not one of them.

locomotive1236 wrote: "You cannot deny that the most resounding and outspoken response to this topic comes from the users, and not the mod authors of this community."

I partially agree with this, but it's also because the users outnumbered mod authors by a hefty margin. By simple statistics you will see more posts from users than actual authors. However, if you have scanned around the forums, you will note that some mod authors do voice in their opinions and their stances. Another thing, since emotions are high right now, it is much wiser for many authors to lay low and do not voice their opinions because the mob is doing witch hunt. Unfortunately, they'll look for any excuses to chastise people on the issue.

"I'm just getting very tired of seeing people talk up this grand cause of how they don't support paid mods out of principle, when it is usually simply that they do not want to pay for them. Call things by what they are."

I completely agree with this. Principle is easily swayed and is used to justify a lot of things, bad or good.

Anyways, does anyone have an answer to my previous question about the free programs used to make the mods? I feel that even something simple as photoshop would be able to pull rights on many of these texture mods. Not to sure about the other freewares.

"You have officially ruined any hopes of you being a reputable Modder... Congratulations you money grabbing c*nt."

Statements like this Is why authors are staying quiet and for good reason. I've even seen stuff about trying to find authors home address in some attempt to threaten bodily harm if you try to sell your mods. I'm gonna play devils advocate here and hopefully put some of the positive aspects of this into perspective.

Saerileth was right in pointing out that he found it odd that people who have contributed nothing tangible to the community are crying betrayal. I too am at a loss on how someone can talk about the sprit of modding when they've never actually done any modding. Modding is not downloading a file. Why do you feel you are entitled some else's work? That's not a community, that's communism.

People have been eating a free lunch and your pissed that the menu may be changing, get real. I've never read the amount of self-entitle BS I've seen in the past few days. "Modders don't deserve to ask for compensation"... Why the hell not? I work really long and hard on my mods, weeks and months and years of my life. Bethesda and Valve don't deserve a cut... Why not? They made the game and provided us the toolkit to begin with. Valve gives us a place to share them. I would have no problem giving Nexus a cut too had they such a service . Would I like a bigger cut. Of course I do something closer to 50% would be great then you wouldn't have to overprice your mod to actually see some real money. Don't forget the G men are gonna want their cut too. But what about the Bethesda employees. What do you think the split is like there. That would be interesting to see the numbers but I guarantee Bethesda is getting the bigger piece, so no surprise there.

"Modding as a profession is wrong..." Why wouldn't I like to get paid to mod. Freelance game artist sounds like a pretty sweet job to me. Hell that's would be my dream job. Work from home, on my own time, no deadline hanging over my head. Only work on the projects I want to work on. I wouldn't even have to wear pants.

Its not greedy to ask fair compensation for your work. Its greedy to ask to get everything for free. And no one is forcing you to buy anything. If you don't think the mod is worth the asking price then don't buy it. If you buy a mod and turns out you don't like it you can get a refund. Hell you can't even sell anything until you get enough endorsements from the community. The only people trying to force anything are the people petitioning to have the paid mods shut down.

That said I don't think free mods should or will go away. Not every mod is worth being paid for. You have no business trying to sell a retexture or port from other games. In fact if your mod is not stand alone, meaning if it requires another mod to work I think it is in poor taste to try and sell it unless you've worked out a deal with the other author. Some of these mods are popular and there will always be a demand for them but should not be sold for profit. Modders need a place to learn and grow and it sounds like the nexus will remain that place. However I think there is room to improve the community by establishing a place where premium mods can be sold. Where fair trade can be established.

It is way too easy for a good mod to get drowned in a sea of crap before it has a chance to be seen. If your mod doesn't make the hot list in the first week your pretty much dead in the water. Very few people make the effort to sift through the garbage to find that lost gem and its a damn shame. Creating a new marketplace where modders that hold themselves to a higher standard of quality can be given their fair shot and be compensated for there hard work is perfectly justified in my opinion. People act like it is a crime to sell mods, I what I find criminal is what counts as a mod these days.

This is not the death of modding. Its a chance to raise the bar. If you are selling a mod it should be finished product with a fair price. Not some half ass junk you whipped up in ten minutes, like idk say a green sword retexture with a dollar sign on it for $99.99. That is something to be outraged about. If we do this right It can be a good thing for everyone. Devs get money, that make them happy, and maybe hopefully even more Devs will give us modding resources and a bigger cut to the modder down the road. Modders get money, that makes them happy. Maybe even enough to quit your day job and be a full time modder, which means more/better mods for you. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.

Please do not be so short sighted on this. No it wont be perfect just yet and some tweaks to the model will inevitably happen. Just don't hate on this and ruin it before we see where it can go. If it fail it fails and things will go back to 100% free. Because while I can't speak for others. Yes I do it because I love to do it, and If I can make money at the same time it makes me want to do it even more. I don't think that makes me a bad person.

[Faalor]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away I actually liked reading the discussions on these blog pieces on the Nexus - they were interesting, and civil...

And now they are worse than YouTube.

[SurrealCruelty]

In response to post #24645544. #24646089, #24649659, #24649709, #24651129, #24651814, #24653749, #24654389, #24662464, #24667379 are all replies on the same post.

jmeks23 wrote:

PharCry wrote: "HOWEVER, I don't think that means compensation is deserved. Not to say you shouldn't be able to donate to these creators and what not, but I just don't feel like I should be forced to pay for any type of mod."

So they can't ask for money, for something they created, put their own hard work into? They absolutely must allow everyone to have it for free if they have shared it with the community? For something they've poured tens, hundreds or more hours into? Testing with other users, gathering feedback and data, troubleshooting, etc? All the while doing their day job and or whatever else they may have to contend with in regards to life?

"The thing about mods is you can have up to 200+ running at a time, and most people here probably play with somewhere between 25-100. Imagine even paying $.99 for 100 mods? And most mods I'm seeing on the workshop are charging more than $.99. Why would I ever do that?"

They're not making it a requirement to charge money for mods! Too many people are used to the idea of just having mods for free. This introduces a way that content creators can actually make a little money for what they are doing (hell maybe consider downloading Blender and NifSkope and the Creation Kit, learning how they work and making your own mods? WOW WHAT A CONCEPT). Why is this a bad thing?

I'm not saying it again after this: IMO Valve needs to reconsider how much they are taking as a cut from mod makers, but the mod makers do deserve some compensation IF THEY DEEM IT NECESSARY. We can pay for it if we like it (there is a 24 hour policy, probably should be 48 but again, something that needs dealt with on Valve's end, and something WE as a community can respond to). Stop crying about this, give input as it evolves, and stop acting like this only benefits Valve and Nexus!

locomotive1236 wrote: Our of curiosity, do some of the tools used to make mods, such as blender, nifskope, photoshop, have a disclaimer saying that not to be used for commercial products? If you do you have to buy a licensed one for a prolonged period? I know most don't really care if you use it for personal stuff, but once it's out in the market they have rights to the products too?

sunshinenbrick wrote: Very important point made above!

Saerileth wrote: It's interesting how most of these detailed explanations of "what modding is all about" come from people who have not uploaded a single mod of their own. How can you judge the "right" reasons to mod, and who should (or shouldn't) be modding in the first place? I'm a mod author myself, and I still don't presume to know the motivations of all the others. I can only speak for myself.

locomotive1236 wrote: @Saerileth, I speak for no other as well. I do not have the skill or want to mod SKyrim because there's already so many mods out there available that do the same thing that I desired. And you're fairly limiting modding to only Skyrim and not looking at the big picture. There are other games with mods as well and this is one of those platform that supports modding community. I've made some popular and some not so-popular mods/addons in the past for some games I don't care to mention. I have also create stuff for myself that share to my friends.

I feel that your attack on those that haven't put up a mod and have no say is unwarranted. Most that do not have a mod participated in one way or another with the creation or perfection of some mods, whether by inputs or feedbacks. To say they have no right to to say what modding is about for themselves is a little shortsighted, no?

If I have mistaken your point then I apologize, but modding community is not just about the authors who has hosted at least 1 mod. This is not to be taken as the authors don't deserve any praise, as they should definitely be. All I'm saying is the "beta testing" helps the modding community more than anything.

Tanniss wrote: actually you are correct in most instances they have two versions of a product one for personal use (which is usually free) to wit you arent allowed to use those for commercial gain and then they have the professional produce (which you have to buy to use ) which even then still only has a limited commercial availability usage of
Not to mention the use of copyrighted material which is in alot of mods that is a no no and will end up getting dmac'd out the ass

My issue with this is simple dark one calls it cutting his nose off to spite his face which if he was all for paid modding would make sense but your stand point is such that you fear that free modding and the COMMUNITIES that support such endeavors will go the way of the do do. That you allow yourself to be construed as a supporter of said paid practices when whether you choose to admit to yourself or not you are a champion for freed modding why would you send such a mixed signal because whether you believe it or not you are by no means being neutral being neutral means you have no opinion one way or the other...
when in fact you are taking money from valve's cut (which if you were to send to the top modders on here as a donation to help keep them modding for free would be giving only one clear signal) while also saying you fear that this will cause free modding to go away seems to be giving out confused and mixed signals...
I do not have any doubts that you take valves money thinking to do good with it but we all know valve is only doing this to take your legs and your integrity from you when they decide to come out with harsher rules for the modders to upload to them if you make waves they will just use the "You were not opposed to this course of action before as you gladly accepted our money stance" i love the nexus and in many many forums today i have posted that the alternative to this valve fiasco is to come here that being said being neutral means not doing anything to promote a sense of side taking and sorry taking money from valve while stating that you are afraid the way this will go could make our home for everything modding go away is taking both sides

Saerileth wrote: I did not attack anyone! I merely made an observation. You cannot deny that the most resounding and outspoken response to this topic comes from the users, and not the mod authors of this community. And I'm having a hard time believing that not at least part of the outrage come right down to "I don't want to have to pay for all these lovely mods that I'm used to have for free". And I can totally understand that sentiment! Knowing that some of my favourite mods will no longer be freely available to me makes me sad, because lets face it no one enjoys giving away money. I'm just getting very tired of seeing people talk up this grand cause of how they don't support paid mods out of principle, when it is usually simply that they do not want to pay for them. Call things by what they are.

No one has the right to define what "modding is all about", that is something each member of the community has to decide for him/herself (much as no one can claim to objectively define what is "art" and what is not, to give you a better example of what I mean). You can't set down "right" or "wrong" reasons for sharing mods, that would be looking a gift horse into the mouth. Every author has their own reasons for doing what they do. There are some things that the community as a whole has a say in - this is not one of them.

locomotive1236 wrote: "You cannot deny that the most resounding and outspoken response to this topic comes from the users, and not the mod authors of this community."

I partially agree with this, but it's also because the users outnumbered mod authors by a hefty margin. By simple statistics you will see more posts from users than actual authors. However, if you have scanned around the forums, you will note that some mod authors do voice in their opinions and their stances. Another thing, since emotions are high right now, it is much wiser for many authors to lay low and do not voice their opinions because the mob is doing witch hunt. Unfortunately, they'll look for any excuses to chastise people on the issue.

"I'm just getting very tired of seeing people talk up this grand cause of how they don't support paid mods out of principle, when it is usually simply that they do not want to pay for them. Call things by what they are."

I completely agree with this. Principle is easily swayed and is used to justify a lot of things, bad or good.

Anyways, does anyone have an answer to my previous question about the free programs used to make the mods? I feel that even something simple as photoshop would be able to pull rights on many of these texture mods. Not to sure about the other freewares.

UberSmaug wrote: "You have officially ruined any hopes of you being a reputable Modder... Congratulations you money grabbing c*nt."

Statements like this Is why authors are staying quiet and for good reason. I've even seen stuff about trying to find authors home address in some attempt to threaten bodily harm if you try to sell your mods. I'm gonna play devils advocate here and hopefully put some of the positive aspects of this into perspective.

Saerileth was right in pointing out that he found it odd that people who have contributed nothing tangible to the community are crying betrayal. I too am at a loss on how someone can talk about the sprit of modding when they've never actually done any modding. Modding is not downloading a file. Why do you feel you are entitled some else's work? That's not a community, that's communism.

People have been eating a free lunch and your pissed that the menu may be changing, get real. I've never read the amount of self-entitle BS I've seen in the past few days. "Modders don't deserve to ask for compensation"... Why the hell not? I work really long and hard on my mods, weeks and months and years of my life. Bethesda and Valve don't deserve a cut... Why not? They made the game and provided us the toolkit to begin with. Valve gives us a place to share them. I would have no problem giving Nexus a cut too had they such a service . Would I like a bigger cut. Of course I do something closer to 50% would be great then you wouldn't have to overprice your mod to actually see some real money. Don't forget the G men are gonna want their cut too. But what about the Bethesda employees. What do you think the split is like there. That would be interesting to see the numbers but I guarantee Bethesda is getting the bigger piece, so no surprise there.

"Modding as a profession is wrong..." Why wouldn't I like to get paid to mod. Freelance game artist sounds like a pretty sweet job to me. Hell that's would be my dream job. Work from home, on my own time, no deadline hanging over my head. Only work on the projects I want to work on. I wouldn't even have to wear pants.

Its not greedy to ask fair compensation for your work. Its greedy to ask to get everything for free. And no one is forcing you to buy anything. If you don't think the mod is worth the asking price then don't buy it. If you buy a mod and turns out you don't like it you can get a refund. Hell you can't even sell anything until you get enough endorsements from the community. The only people trying to force anything are the people petitioning to have the paid mods shut down.

That said I don't think free mods should or will go away. Not every mod is worth being paid for. You have no business trying to sell a retexture or port from other games. In fact if your mod is not stand alone, meaning if it requires another mod to work I think it is in poor taste to try and sell it unless you've worked out a deal with the other author. Some of these mods are popular and there will always be a demand for them but should not be sold for profit. Modders need a place to learn and grow and it sounds like the nexus will remain that place. However I think there is room to improve the community by establishing a place where premium mods can be sold. Where fair trade can be established.

It is way too easy for a good mod to get drowned in a sea of crap before it has a chance to be seen. If your mod doesn't make the hot list in the first week your pretty much dead in the water. Very few people make the effort to sift through the garbage to find that lost gem and its a damn shame. Creating a new marketplace where modders that hold themselves to a higher standard of quality can be given their fair shot and be compensated for there hard work is perfectly justified in my opinion. People act like it is a crime to sell mods, I what I find criminal is what counts as a mod these days.

This is not the death of modding. Its a chance to raise the bar. If you are selling a mod it should be finished product with a fair price. Not some half ass junk you whipped up in ten minutes, like idk say a green sword retexture with a dollar sign on it for $99.99. That is something to be outraged about. If we do this right It can be a good thing for everyone. Devs get money, that make them happy, and maybe hopefully even more Devs will give us modding resources and a bigger cut to the modder down the road. Modders get money, that makes them happy. Maybe even enough to quit your day job and be a full time modder, which means more/better mods for you. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.

Please do not be so short sighted on this. No it wont be perfect just yet and some tweaks to the model will inevitably happen. Just don't hate on this and ruin it before we see where it can go. If it fail it fails and things will go back to 100% free. Because while I can't speak for others. Yes I do it because I love to do it, and If I can make money at the same time it makes me want to do it even more. I don't think that makes me a bad person.

@locomotive
If you are using the educational versions of any Adobe product the EULA says you cannot use it for commercial purposes, that would pretty much include paid mods. That also applies to the educational version of 3DSMax, and for that matter with FaceGen and Poser. The professional versions of those programs are explicitly for commercial use.

As for Blender and Nifskope, I think they made their position on the whole thing clear by allowing themselves to be considered "contributors" by Valve. SKSE has pretty much stated on their website that you can use SKSE in mods to make money, but the resource itself will remain free.

I couldn't tell you if GIMP prohibits commercial use or not, but it's probably on their homepage and in any EULA they make you agree to when you download and install.

[Shadowmane01]

You know the first that came to my mind when I found out about pay-mods was this. The next TES game may well be a game that only allows mods from steam to work with it.

[anonownsyou]

In response to post #24650844. #24651244, #24651614, #24652419, #24653429, #24653759, #24653984, #24654254, #24666729 are all replies on the same post.

Godlybosshog wrote:

gastovski wrote: Dark0ne should have said that "I'm against paid mods altogether regardless of who gets money. But he is staying neutral about this and this is most disturbing news. I couldn't believe my eyes after reading the last post.

Godlybosshog wrote: If he would of done that, he would of had to reject the 5% offer valve made. But as I stated before, we could of came to another ends. There are plenty of other viable options. Watch Ted Talks The Art of Asking with Amanda Palmer. This site and creators could of lived off donations if it was executed properly with Bethesda. But let bygones be bygones. I just hope it can be resolved in the future, which is why we are all here I presume.

gastovski wrote: It won't be i'm afraid. When money involves it will flow a river without hitting any barriers. I know he is getting %5 from Valve so he is neutral at this but it's totally wrong.

Psijonica wrote: You guys explained your selves much better than I did and somehow avoided all the trolls and insults. i agree with everything that has been posted here... I will just add that there is a reason why Dark0ne doesn't take a position yet and that is because he doesn't have to. He makes money off of the Valve Pay-for-Mods system and if it goes away he can then say, "see I fought for you guys." But if you read what he has been posting it is very clear that he is ok with Pay-for-Mods. He makes a lot of money from this website and he deserves it. It is a good website and he offers a good service, the best really but he lied and he got caught with his pants down.

SOPA is next now... So quickly has this turned against us, so quickly has this generation accepted Pay-for-Mods... the consequences from this terrible mistake are going to reverberate fro a long, long time.

gastovski wrote: I've read your post too and i agree completely, Psijonica. This isn't about only Skyrim modding but people won't realize it. These times are dark and getting darker day by day for us PC gamers.

nekollx wrote: I can see some of your points but if the site promoting the mods (ie Valve) is involved then they have every right to a cut, they are building exposure, is 35% to much, probably but they deserve a cut, as for Bethsoft, well LEGALLY you are making money off their IP, by not giving them a cut your basically breaking IP law and they can sue your ass and take 100% plus your soul, so a cut to Bethsoft is perfectly logical if it prevents mod authors FROM GOING TO JAIL. That said mod authors deserve more then 25% since they are doing the lions share of the work, and larger mods often have teams i mean honestly lets say Falscarr is sold for $4, that means the modder, voice actors, and any one else in the team that expects a cut gets a portion of $1

Psijonica wrote: HANK YOU. That means so much to me. it was very hard not to fall into the TROLL TRAP that Dark0ne started with me. They love to do that here so that they can have a reason to ban you. Then all the kids join in and suddenly the moderators turn the other way because I am choose to take a different position and stand up for my beliefs.

yes you are right, the consequences from this are going to be terrible. The children and most adults don't understand European law or Copy Right LAw. When people complained about STEAM in the UK they turned around and banned all of their accounts. It is a power grab plain and simple.

There are no refunds from STEAM. You only get credit,you can purchase the game and mods and they can ban you at any time and you loose everything.

All the other gaming companies wiill follow this setup. If people like us just shut up like all the trolls want us to then we loose. We MUST KEEP YELLING our displeasure all the while keeping in mind that although our opposition will will try to bait us in a flame war we must keep our heads. Since they don't have a real good argument their only strategy id to try and bait us into a flame war.

locomotive1236 wrote: @Psijonia, You keep playing the victim and calling other people trolls. Well, let's analyze what you have posted and defended.

___"The children and most adults don't understand European law or Copy Right LAw. When people complained about STEAM in the UK they turned around and banned all of their accounts." -I see no concrete proofs. Pretty general blanketing statement about people too.
___"AND STOP PESTERING ME FOR MONEY!" -When nobody asked you to pay anything on this site?
___"No Endorsements, No Permissions, No Donations. 100% free mods 4-ever, one way or another." -If that's helping the modding community in anyway.....
___"I read what you wrote and I can only giggle that you have lowered yourself to calling me "stupid"' -- When nobody directly said you are stupid (self awareness?)
___"I am a stupid person who drives a Super Snake and I am laughing at how stupid you may think I am." --Maybe that was sarcasm? Or maybe....
___"You can fool all the kids here but anyone with real business and life experience sees right through you" --I guess you're the only expert
___"it says that you feel you need to bully me in order to distract people from the real issue " - victimization (someone call the FBI)
___"Of course I say that with tongue in cheek but I have been fighting the machine my whole life and I am getting tired... this really makes me not want to care any more and just let the children work it out themselves." - That's pretty impressive, fighting the "machines" and all. So vague yet so powerful.
___"If Dark0ne want to be the Champion " ---He never said that, you implied or you twisted his words to say so as evident by his quote: "If people are heralding me, specifically, as their champion in the fight against paid modding then they've done that of their own accord, and I certainly haven't agreed to be that champion."
___"Ya so what. Leave me alone. I was just giving him a little taste of his own medicine. "
___"What does that have to do with you? Right! Nothing. Now go pester someone else. You want to pay for mods, go ahead. I don't care about you. You are not even a modder."
___and then "If you are the adult you claim to be then please act like it now." ----Sounds like trolling to me
___"They gave us the CS (construction set) for free and allowed and trusted us to mod as a hobby. But we abused that trust and turned it into a business. And so now Big Daddy Bethesda is coming and punishing us " --- umm, what?
___"Oh don't bother, that guy xfallen has no friends, no pics, no mods. "
___"I think everyone should pay for mods. I hope it becomes the norm and that people become successful. I hope Dark0ne makes a lot of money from Valve."---Wait what?

I think I'll stop there as this is getting pretty rediculous. There's plenty more information for people to search though. If you read this and still believe she is not trolling, then I rest my case.

Attention gastovski and anyone else listening: No rational, sane, intelligent and critically-thinking person could justify being 'against paid mods altogether' without admitting flat-out that they believe modders don't deserve to be paid for their hard work.

Dark0ne isn't among the legions of cretins coming out of the woodwork demonizing hard-working people for trying to get a little something back. Anything they do manage to make (not just considering modder's sad 25) won't even approach the level of effort and commitment many of them have put into scripting, texturing, voice acting, writing, building and rebuilding, the 3am hotfixes for impatient crybabies, and on and on their work for you goes. Yet here the nay-sayers stand screaming "I DESERVE FREE STUFF, AND I EXPECT YOU TO PRODUCE IT WITHOUT COMPLAINT".

The notion that mods (many of which have development hours in the 1000+ area and smack of professional quality) are of less value than other pieces of work that nobody questions paying for, simply by virtue of them being mods, is totally and utterly asinine, and despicably disrespectful to the mod authors that produce them.

Saying you're against paid mods in principle is equivalent to saying to modders "you don't deserve compensation for hours of toil for my benefit, now get back to work, and don't forget to fix that navmesh this time, that's a good boy".

Modders work damn hard, and anyone saying that they don't deserve anything for that work is just slapping them in the face.

That they happily and readily produce that work at personal cost to themselves, sometimes a significant one, for the same people who would tell them that they don't deserve any tangible reward for it (while still mass-consuming said work), is a testament to their character and patience, their love and appreciation for their hobby and the few people genuinely capable of appreciating it, and the value of the Nexus itself, even if it reflects poorly on users that obviously take free mods for granted.

[mALX1]

In response to post #24646984. #24647104, #24647439, #24647524, #24647569, #24647954, #24648029, #24648264, #24648309, #24648414, #24648504, #24648519, #24648809, #24649619, #24650179, #24650239, #24650354, #24651039, #24651229, #24651294, #24651314, #24651324, #24651364, #24651429, #24651469, #24651679, #24651784, #24651844, #24651864, #24651949, #24652074, #24652084, #24652114, #24652274, #24652374, #24652484, #24652614, #24652634, #24652709, #24652984, #24652989, #24653374, #24654079, #24654169, #24654569, #24654739, #24654814, #24654864, #24654924, #24654954, #24655019, #24655324, #24655564, #24655599, #24655739, #24656204, #24656864, #24657599, #24657739, #24657834, #24658089, #24658219, #24658309, #24658354, #24658389, #24658469, #24658654, #24658804, #24661294, #24661744, #24661969, #24662334, #24662424, #24662559, #24662704, #24662874, #24662989, #24663029, #24663049, #24663124, #24663129, #24663169, #24663709, #24665544, #24665924, #24666139, #24666554, #24666584, #24666609 are all replies on the same post.

Psijonica wrote:

SchwererGustav wrote: This post wwll be deleted in...3...2...1...

You will see ;)

bigdeano89 wrote: Way to sound like an entitled 12 year old man. Dark0ne has been honest from the start. Good luck trying to find another site btw, all the others are either gone or ALSO took the service provider option. That includes AFKmods etc.

Dark0ne is not the only site to do that, so stop making them out to be the bad guys. Nexus has been around for years giving mod authors FREE space for mods big and small.

Dark0ne wrote:

As you paint yourself as the saviour of the free modding community

This post wwll be deleted in...3...2...1...

Why would I delete it? It's a perfect example of the people who don't actually read what I write and, in the process, make themselves look stupid.

SchwererGustav wrote: Because 2 of my comments got delleted befor...

The 1st was a bit aggressive the 2nd not at all.

rotwhip wrote: ooooh someone is angry.

Psijonica wrote: I read what you wrote and I can only giggle that you have lowered yourself to calling me "stupid" LoL

You can fool all the kids here but anyone with real business and life experience sees right through you.

If I am stupid because I don't take your words at face value then so be it... I am a stupid person who drives a Super Snake and I am laughing at how stupid you may think I am.

Basically you are still supporting Pay-for-Mods just that you are calling it by a different name. Many modders like Emma (I guess you think she is stup[id too now eh? Remember her, yoiur old friend who helped you with your uploaded system all thiose years ago?) also believe that this is wrong in every aspect... but I guess we are just stupid.

I can't really tell youwhat I think of you because hey, I'm in an unfair possition where you are able to swing insults but I can't.

Congratulations! *Applause*

benissugger wrote: he said you "make yourself[es] look stupid", not "you are stupid".

JoeyLock wrote: So basically Psijonica, you're saying "Stop asking me for money! Dark0ne just pay the $500,000 to run this community per year and deal with it!" yes? Think about that statement, Endorsements, Permissions and Donations are the very things that keep this community and these mods afloat, if you want 100% free mods, make them all yourself and pay for the site to upload them on.

twhelan wrote: We must excuse those who cannot understand the context of a single sentence.

WightMage wrote: What does Emma, creator of Vilja, have anything to do with this?

Dark0ne wrote: You started with, in response to my article:

As you paint yourself as the saviour of the free modding community

I've already written:

If people are heralding me, specifically, as their champion in the fight against paid modding then they've done that of their own accord, and I certainly haven't agreed to be that champion....Does this sound like a champion of modding being free everywhere? No, it does not. Do not use me as the poster-child for that campaign as I never said I was.

So you either didn't read it, or you read it, and then decided to say I was painting myself as the "saviour of the free modding community" when I've specifically said I neither am or want to have that title. So yes, you look stupid. Even more so, now.

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica

Am I going to close all my account? No, not yet. But as soon as there is an alternative choice you can bet I will choose it.

I'm sure that threatening to close your FREE Nexus account that you pay NOTHING for, has most of the people at The Nexus quaking in their boots.

seversky wrote: Psijonica, you are an incredibly spoiled little child. Go away please. Don't come back.

phantompally76 wrote: I don't think Psijonica "looks stupid" at all, Dark0ne.

Quite the opposite, actually.

And I also think that YOU are coming out of this looking dishonest, petty, unapologetic, and at the risk of upsetting you (which is not my intention), just a little sociopathic.

You can't shrug or laugh this off. This is a MUCH bigger deal than you're trying to make it out to be, and just because you refuse to admit there is a problem with your lack of disclosure and transparancy....that doesn't make the problem go away.

And like it or not, a LOT of people have a problem with this.

Reaper0021 wrote: There is no "Bigger Deal". All of it was blatantly obvious, in the open and known by those of us that bothered to read it. These attacks are starting to get pretty damn pathetic. There was/is no conspiracy nor big deals made that have betrayed anyone.

TKHBMVP wrote: From my community experiences in the early 90ies until now on several forums and when usnet newsgroups support forums started remembering from the past, nothing has changed so far with the participants and their communication habbits ;-) It is still the same.
But when I read across all of this thread I'm happy that a lot of people making up their mind on this topic and thinking about the different point of views of the involved people.
Finally this proved that Nexus has a great audience and value modders and members sharing a most valuable content.

Psijonica wrote: YaY! You called me stupid twice! HAHAHA ;D The fact that you keep commenting says more than you know. it says that you feel you need to bully me in order to distract people from the real issue whisch is that you are in one hand holding up a protest sign while with the other taking payments from the people you are saying you are protesting against.

I have to laugh at you.But I guess I'm just stupid or maybe that the throngs of people who once used to get mods for free are now much smarter than me now that they will be paying for them eh?

*SIGH* Look at his last words, "That is what I will fight. That is what I will champion against." and tell me that he is not proclaiming himself as the white knight LoL

and to those of you who say he is not making money, please who are you fooling... he is raking it in and he is only here instead of on vacation trying to protect his money.

joeriz9 wrote: Keep it up kiddo, Good way to get yourself banned by not reading anything that has actually been said.

Reaper0021 wrote: Why are you even posting Psijonica? I mean what's the point you're trying to make beyond just annoying the staff? He was transparent about this whole thing to begin with. There is no hidden agenda. It was publicly posted and I read it before it was brought up by a member who found it the same way I did: Just looked and it was there. It wasn't 'hidden' and wasn't an attempt to be deceptive.

locomotive1236 wrote: "YaY! You called me stupid twice! HAHAHA The fact that you keep commenting says more than you know. it says that you feel you need to bully me in order to distract people from the real issue whisch is that you are in one hand holding up a protest sign while with the other taking payments from the people you are saying you are protesting against.

I have to laugh at you.But I guess I'm just stupid or maybe that the throngs of people who once used to get mods for free are now much smarter than me now that they will be paying for them eh?"

If you consider that bullying, I'm not sure what world you live in. As I understand it from his posts, he's staying neutral at the moment because he understands both sides. I also do not see any point of arguing with someone who is incapable of see things from only one perspective and have such a fragile self-esteem.

MCato wrote: "As you paint yourself as the saviour of the free modding community you are not fooling me"
===
Please show me any of your mods, even the smallest. Then I'll take your words seriously

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica
YaY! You called me stupid twice!

Actually, no he didn't, what you HAVE done though, is shown that twice now, you lack any reading comprehension skills whatsoever, which also explains why you have the whole Valve/Nexus thing so wrong.

Because you read and then interpret everything the way you WANT it to be, rather than the way it actually IS, facts be damned.

SchwererGustav wrote: It's a joke really , anybody with a brain can see were this is going and it is definitely not going to be good for modders who do it for the love of modding and not for the shekkels.

The corps and shareholders will love this news, alot of people (with alot of money) will make a quick buck and leave the modding community in the dirt.

But who are we to judge we don't have a shitload of servers that the community payd for...

Reaper0021 wrote: Had is right. Your a stone-headed kid that's got a conspiracy theory to play with and I'll be damned if your immature ass isn't going to play with it. You just refuse to read and comprehend what's written or you see ulterior motives abounding in everything people say and do.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hope I don't regret bringing this point up. We are entitled to opinions are we not? And we are allowed to doubt what people say at face value, are we not? That is part of a community and it does not help to throw insults at one another, even if it's understandable as we all have a lot of passion about modding.

gingersnapples wrote: you sir are a clever troll, or wear lead-lined hats on a daily basis. can't decide which.

oh well. time ever flows onward, and this, too, shall pass.

ZeroKing wrote: Yeah! Community effort, guys! We get stuff for free, we'll give no support for the effort here, and we demand retribution for what the site owner believes in because he has to pay for the servers..... oh wait.

I forgot about the $500,000 annual server cost that most of us contribute next to nothing for. Yeah, reality sucks, eh?

Reaper0021 wrote: Yes your opinions are indeed welcome. This person isn't stating an "Opinion" this person has taken facts, mixed them up into his/her own little theory, and is attacking Dark0ne. Best if you don't get involved in it as you too seem to not know whats going on either. ****I'm giving you Kudos Zero cause I haven't seen you in so long.

Psijonica wrote: No reaper he has not been honest at all. When explain your self and leave out certain elements then that is being dishonest.

Let's face it, the reason he is saying is is neutral is because he is afraid to actually state his position. Wishy washy... and because I have an opposite opinion of how he has handled this now everybody trolls me. LoL Like I care. I own my house (paid for) and have a wife who loves me and 3 children that I feed and clothe and I am here with my eldest fighting for what I believe is right.

I believer he has lied, I believe he is not being honest and I don't trust his so called good intentions.

I can not believe for the life of me what is happening and you know what, if this goes through then this whole generation deserves SOPA and all the other corporations to come in take over the internet.

Of course I say that with tongue in cheek but I have been fighting the machine my whole life and I am getting tired... this really makes me not want to care any more and just let the children work it out themselves.

Pay-for-mods is the absolute worst thing that can happen and it is pretty much a done deal.

If Dark0ne want to be the Champion then let him refund all the money he gets from valve directly to the moddders. Lets see if he does that eh?

ZeroKing wrote: PhD in biomedical engineering, have a wife and 6 children. Disabled from the waist down, and still work across 17 countries annually.

Doesn't pay Robin's server bills with my personal morals and my credentials, does it?

Reaper0021 wrote: "Pay for mods" is a bad idea. I'm 44, own 4 houses (live in one rent the others 3 small houses to help my disability) and have 1 child...no wife. And? The make-up of my family or my residence doesn't validate my words any more than it does yours. He isn't betraying us. It was always there to see...I know I read it. I'm sorry this has all happened to turn this community on it's damned head. I've seen you posting in forums before and you are one smart guy. You really are. I've enjoyed your input in the past and it's hard for me to see you being this willfully stubborn.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Ha, thank you... I think :/ I have never considered myself a troll (only learnt what it was a couple of year ago...) being a bit of old fashioned.

I just think it can be unwise to just use the arguement that "it's just the way it is". But I also think there can be constructive ways to talk about this. As in trying to organise a way of reducing this "slippery slope" that has been mentioned a number of times. And I wanted to suggest that getting hissy with each other is not going to help... perhaps that what was predicted to happen??

benjaminpen wrote: Are you drunk? No, seriously... Are you? You seem a little incoherent to me.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see no conflict between the following two statements:
"I WILL NOT fight someone's right to charge for mods on ANOTHER site. It is NOT okay to charge for mods on THIS site."
"I WILL fight anyone who says I don't have the right to NOT CHARGE for mods on MY site."

And no, I don't think that mod authors being able to donate some of the money being made to the Nexus is a conflict either.

edit: He didn't get the money from the modders' cut, he got it from Valve's cut.

Reaper0021 wrote: Your right Sunshine maybe that's what I needed to calm down was an impartial 3rd to say something. Yeah I'm going to let this rest for now. Try again tomorrow I think. Peace to you all and Kudos to Sunshinenbrick.

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica

I own my house (paid for) and have a wife who loves me and 3 children that I feed and clothe and I am here with my eldest fighting for what I believe is right.

Yet here you are, complaining about seeing advertisements on your FREE account.
If you actually HAD all of that stuff, and were mature, you wouldn't need to list ANY of that, as it has NOTHING to do with your conspiracy theory.

Psijonica
If Dark0ne want to be the Champion then let him refund all the money he gets from valve directly to the moddders. Lets see if he does that eh?

Hey, let's see you contribute to the $500,000 annual upkeep for the nexus THAT YOU USE FOR FREE.
You're using a website for FREE and demanding that someone else PAY for something that has already been explained, that all of us adults were able to comprehend quite clearly on our first read-through of Robin's article.
At this point, I can only chalk up your incomprehension of Robin's explanation as, you're either Drunk, or you're now too emotionally invested in this to save face and back out out gracefully by apologizing.

At this point, you're in a hole so deep, and refuse to see it, that if someone threw you a ladder, you'd start digging with it.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Thanks :D Yeah I really hope that dialogues between parties can be kept open so that they can mutually benefit each other. I know that sounds a bit soppy but I suppose (more movie taglines coming up) we do need to have some hope here... not easy I know but its that or dispair!

Psijonica wrote: Well reaper for one I'm female but in the world we live in everything is fairly androgynous eh?

i am not being stubborn, I am standing up for what I believe in. There is a difference. Dark0ne benefits from Pay-for-Mods. Either way it doesn't hurt him. Right now we are downloading every mod we can because I know that all the mods for Oblivion will soon be pay- for -mod, all the Morrowind mods will be Pay-for-mod...


THIS USED TO BE FREE AND FUN!!!! It will never be fun again, it will just become an expense. Now all these modders are going to cry about SOPA??? hahahaha You deserve SOPA now!

monkeyweather wrote: Thanks for keeping this whole thing civil to the best of your abilities, and for keeping everyone in the loop as much as you can.

SchwererGustav wrote: well i helped people to get their modded skyrim to run for 2 month in the forum after that i thought i payed back what i downloaded here.

and this is the only website i had my addblocker off, too(you know how every other site makes money).

I'm not rich and Psijonica isn't eather i guess so we take that little fun we have left in our lives,
freedom, creativity and helping other people thats what i thought was this side about, but now they sell out and take that last piece of choice that makes us burst out in anger.. can't you people understand this?

This deal will mark the beginning of the end off modding, the last bastion of freedom that was left...

Pestilenz wrote: Yeah the community paid for the servers, by either choosing to get premium either because they had money to spare, wanted to help or wanted the extra features or by "gob beware" using the site and downloading mods, I feel so abused shame one you Dark0ne.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I totally understand what you mean by paying for things through other means than money (creativity, support, non-financial contribution) however I do hope that sometimes it is best to take down things you don't agree with from within. This is to say that although I cannot speak for the site owner nor do I know, or ever talked to him, but he has stated his position and we should try give him some benefit of the doubt because there are things that can be safeguarded against.

Suppose time will tell but it is somewhat comforting to know that the players at hand here do see the value of the community here. Admittedly it might be money orientated, however we can have the chance to show them there is more to modding than that. Then maybe they will see that suffocating all aspects of the free community will stifle creativity. I hope. And we can start by using donation systems. But that's money I hear you say??? Yes but it is important HOW you give money and WHO you give it to.

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica
Well reaper for one I'm female but in the world we live in everything is fairly androgynous eh?

I'm glad that you and your wife, and two kids, and your paid for house are happy.

Psijonica
Dark0ne benefits from Pay-for-Mods

HE ONLY BENEFITS.......ONLY, if someone CHECKS THE BOX that says "Send 5% of the earning for this mod to the Nexus", there are also checkboxes to send 5% to the makers of NifSKope and Blender as well.
Why aren't you complaining about those two things possibly getting 5% whenever someone checks the box for them to receive 5% of the income?

If a modder DOESN'T check that box for The NEXUS, or NifSkope etc then the Nexus and NifSkope etc get NOTHING, ZERO, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA, NOTHING, is sent to the Nexus, NOTHING....
Do you UNDERSTAND IT YET?

The Nexus isn't getting a cut of any mods being sold on SteamWorks UNLESS THE MOD AUTHOR CHECKS THE BOX to let the Nexus have 5% of the sales as a "Thank You"

Psijonica
THIS USED TO BE FREE AND FUN!!!! It will never be fun again, it will just become an expense.

It's still "Free and Fun" (especially for YOU Ms. "Free Nexus Account" ), however, you're directing your anger at the wrong person

Tanniss wrote: actually he is getting money from the community unless he is independantly wealthy or paying his creditors with air he gets his money from ad's that we help support by not having ad block on and by the memberships that people pay for as well as donations from the community

Tanniss wrote: which can and will be used later on down the road to take away any credibility on darkones part if he decides to stop fence sitting and pick the side of being afraid free modding is going to disappear by saying hey why you bitching now when you had no problem taking donations from our (valves ) cut instead of the modders giving a cut to nexus for this site being such a great place to find tools and free mods

I am surprised that no one sees this because its buying him even if he or us dont think so because at the end of the day if you take money from those who are trying to take and run a monopoly no matter the small % given you are still silently supporting the endeavor they are trying to force down everyone elses throat

and mind you im not being a troll nor am i stupid and if some feel the need to toss insults towards me so be it bottom line is when you take money for something that you think is more than likely going to be inherently wrong that makes your arguments a little less weighty

Psijonica wrote: HadToRegister

Yes my wife and I are very happy. It is well known that I am a lesbian. I have never hid from that here or anywhere. Do you have something against the gay and lesbian community?

You keep on trying to goat me with your pathetic attempts in arguing with me but I have been ignoring you. You are a troll and your continued attempts into drawing me into a flame war will fail.

You failed :)

Reaper0021 wrote: See you made a good point and did it in such a way that doesn't speak of "Conspiracy Theories" running rampant. No your not stupid at all and you do make good points. The 'other' person on this thread is on an obvious witch hunt. Big difference. I shouldn't have to point that out to you.

Psijonica wrote: Thanks monkeyweather, it has not been easy to keep things civil especially when the owner of the site comes and trolls my post effectively giving permission for everybody else to do the same. Shame on him for that.

I read all his posts and his reddits and although he tries to pretend to pin Gabe down on the DRM issue he himself doesn't even make public his own position on Pay-for-Mods.

This is why I don't trust him. I deal with politicians for a living, I am well tuned to the BS station.

Reaper0021 wrote: NOBODY cares you are a Lesbian with a chip on her shoulder. Nobody cares about your sexual orientation. Period. None of us. Nobody has said anything except, after you felt the need to back-up your arguments with telling us how you own a home and your kids are responsible and your married and whatnot, all anybody has said was "Good for you and hope your happy. And my religious beliefs fly contrary to your chosen lifestyle...but do you hear me saying anything? No. Good. Nobody is going to be baited into a "Gay and Lesbian" tirade debate with you so you have yet even MORE to gripe about along with what you're already doing.

phantompally76 wrote: you're, not your.

Reaper0021 wrote: you're, not your.


It's late and i don't care. The point is made but ty anyway.

Kusumura wrote:

I don't think Psijonica "looks stupid" at all, Dark0ne.

Quite the opposite, actually.

And I also think that YOU are coming out of this looking dishonest, petty, unapologetic, and at the risk of upsetting you (which is not my intention), just a little sociopathic.

You can't shrug or laugh this off. This is a MUCH bigger deal than you're trying to make it out to be, and just because you refuse to admit there is a problem with your lack of disclosure and transparancy....that doesn't make the problem go away.

And like it or not, a LOT of people have a problem with this.
- From phantompally76

Oh, God. Please, let's not have this become #skyrimgate2015...

EDIT: Fixed up the quote.

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica
Yes my wife and I are very happy. It is well known that I am a lesbian. I have never hid from that here or anywhere. Do you have something against the gay and lesbian community?

No problem at all, I have gay and lesbian friends, and, as I said in my post.
[i'm glad that you and your wife, and two kids, and your paid for house are happy.]

Now, you've definitely got some MAJOR reading comprehension problems if you are somehow getting that I have a problem with the LGBT community with my comment.

At this point, I'll just chalk it up to you either have some type of reading comprehension problem, or are just belligerent and looking to fight about EVERYTHING.

Anyway, I'm completely fed up with you, because you aren't even participating in the discussion anymore, and instead are acting like a belligerent party-goer who has had a few too many drinks, and wants to try and turn EVERYTHING into a fight

Rullnick wrote: Your mistake is thinking that he can only be on ONE side of the issue, Either he's FOR paid mods or He's AGAINST them. When in reality he's neither, he's neutral because the paid mods aren't the deciding thing here.

He said he isn't a champion white-knight for free mods, and he said he isn't a money-hungry demon from hell. He just wants mods to be free and open when the mod creators want them to be. Why are you so goddamn narrow-sighted? If you read the post you would see you're exactly the kind of people he is talking about.

By the way, people disagreeing with you isn't "trolling". It's just you being unable to take f*#@ing criticism.

Reaper0021 wrote: I agree the whole "Lesbian" thing is this.....person just trying to bait us into a fight and make it look as if we have issues with her ilk. Don't be fooled into any type of debate. I'm going to go play some Attila at any rate online, so peace to you all. I'm done with this nightmare of a woman and her continued inability to basically 'comprehend' that which has been made clear time and time again.

RaskorGaming wrote: "Endorsements given: 279"

Oh, really?

iloveyoupurples wrote: Everyone has an opinion, here's mine. I agree with you about half way. The mod users, get the fair deal. We get free mods. We have a place to get them, a place to install them. A place to discuss it. I take issue on behalf of the authors. Nexus is a business. Nexus is owned by a person. Said person makes a nice bloated salary. Such is business. As a consumer I'm getting the best deal period. Free mods. We come here to get mods. We view adds. We pay for premium accounts so it doesn't take 30 years to download a mod. No big deal. These mod authors make mods. Robin makes a tidy profit because we come to get them. Mod authors are given nothing. Robin pays for xyz. Cool. Robin makes a bloated profit from the investment. Mod authors get nothing. We don't come to view the adds. Or add to his cooperate portfolio. We come for mods. He gets paid because of it. Mod authors get nothing. Blah blah blah he pays xyz. Cool. Is it suddenly non profit? I had no issue knowing all this before valve decided to sell mods off the backs of their authors. I take issue now because it's hypocritical for him to say anything considering we come here for free mods WHILE MOD AUTHORS GET NOTHING. Then raise the banner of MODZFREEFROEVARRRR etc. If I were you I'd have kept my mouth shut on my opinion. It's hypocritical. You profit off the mod authors just like valve is trying to. So I agree with Psijonica to a degree. Yeah, you made a good business decision making a website and shored up a tidy residual sum for yourself. Problem I have is you wave a flag as if you're non profit. Mod authors are getting shafted. Period. I wish I could afford to donate to every mod I use, sadly I can't. Still From now on, when I have an extra dollar on my meager salary I'm buying a good author a coffee. Sorry authors I should have decided to donate sooner.

Psijonica wrote:
75 mods have been hidden on the Nexus because the mod makers are scared that people are going to steal their assets, some people are talking about taking down any tips they've given out because people are going to steal them to make a profit. We're already seeing the lose part of the paywall when the community closed down and people are too paranoid to share their resources. We've already seen assets being stolen, lazy and unfinished mods being sold and one person putting out a free version with an annoying pop up.

The shadowscale armor is one item, clips with numerous races, you have to use the console to get it.
Chesko and Isoku used assets they had no right to use when they sold their mods and are now getting DMCA'd
Midas Magic put a annoying pop-up on the free version for a paid version that isn't anymore polished or improved.

Right now, literally this thread, is a example of the community getting split and damaged. Everyone is losing besides Valve and Bethesda, no one in this thread is winning under the current model.

@ HadToRegister
if you continue to pester me I will just have to report you. I am not even talking to you or even paying attention to what you are writing. Please leave me alone.

@ Reaper0021
i am not sure what your problem is. One post you are saying I am smart and the next you are accusing me of trying to bait you into an argument. Take it easy, you seem to be losing control of your self. if you are actually getting upset then the problem lies between your own ears. You posted that you were and adult in your 40's? No way. People in their 40's don't act like this. At this point you give me reason to ask that you please, please just leave me be. Ty.

No Endorsements, No Permissions, No Donations. 100% free mods 4-ever.

"The spirit of modding is sharing. In order to grow in quality rather than in quantity, modding has to be a labour of love, not a labour for money." - Emma

Reaper0021 wrote: iloveyoupurples now this is how you make a point. This post right here.

Reaper0021 wrote: In your past posts....you have been great. I said that and asked you "Why" you're all over the place right now/tonight? DON'T try to blame me for your woes or act as if I'm doing you harm. You've done that all on your own tonight. You deliberately played your "Lesbian" card in such a manner as to warrant caution cause you seem to be looking for a fight. You deliberately attempted to bait HadToRegister into a "do you have something against Lesbian/Gay's" argument. All here can see it and all here have said as much (about how you've maybe bee ndrinking tonight cause you say one thing then contradict yourself saying another without ANY thought of what you're saying".

Psijonica wrote: Ya so what. Leave me alone. I was just giving him a little taste of his own medicine.

What does that have to do with you? Right! Nothing. Now go pester someone else. You want to pay for mods, go ahead. I don't care about you. You are not even a modder. I have released mods, only one here but I have mods on other forums. so I am asking you politely...; if you are the adult that you claim then please respect my wishes and stop already. I am not talking to you any more. If you are the adult you claim to be then please act like it now.

Reaper0021 wrote: Yep far more of it than you. Sure it's stopped no sweat lay off of myself and HadToRegister. For GOOD.

Psijonica wrote: @ iloveyoupurples

You see, that is how this whole issue started. Donations is the problem. Once Bethesda saw that people were making many off of their product that had no choice but to protect themselves.

They gave us the CS (construction set) for free and allowed and trusted us to mod as a hobby. But we abused that trust and turned it into a business. And so now Big Daddy Bethesda is coming and punishing us by saying , "you want to sell your mods, fine. But now we control everything and we want our cut."

Greedy modders. You deserve this. I hope they steal your mods and take everything. Because of this the entire community spirit has be poisoned.

No Endorsements, No Permissions, No Donations. 100% free mods 4-ever.

"The spirit of modding is sharing. In order to grow in quality rather than in quantity, modding has to be a labour of love, not a labour for money." - Emma

hector530 wrote: you keep trying VERY hard to play the victim. "Dark0ne is trolling me!!!!" "im being bullied"

"i am not being stubborn, I am standing up for what I believe in."

yes you are, you will believe what you believe in no matter what is said and shown against it. the true beauty of a conspiracy theorist is that proof against the conspiracy is only proof of a conspiracy.

Wolvenlight wrote: @Psijonica

To be honest, I was never for the Grey Manes or the Battle Borns. I was never for the Imperials or the Stormcloaks. If Skyrim taught me anything, it's that people who tell you that you absolutely have to pick a side are wrong, and will bore you to death. In that order.

So when Dark0ne says he's neutral, I believe him. I've read his posts, he's never come out against pay4mods, he's only expressed concern about potential issues that could arise from them. He is not taking any modders cuts, and he's not forcing anyone to pay for him, he's merely opted into a voluntary system to help improve the site. If such a time comes when he decides to start charging for access to this site, or allowing mods to make their mods pay for only, then you will have evidence for your claims.

Claims you have made a lot of. You say he wants to be a champion for free mods, but he never claimed that. You state he's angry he didn't get a bigger cut of Valve's profits, but you have no evidence for this claim. You claim he is a troll merely because he pointed out an illogical inconsistency in your argument (in a minor, kind of sort of rude way, which I get and see it as the mistake it was, if only because you'd continue bringing it up.) You claim other people are trolling you when they merely disagree with you. You claim to have fought for this site and free modding, yet you aren't a contributor (neither am I, but I understand this place wouldn't be here without them.) You even claim to be standing up for what you believe in.

There is a difference between standing up for your beliefs and flinging accusations about without proper evidence. You want to question his motives? That's fine, I question the funds of scientific studies all the time, but I always read the study, take in the evidence, and mull it over to see if their are any actual flaws before accusing the study of being a shill for a corporate interest. Forgive me for saying so, but you sound like a religious doomsayer the way you talk. Or like you're a conservative who really hates anything to do with democrats.

If you apply the same argument to yourself as you have to others, then you have called people debating actual points with you "pathetic," just like the guy who "called you stupid." There is nothing troll about people merely disagreeing with you in the same tone you have disagreed with others. If you want to be taken seriously, then debate facts in a clear, respectful manner. If not, have fun with your free nexus account.

While it lasts. Or something.

x9fallen wrote: "This used to be free and fun". And what contributions have you made to the modding community?

Also, it was never free. Hosting files and allowing traffic to and from has a very real cost associated with it. If you don't like the price you have to pay (seeing an ad or two or seeing an option to go premium), don't pay it. See if you can find a community that allows file hosting/download with no cost that you can contribute nothing to. There isn't one. Which is why you'll stay here and continue to whine.

You've offered nothing of substance to the discussion. Your main complaints are that, although facts have been laid out, the author is still trying to deceive the community. You've also inferred the author has called you stupid twice, which is objectively false.

Reaper0021 wrote: Kudos given to Hector, Wolvenlight and x9fallen.

WightMage wrote: I'm totally quoting you on that. xP

iloveyoupurples wrote: <3 happy to help. I have always seen that as the glaring elephant in the room.

phantompally76 wrote: "And what contributions have you made to the modding community?"

THOUSANDS of hours of testing player mods, helping authors flesh out bugs, glitches, issues and incompatibilities. Offering suggestions to enhance and improve those mods. Discussing those mods with others, spreading knowledge about said mods to other users who may have otherwise never installed/endorsed them. Offering praise and encouragement (and endorsements) to mod authors who might have otherwise given up, and defending mod authors against self-entitled millenials on here who expect them to do whatever they want, when they want.

THAT is my contribution to this community. And whether I have donated one red cent to a single mod author or not, THAT makes me every bit as much a member of the modding community as you. So don't try to lord your premium membership over me or anyone else on here. We are equals.

And I bet that just burns you up...

Ramon1 wrote: While I don't put Dark0ne's words in doubt that all the proceedings will go directly into the Nexus, no matter how anybody tries to paint it, it's not going to sit well in a lot of people that Nexus is receiving money from Valve, which at this point, somehow has managed to turned itself overnight into something worse than all the EAs and UBIs of the world.

And the thing is, if you see beyond the face value of the Nexus receiving money from Valve, you will see a huge chunk of the same bile Valve has managed to inject the modding community, and the PC gaming community, with. They did it good, they struck where it mattered and regardless of monetary transactions, it's highly probably modding will never be the same, just remember how well Mr. Gabe managed to avoid Dark0ne's invitation to take an stance against eventually limiting modding to the workshop.

They are in for the greed of it and once they taste the goods, the easy money they are going to earn at the expense of modders, they won't stop until modders become official DLC and bugfixes contractors.

How the heck we came to witness stEAm basically attempting to ruin PC gaming forever, that is beyond me.

Psijonica wrote: Oh don't bother, that guy xfallen has no friends, no pics, no mods. I have plenty of mods out there on other sites and I have one small mod I made for a friend here. I have worked on many mods large and small I I have enjoyed myself over the years. ***I have made lots of friends over the years some of whom actually became real life friends so it is all good here.***

xfallen and reapper (who can'r stop talking about me on every other post LoL while he claims to be in his 30's and owns a house with childre hahaha) the truth is that these trolls are children because I don't know any adults who would behave like this.

Am I 100% right in everything I posted? No. Have I made some assumptions that are wrong? Yes, but overall I stand by my overall position.

Is Dark0ne supporting pay-for-mods, I think he does, will the nexus stay free, I think it will, is he playing both sides of the coin I think that is obvious.

I am actually giving up on this fight. I loved the modding community and it has given me lots of pleasure but I am leaving it for the same reason Wrye left modding. I am not comparing myself to Wrye but I knew him back in the day.

I think everyone should pay for mods. I hope it becomes the norm and that people become successful. I hope Dark0ne makes a lot of money from Valve. I can see SOPA passing into law within the next 5-10 years. I am done fighting. I give up. I don't care any more.

janishewski wrote: It's going to a pay system. You can accept that and move on, or not. Nobody cares. And if you pirate pay mods, I hope you are prosecuted.

Psijonica wrote: WTF???
Is something wrong with you? Did you take you medication tonight?

No one has ever mentioned anything about pirating mods in this post. Where do you get off on making wild accusation like that. Why would you wish such a horrible thing to someone?

Should I hope you rob a bank and get arrested?

*sigh*

x9fallen wrote: @ phantompally76 Well, I wasn't replying to you. It sounds like you have made significant contributions to the modding community. Also, I fully acknowledge my premium is nothing in terms of contributing to the community. Hell, I fully admit I don't contribute much to the modding community at present. I certainly wouldn't "lord" anything over someone. My inquiry was regarding Psjonica's contribution to the modding community as the statement saying "used to be fun and free" implies that they are a contributor.

I look at it this way: if I'm consuming content more than I am contributing to content, I am not in a position to complain and rant about the content.

digitaltrucker wrote: I disagree, without people to use the mods there would be no reason to form a community around the mods. A mod user is every bit an important part of the community as a mod author. Neither side is more or less entitled than the other.

Psijonica wrote: I have nothing to prove to YOU. Who are you? I need to answer to you? LoL You are nothing to me. You mean absolutely nothing to me so I don't have to prove anything to you.

I have friends here. I have worked and helped people make their mods mods and I have released mods all over the internet. Who cares. I am a person. I AM A PERSON! Just like you.

What have you done? Oh right... nothing. Unbelievable that you sit there and judge me... should I do the same to you now?

Just is just silly...

x9fallen wrote: Psijonica, you seem to be the one acting childish in this thread. Your angry and you're ranting on like an angst-filled teen. Yes, I'm not very active on the forums and haven't done any modding, that is part of the reason I'm not shouting at Nexus staff or modders who want to be paid for their work.

You, as someone who seems to only be able to shout, should be required to prove your contributions if you're going to shout. I don't believe you're able to speak on behalf of the modders as you seem to be trying to do.

Also, I can't believe your stance on no donations is a popular one amongst modders. I believe they'll take a stand against pay-for-mods but I find it hard to imagine that they would stand against optional donations. That seems silly

Psijonica wrote: I don't care what you believe.

JetBoom21 wrote: Dude come on Psijonica, you sound like a someone who can't get over people calling him stupid online, what's up with the way you type, it looks like you're a old man stuck in a child mind.

x9fallen wrote: You'd have to ask the author of Interesting NPCs or Chesko about my contributions. I won't do that here.

derek6688 wrote: Just let her win.

Aegrus wrote: She's female, and she's been accusing people of being sexist or anti LGBT all day for getting that wrong.

yvonneka wrote: Well for the sake of transparency, has Dark0ne released the stats on how many premium member Nexus has? If the site requires 500K of revenue to run, and the site is still running, then I'm guessing that Dark0ne is bringing in AT LEAST 500K per year and probably more.

Dark0ne says that only 75 mods have gone in the last 2 days and Nexus still has over 40K mods on the site. However, if the mods can only be on Steam exclusively, whilst charging for the mod, and if Nexus is credited 5% of the mod's price only if the mod is "monetized", then it serves in Darkones interest to have all the mods leave Nexus and be monetized on Workshop.

We have 40K mods remaining as free, but what will happen by next year, 30K? And the year after that, 20K? Eventually, all mods will move to a monetized system on Steam, whist Dark0ne is receiving 5% of 40K mod revenues, all the while, having no reason to host this site anymore, as all the mods have gone. THAT'S a Plus and a Plus. Time to retire on an island and drink margaritas, right Dark0ne? I don't blame you....my greed would probably take me in the same direction.

ShadePT wrote: @yvonneka

He only gets a up to 5% IF a modder says he should.

It wouldn't benefit him to have all mods go to the Workshop as he wouldn't have a community anymore, and hence would probably be removed by Valve themselves.
It would definately benefit him to have 100's of high quality mods for sale while he hosts all the free ones here, maybe even no longer having to use ads or using the extra revenue to spend on further improvements on the website.

@Quite a few people

Learn to read. I have no idea if it this is due to English being a second language but quite a few people seem to have not understood what was said.

zanity wrote: Wow- Nexus must make a profit- who would have guessed? I thought magic fairies or unpaid umpa-lumpas created this site, maintained it, and provided the servers and bandwidth for free.

Good lord, we may 'hate' the means by which a popular website is forced to support itself, but let's try to be grown-ups about it. If Nexus couldn't find a way to pay, it would not exist- is that what any of you here want?

phantompally76 wrote: Also, out of those 40k mods, 98% (or arguably more) of them no longer work, or are no longer supported, or are just plain bad mods. The pool of player mods that people actually download and use is very small, comparatively speaking. We've lost around 60 such mods so far to Steam Paymods, over 70 mods have been either removed or hidden on nexus out of protest or fear of theft, it's possible that one of the most popular and used Skyrim mods ever has just permanently become abandonware, and mod users (definitely in the hundreds, more likely in the thousands) are boycotting all mods by sellout authors in protest (myself included; I've uninstalled and unendorsed nearly 2 dozen of the mods I've been using for years in order to avoid hypocrisy).

I'm no astrologer, so I can't predict any kind of long-term outcomes. But short-term, this crap is taking a HUGE toll on the modding community. I know all the optimists out there will assert that we'll recover and life goes on, but I don't think anyone can dispute that moving forward, there's no way things can or will be the same.

mALX1 wrote:
Okay, you have really ceased to make sense here. You obviously have no idea whatsoever the depth of what has occurred here, and all the false principles you are basing your stance on boils down to you don't want anything to cost you anything.

Nexus has been shelling out millions of dollars for decades for us and asked for nothing back unless we wanted to offer it.

I have been on numerous sites, and the Premium membership on this site is the lowest I've found anywhere other than Chorrol, who refuses any donations, but doesn't offer any bandwidth either.

You have no idea how ridiculous it sounds to say they shouldn't have allowed themselves to be listed as a Service Provider. They ARE a service provider, and you have been soaking that up for free from what I can see.

This is business, not a playground. They have to protect us and this site, and they are doing it in the best way possible.

Smart people don't cut their own noses off just to spite their face; you are doing it and expecting the management here to act like you - they won't. They have a business to run if they want to keep providing all of us and you this free site to host our mods on.

lobo3222 wrote: threads getting a little bit long maybe start a new thread...or is it only this opinion you want people to see and not anyone else ?

It costs the site a lot of money when you download mods; that bandwidth is hugely expensive. Members downloading mods and not helping support the site are why there has to be advertisers, to pay for what you are not helping with, to pay for those downloads you made for free.

This site - they never ask for anything back; this community continues to open their welcome to you warmly, even the administration who is paying your way for you.

Of course they take what is freely offered to them, it would make no sense to cut ties with Bethesda at this point, which is what you are telling them they should have done.

Your principles would be a lot more believable if you showed enough concern for this site to help it out and support it yourself.

So you and the girl Psijonica that claimed to have a wife and three children when she is acting thirteen - you both should really should think before you come attacking the management for keeping in business dealings with Bethesda when that is their largest client.

Instead you both should be thanking them for giving you a place you can come and download awesome mods for free.

[troggleballs]

The mods we have been enjoying so far and thousands upon thousands more still work. It's a bummer some of them have turned into mosh (mod+dosh, ain't I clever) but we can still use the version we have. And hell, if you are angry that wet & cold's 2.0 got a price tag, why not make a mod that does the exact same thing, but better? Nobody prevents you from doing that.

 

And since steam greenlight and early access is full of dung, so will the paid mods as you cannot critique them without buying them. As strange as it would look from an outsider's persperctive, free mods is still were quality is at, and always will be.

 

As long as they are allowed to exist, that is. Like Dark0ne, I fear the day when modding must be approved by the developers. Modding keep games alive, and sadly in the future it might be like charging a coma patient for life support.

[Saerileth]

In response to post #24645544. #24646089, #24649659, #24649709, #24651129, #24651814, #24653749, #24654389, #24662464, #24667379, #24667414, #24667559 are all replies on the same post.

jmeks23 wrote:

PharCry wrote: "HOWEVER, I don't think that means compensation is deserved. Not to say you shouldn't be able to donate to these creators and what not, but I just don't feel like I should be forced to pay for any type of mod."

So they can't ask for money, for something they created, put their own hard work into? They absolutely must allow everyone to have it for free if they have shared it with the community? For something they've poured tens, hundreds or more hours into? Testing with other users, gathering feedback and data, troubleshooting, etc? All the while doing their day job and or whatever else they may have to contend with in regards to life?

"The thing about mods is you can have up to 200+ running at a time, and most people here probably play with somewhere between 25-100. Imagine even paying $.99 for 100 mods? And most mods I'm seeing on the workshop are charging more than $.99. Why would I ever do that?"

They're not making it a requirement to charge money for mods! Too many people are used to the idea of just having mods for free. This introduces a way that content creators can actually make a little money for what they are doing (hell maybe consider downloading Blender and NifSkope and the Creation Kit, learning how they work and making your own mods? WOW WHAT A CONCEPT). Why is this a bad thing?

I'm not saying it again after this: IMO Valve needs to reconsider how much they are taking as a cut from mod makers, but the mod makers do deserve some compensation IF THEY DEEM IT NECESSARY. We can pay for it if we like it (there is a 24 hour policy, probably should be 48 but again, something that needs dealt with on Valve's end, and something WE as a community can respond to). Stop crying about this, give input as it evolves, and stop acting like this only benefits Valve and Nexus!

locomotive1236 wrote: Our of curiosity, do some of the tools used to make mods, such as blender, nifskope, photoshop, have a disclaimer saying that not to be used for commercial products? If you do you have to buy a licensed one for a prolonged period? I know most don't really care if you use it for personal stuff, but once it's out in the market they have rights to the products too?

sunshinenbrick wrote: Very important point made above!

Saerileth wrote: It's interesting how most of these detailed explanations of "what modding is all about" come from people who have not uploaded a single mod of their own. How can you judge the "right" reasons to mod, and who should (or shouldn't) be modding in the first place? I'm a mod author myself, and I still don't presume to know the motivations of all the others. I can only speak for myself.

locomotive1236 wrote: @Saerileth, I speak for no other as well. I do not have the skill or want to mod SKyrim because there's already so many mods out there available that do the same thing that I desired. And you're fairly limiting modding to only Skyrim and not looking at the big picture. There are other games with mods as well and this is one of those platform that supports modding community. I've made some popular and some not so-popular mods/addons in the past for some games I don't care to mention. I have also create stuff for myself that share to my friends.

I feel that your attack on those that haven't put up a mod and have no say is unwarranted. Most that do not have a mod participated in one way or another with the creation or perfection of some mods, whether by inputs or feedbacks. To say they have no right to to say what modding is about for themselves is a little shortsighted, no?

If I have mistaken your point then I apologize, but modding community is not just about the authors who has hosted at least 1 mod. This is not to be taken as the authors don't deserve any praise, as they should definitely be. All I'm saying is the "beta testing" helps the modding community more than anything.

Tanniss wrote: actually you are correct in most instances they have two versions of a product one for personal use (which is usually free) to wit you arent allowed to use those for commercial gain and then they have the professional produce (which you have to buy to use ) which even then still only has a limited commercial availability usage of
Not to mention the use of copyrighted material which is in alot of mods that is a no no and will end up getting dmac'd out the ass

My issue with this is simple dark one calls it cutting his nose off to spite his face which if he was all for paid modding would make sense but your stand point is such that you fear that free modding and the COMMUNITIES that support such endeavors will go the way of the do do. That you allow yourself to be construed as a supporter of said paid practices when whether you choose to admit to yourself or not you are a champion for freed modding why would you send such a mixed signal because whether you believe it or not you are by no means being neutral being neutral means you have no opinion one way or the other...
when in fact you are taking money from valve's cut (which if you were to send to the top modders on here as a donation to help keep them modding for free would be giving only one clear signal) while also saying you fear that this will cause free modding to go away seems to be giving out confused and mixed signals...
I do not have any doubts that you take valves money thinking to do good with it but we all know valve is only doing this to take your legs and your integrity from you when they decide to come out with harsher rules for the modders to upload to them if you make waves they will just use the "You were not opposed to this course of action before as you gladly accepted our money stance" i love the nexus and in many many forums today i have posted that the alternative to this valve fiasco is to come here that being said being neutral means not doing anything to promote a sense of side taking and sorry taking money from valve while stating that you are afraid the way this will go could make our home for everything modding go away is taking both sides

Saerileth wrote: I did not attack anyone! I merely made an observation. You cannot deny that the most resounding and outspoken response to this topic comes from the users, and not the mod authors of this community. And I'm having a hard time believing that not at least part of the outrage come right down to "I don't want to have to pay for all these lovely mods that I'm used to have for free". And I can totally understand that sentiment! Knowing that some of my favourite mods will no longer be freely available to me makes me sad, because lets face it no one enjoys giving away money. I'm just getting very tired of seeing people talk up this grand cause of how they don't support paid mods out of principle, when it is usually simply that they do not want to pay for them. Call things by what they are.

No one has the right to define what "modding is all about", that is something each member of the community has to decide for him/herself (much as no one can claim to objectively define what is "art" and what is not, to give you a better example of what I mean). You can't set down "right" or "wrong" reasons for sharing mods, that would be looking a gift horse into the mouth. Every author has their own reasons for doing what they do. There are some things that the community as a whole has a say in - this is not one of them.

locomotive1236 wrote: "You cannot deny that the most resounding and outspoken response to this topic comes from the users, and not the mod authors of this community."

I partially agree with this, but it's also because the users outnumbered mod authors by a hefty margin. By simple statistics you will see more posts from users than actual authors. However, if you have scanned around the forums, you will note that some mod authors do voice in their opinions and their stances. Another thing, since emotions are high right now, it is much wiser for many authors to lay low and do not voice their opinions because the mob is doing witch hunt. Unfortunately, they'll look for any excuses to chastise people on the issue.

"I'm just getting very tired of seeing people talk up this grand cause of how they don't support paid mods out of principle, when it is usually simply that they do not want to pay for them. Call things by what they are."

I completely agree with this. Principle is easily swayed and is used to justify a lot of things, bad or good.

Anyways, does anyone have an answer to my previous question about the free programs used to make the mods? I feel that even something simple as photoshop would be able to pull rights on many of these texture mods. Not to sure about the other freewares.

UberSmaug wrote: "You have officially ruined any hopes of you being a reputable Modder... Congratulations you money grabbing c*nt."

Statements like this Is why authors are staying quiet and for good reason. I've even seen stuff about trying to find authors home address in some attempt to threaten bodily harm if you try to sell your mods. I'm gonna play devils advocate here and hopefully put some of the positive aspects of this into perspective.

Saerileth was right in pointing out that he found it odd that people who have contributed nothing tangible to the community are crying betrayal. I too am at a loss on how someone can talk about the sprit of modding when they've never actually done any modding. Modding is not downloading a file. Why do you feel you are entitled some else's work? That's not a community, that's communism.

People have been eating a free lunch and your pissed that the menu may be changing, get real. I've never read the amount of self-entitle BS I've seen in the past few days. "Modders don't deserve to ask for compensation"... Why the hell not? I work really long and hard on my mods, weeks and months and years of my life. Bethesda and Valve don't deserve a cut... Why not? They made the game and provided us the toolkit to begin with. Valve gives us a place to share them. I would have no problem giving Nexus a cut too had they such a service . Would I like a bigger cut. Of course I do something closer to 50% would be great then you wouldn't have to overprice your mod to actually see some real money. Don't forget the G men are gonna want their cut too. But what about the Bethesda employees. What do you think the split is like there. That would be interesting to see the numbers but I guarantee Bethesda is getting the bigger piece, so no surprise there.

"Modding as a profession is wrong..." Why wouldn't I like to get paid to mod. Freelance game artist sounds like a pretty sweet job to me. Hell that's would be my dream job. Work from home, on my own time, no deadline hanging over my head. Only work on the projects I want to work on. I wouldn't even have to wear pants.

Its not greedy to ask fair compensation for your work. Its greedy to ask to get everything for free. And no one is forcing you to buy anything. If you don't think the mod is worth the asking price then don't buy it. If you buy a mod and turns out you don't like it you can get a refund. Hell you can't even sell anything until you get enough endorsements from the community. The only people trying to force anything are the people petitioning to have the paid mods shut down.

That said I don't think free mods should or will go away. Not every mod is worth being paid for. You have no business trying to sell a retexture or port from other games. In fact if your mod is not stand alone, meaning if it requires another mod to work I think it is in poor taste to try and sell it unless you've worked out a deal with the other author. Some of these mods are popular and there will always be a demand for them but should not be sold for profit. Modders need a place to learn and grow and it sounds like the nexus will remain that place. However I think there is room to improve the community by establishing a place where premium mods can be sold. Where fair trade can be established.

It is way too easy for a good mod to get drowned in a sea of crap before it has a chance to be seen. If your mod doesn't make the hot list in the first week your pretty much dead in the water. Very few people make the effort to sift through the garbage to find that lost gem and its a damn shame. Creating a new marketplace where modders that hold themselves to a higher standard of quality can be given their fair shot and be compensated for there hard work is perfectly justified in my opinion. People act like it is a crime to sell mods, I what I find criminal is what counts as a mod these days.

This is not the death of modding. Its a chance to raise the bar. If you are selling a mod it should be finished product with a fair price. Not some half ass junk you whipped up in ten minutes, like idk say a green sword retexture with a dollar sign on it for $99.99. That is something to be outraged about. If we do this right It can be a good thing for everyone. Devs get money, that make them happy, and maybe hopefully even more Devs will give us modding resources and a bigger cut to the modder down the road. Modders get money, that makes them happy. Maybe even enough to quit your day job and be a full time modder, which means more/better mods for you. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.

Please do not be so short sighted on this. No it wont be perfect just yet and some tweaks to the model will inevitably happen. Just don't hate on this and ruin it before we see where it can go. If it fail it fails and things will go back to 100% free. Because while I can't speak for others. Yes I do it because I love to do it, and If I can make money at the same time it makes me want to do it even more. I don't think that makes me a bad person.

SurrealCruelty wrote: @locomotive
If you are using the educational versions of any Adobe product the EULA says you cannot use it for commercial purposes, that would pretty much include paid mods. That also applies to the educational version of 3DSMax, and for that matter with FaceGen and Poser. The professional versions of those programs are explicitly for commercial use.

As for Blender and Nifskope, I think they made their position on the whole thing clear by allowing themselves to be considered "contributors" by Valve. SKSE has pretty much stated on their website that you can use SKSE in mods to make money, but the resource itself will remain free.

I couldn't tell you if GIMP prohibits commercial use or not, but it's probably on their homepage and in any EULA they make you agree to when you download and install.

anonownsyou wrote: The people who don't do the work have absolutely no right to criticize the people who DO, be it their motivations, their reservations, their orientations, animal, vegetable, or mineral.

Adobe can't pull any rights to anything you've made as long as you own a legal license of Photoshop. Where would digital artists be otherwise? This obviously does not extend to pirated versions, but seriously, if you try to sell mods that were made with stolen tools you deserve to be DMCA'd off the face of the planet. This is the same for all professionally available software such as ZBrush, 3DSMax or Maya. I don't know how things are with the free student versions of the last two, you'd have to read their license agreement.

A common misconception about Blender's open source license is that it can only be used for non-commercial products. This is not the case, you retain 100% ownership of anything you create with the software. The same goes for other freeware such as The Gimp.

I can't speak for modding tools such as NifSkope or Tes5Edit. You'd have to carefully read their license agreement and/or talk to the respective developers.

@Edit: SurrealCruelty beat me to it. Good point about the student versions. Edited April 26, 2015 by Saerileth

[Moksha8088]

Will free voice actors, coders and testers be harder to come by for paid modders? Will their work become Steam Workshop property?

[anonownsyou]

In response to post #24645544. #24646089, #24649659, #24649709, #24651129, #24651814, #24653749, #24654389, #24662464, #24667379, #24667414, #24667519 are all replies on the same post.

jmeks23 wrote:

PharCry wrote: "HOWEVER, I don't think that means compensation is deserved. Not to say you shouldn't be able to donate to these creators and what not, but I just don't feel like I should be forced to pay for any type of mod."

So they can't ask for money, for something they created, put their own hard work into? They absolutely must allow everyone to have it for free if they have shared it with the community? For something they've poured tens, hundreds or more hours into? Testing with other users, gathering feedback and data, troubleshooting, etc? All the while doing their day job and or whatever else they may have to contend with in regards to life?

"The thing about mods is you can have up to 200+ running at a time, and most people here probably play with somewhere between 25-100. Imagine even paying $.99 for 100 mods? And most mods I'm seeing on the workshop are charging more than $.99. Why would I ever do that?"

They're not making it a requirement to charge money for mods! Too many people are used to the idea of just having mods for free. This introduces a way that content creators can actually make a little money for what they are doing (hell maybe consider downloading Blender and NifSkope and the Creation Kit, learning how they work and making your own mods? WOW WHAT A CONCEPT). Why is this a bad thing?

I'm not saying it again after this: IMO Valve needs to reconsider how much they are taking as a cut from mod makers, but the mod makers do deserve some compensation IF THEY DEEM IT NECESSARY. We can pay for it if we like it (there is a 24 hour policy, probably should be 48 but again, something that needs dealt with on Valve's end, and something WE as a community can respond to). Stop crying about this, give input as it evolves, and stop acting like this only benefits Valve and Nexus!

locomotive1236 wrote: Our of curiosity, do some of the tools used to make mods, such as blender, nifskope, photoshop, have a disclaimer saying that not to be used for commercial products? If you do you have to buy a licensed one for a prolonged period? I know most don't really care if you use it for personal stuff, but once it's out in the market they have rights to the products too?

sunshinenbrick wrote: Very important point made above!

Saerileth wrote: It's interesting how most of these detailed explanations of "what modding is all about" come from people who have not uploaded a single mod of their own. How can you judge the "right" reasons to mod, and who should (or shouldn't) be modding in the first place? I'm a mod author myself, and I still don't presume to know the motivations of all the others. I can only speak for myself.

locomotive1236 wrote: @Saerileth, I speak for no other as well. I do not have the skill or want to mod SKyrim because there's already so many mods out there available that do the same thing that I desired. And you're fairly limiting modding to only Skyrim and not looking at the big picture. There are other games with mods as well and this is one of those platform that supports modding community. I've made some popular and some not so-popular mods/addons in the past for some games I don't care to mention. I have also create stuff for myself that share to my friends.

I feel that your attack on those that haven't put up a mod and have no say is unwarranted. Most that do not have a mod participated in one way or another with the creation or perfection of some mods, whether by inputs or feedbacks. To say they have no right to to say what modding is about for themselves is a little shortsighted, no?

If I have mistaken your point then I apologize, but modding community is not just about the authors who has hosted at least 1 mod. This is not to be taken as the authors don't deserve any praise, as they should definitely be. All I'm saying is the "beta testing" helps the modding community more than anything.

Tanniss wrote: actually you are correct in most instances they have two versions of a product one for personal use (which is usually free) to wit you arent allowed to use those for commercial gain and then they have the professional produce (which you have to buy to use ) which even then still only has a limited commercial availability usage of
Not to mention the use of copyrighted material which is in alot of mods that is a no no and will end up getting dmac'd out the ass

My issue with this is simple dark one calls it cutting his nose off to spite his face which if he was all for paid modding would make sense but your stand point is such that you fear that free modding and the COMMUNITIES that support such endeavors will go the way of the do do. That you allow yourself to be construed as a supporter of said paid practices when whether you choose to admit to yourself or not you are a champion for freed modding why would you send such a mixed signal because whether you believe it or not you are by no means being neutral being neutral means you have no opinion one way or the other...
when in fact you are taking money from valve's cut (which if you were to send to the top modders on here as a donation to help keep them modding for free would be giving only one clear signal) while also saying you fear that this will cause free modding to go away seems to be giving out confused and mixed signals...
I do not have any doubts that you take valves money thinking to do good with it but we all know valve is only doing this to take your legs and your integrity from you when they decide to come out with harsher rules for the modders to upload to them if you make waves they will just use the "You were not opposed to this course of action before as you gladly accepted our money stance" i love the nexus and in many many forums today i have posted that the alternative to this valve fiasco is to come here that being said being neutral means not doing anything to promote a sense of side taking and sorry taking money from valve while stating that you are afraid the way this will go could make our home for everything modding go away is taking both sides

Saerileth wrote: I did not attack anyone! I merely made an observation. You cannot deny that the most resounding and outspoken response to this topic comes from the users, and not the mod authors of this community. And I'm having a hard time believing that not at least part of the outrage come right down to "I don't want to have to pay for all these lovely mods that I'm used to have for free". And I can totally understand that sentiment! Knowing that some of my favourite mods will no longer be freely available to me makes me sad, because lets face it no one enjoys giving away money. I'm just getting very tired of seeing people talk up this grand cause of how they don't support paid mods out of principle, when it is usually simply that they do not want to pay for them. Call things by what they are.

No one has the right to define what "modding is all about", that is something each member of the community has to decide for him/herself (much as no one can claim to objectively define what is "art" and what is not, to give you a better example of what I mean). You can't set down "right" or "wrong" reasons for sharing mods, that would be looking a gift horse into the mouth. Every author has their own reasons for doing what they do. There are some things that the community as a whole has a say in - this is not one of them.

locomotive1236 wrote: "You cannot deny that the most resounding and outspoken response to this topic comes from the users, and not the mod authors of this community."

I partially agree with this, but it's also because the users outnumbered mod authors by a hefty margin. By simple statistics you will see more posts from users than actual authors. However, if you have scanned around the forums, you will note that some mod authors do voice in their opinions and their stances. Another thing, since emotions are high right now, it is much wiser for many authors to lay low and do not voice their opinions because the mob is doing witch hunt. Unfortunately, they'll look for any excuses to chastise people on the issue.

"I'm just getting very tired of seeing people talk up this grand cause of how they don't support paid mods out of principle, when it is usually simply that they do not want to pay for them. Call things by what they are."

I completely agree with this. Principle is easily swayed and is used to justify a lot of things, bad or good.

Anyways, does anyone have an answer to my previous question about the free programs used to make the mods? I feel that even something simple as photoshop would be able to pull rights on many of these texture mods. Not to sure about the other freewares.

UberSmaug wrote: "You have officially ruined any hopes of you being a reputable Modder... Congratulations you money grabbing c*nt."

Statements like this Is why authors are staying quiet and for good reason. I've even seen stuff about trying to find authors home address in some attempt to threaten bodily harm if you try to sell your mods. I'm gonna play devils advocate here and hopefully put some of the positive aspects of this into perspective.

Saerileth was right in pointing out that he found it odd that people who have contributed nothing tangible to the community are crying betrayal. I too am at a loss on how someone can talk about the sprit of modding when they've never actually done any modding. Modding is not downloading a file. Why do you feel you are entitled some else's work? That's not a community, that's communism.

People have been eating a free lunch and your pissed that the menu may be changing, get real. I've never read the amount of self-entitle BS I've seen in the past few days. "Modders don't deserve to ask for compensation"... Why the hell not? I work really long and hard on my mods, weeks and months and years of my life. Bethesda and Valve don't deserve a cut... Why not? They made the game and provided us the toolkit to begin with. Valve gives us a place to share them. I would have no problem giving Nexus a cut too had they such a service . Would I like a bigger cut. Of course I do something closer to 50% would be great then you wouldn't have to overprice your mod to actually see some real money. Don't forget the G men are gonna want their cut too. But what about the Bethesda employees. What do you think the split is like there. That would be interesting to see the numbers but I guarantee Bethesda is getting the bigger piece, so no surprise there.

"Modding as a profession is wrong..." Why wouldn't I like to get paid to mod. Freelance game artist sounds like a pretty sweet job to me. Hell that's would be my dream job. Work from home, on my own time, no deadline hanging over my head. Only work on the projects I want to work on. I wouldn't even have to wear pants.

Its not greedy to ask fair compensation for your work. Its greedy to ask to get everything for free. And no one is forcing you to buy anything. If you don't think the mod is worth the asking price then don't buy it. If you buy a mod and turns out you don't like it you can get a refund. Hell you can't even sell anything until you get enough endorsements from the community. The only people trying to force anything are the people petitioning to have the paid mods shut down.

That said I don't think free mods should or will go away. Not every mod is worth being paid for. You have no business trying to sell a retexture or port from other games. In fact if your mod is not stand alone, meaning if it requires another mod to work I think it is in poor taste to try and sell it unless you've worked out a deal with the other author. Some of these mods are popular and there will always be a demand for them but should not be sold for profit. Modders need a place to learn and grow and it sounds like the nexus will remain that place. However I think there is room to improve the community by establishing a place where premium mods can be sold. Where fair trade can be established.

It is way too easy for a good mod to get drowned in a sea of crap before it has a chance to be seen. If your mod doesn't make the hot list in the first week your pretty much dead in the water. Very few people make the effort to sift through the garbage to find that lost gem and its a damn shame. Creating a new marketplace where modders that hold themselves to a higher standard of quality can be given their fair shot and be compensated for there hard work is perfectly justified in my opinion. People act like it is a crime to sell mods, I what I find criminal is what counts as a mod these days.

This is not the death of modding. Its a chance to raise the bar. If you are selling a mod it should be finished product with a fair price. Not some half ass junk you whipped up in ten minutes, like idk say a green sword retexture with a dollar sign on it for $99.99. That is something to be outraged about. If we do this right It can be a good thing for everyone. Devs get money, that make them happy, and maybe hopefully even more Devs will give us modding resources and a bigger cut to the modder down the road. Modders get money, that makes them happy. Maybe even enough to quit your day job and be a full time modder, which means more/better mods for you. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.

Please do not be so short sighted on this. No it wont be perfect just yet and some tweaks to the model will inevitably happen. Just don't hate on this and ruin it before we see where it can go. If it fail it fails and things will go back to 100% free. Because while I can't speak for others. Yes I do it because I love to do it, and If I can make money at the same time it makes me want to do it even more. I don't think that makes me a bad person.

SurrealCruelty wrote: @locomotive
If you are using the educational versions of any Adobe product the EULA says you cannot use it for commercial purposes, that would pretty much include paid mods. That also applies to the educational version of 3DSMax, and for that matter with FaceGen and Poser. The professional versions of those programs are explicitly for commercial use.

As for Blender and Nifskope, I think they made their position on the whole thing clear by allowing themselves to be considered "contributors" by Valve. SKSE has pretty much stated on their website that you can use SKSE in mods to make money, but the resource itself will remain free.

I couldn't tell you if GIMP prohibits commercial use or not, but it's probably on their homepage and in any EULA they make you agree to when you download and install.

Saerileth wrote: Adobe can't pull any rights to anything you've made as long as you own a legal license of Photoshop. Where would digital artists be otherwise? This obviously does not extend to pirated versions, but seriously, if you try to sell mods that were made with stolen tools you deserve to be DMCA'd off the face of the planet. This is the same for all professionally available software such as ZBrush, 3DSMax or Maya. I don't know how things are with the free student versions of the last two, you'd have to read their license agreement.

A common misconception about Blender's open source license is that it can only be used for non-commercial products. This is not the case, you retain 100% ownership of anything you create with the software. The same goes for other freeware such as The Gimp.

I can't speak for modding tools such as NifSkope or Tes5Edit. You'd have to carefully read their license agreement and/or talk to the respective developers.

The people who don't do the work have absolutely no right to criticize the people who DO, be it their motivations, their reservations, their orientations, animal, vegetable, or mineral.