anonownsyou

In response to post #24738304. #24738404, #24738464, #24738479, #24738524, #24738604, #24738659, #24738679, #24738694, #24738739, #24738779, #24738799, #24738804, #24738919, #24738944, #24738974, #24739104, #24739184, #24739199, #24739204, #24739289, #24739329, #24739359, #24739394, #24739409, #24739474, #24739514, #24739544, #24739564, #24739609, #24739619, #24739639, #24739689, #24739759, #24739784, #24739884, #24739949, #24739999, #24740019, #24740029, #24740039, #24740124, #24740139, #24740174, #24740184, #24740199, #24740234, #24740349, #24740469, #24740494, #24740509, #24740569, #24740579, #24740584, #24740694, #24740734, #24740789, #24740809, #24740814, #24740834, #24740844, #24740859, #24740899, #24740939, #24740959, #24741039, #24741074, #24741079, #24741154, #24741159, #24741164, #24741289, #24741369, #24741419, #24741429, #24741444, #24741449, #24741529, #24741644, #24741674, #24741699, #24741714, #24741744, #24741754, #24741764, #24741784, #24741804, #24741884, #24741959, #24742024, #24742104, #24742119, #24742154 are all replies on the same post. I'll just repost this because it warrants repeating. No rational, sane, intelligent and critically-thinking person could justify being 'against paid mods altogether' without admitting flat-out that they believe modders don't deserve to be paid for their hard work. Dark0ne isn't among the legions of cretins coming out of the woodwork demonizing hard-working people for trying to get a little something back. Anything they do manage to make (not just considering modder's sad 25) won't even approach the level of effort and commitment many of them have put into scripting, texturing, voice acting, writing, building and rebuilding, the 3am hotfixes for impatient crybabies, and on and on their work for you goes. Yet here the nay-sayers stand screaming "I DESERVE FREE STUFF, AND I EXPECT YOU TO PRODUCE IT WITHOUT COMPLAINT". The notion that mods (many of which have development hours in the 1000+ area and smack of professional quality) are of less value than other pieces of work that nobody questions paying for, simply by virtue of them being mods, is totally and utterly asinine, and despicably disrespectful to the mod authors that produce them. Saying you're against paid mods in principle is equivalent to saying to modders "you don't deserve compensation for hours of toil for my benefit, now get back to work, and don't forget to fix that navmesh this time, that's a good boy". Modders work damn hard, and anyone saying that they don't deserve anything for that work is just slapping them in the face. That they happily and readily produce that work at personal cost to themselves, sometimes a significant one, for the same people who would tell them that they don't deserve any tangible reward for it (while still mass-consuming said work), is a testament to their character and patience, their love and appreciation for their hobby and the few people genuinely capable of appreciating it, and the value of the Nexus itself, even if it reflects poorly on users that obviously take free mods for granted. Who's really greedy, the content-creators (modders deserve the title) who want a little something for their work, or the people who think they ought to be able to enjoy that work for free? Why is this even a discussion?

In response to post #24740829. #24741339 is also a reply to the same post. My sympathies go out to any individuals or teams who were developing things under the impression that they would be getting paid. I just hope they choose to continue development regardless and release that content instead of just shelving it.

In response to post #24697914. ;_;

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424 are all replies on the same post. I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

In response to post #24679789. #24680359, #24680884, #24680909, #24681594, #24683019, #24683494, #24686649, #24686714, #24687229 are all replies on the same post. This is good. Yes.

In response to post #24646984. #24647104, #24647439, #24647524, #24647569, #24647954, #24648029, #24648264, #24648309, #24648414, #24648504, #24648519, #24648809, #24649619, #24650179, #24650239, #24650354, #24651039, #24651229, #24651294, #24651314, #24651324, #24651364, #24651429, #24651469, #24651679, #24651784, #24651844, #24651864, #24651949, #24652074, #24652084, #24652114, #24652274, #24652374, #24652484, #24652614, #24652634, #24652709, #24652984, #24652989, #24653374, #24654079, #24654169, #24654569, #24654739, #24654814, #24654864, #24654924, #24654954, #24655019, #24655324, #24655564, #24655599, #24655739, #24656204, #24656864, #24657599, #24657739, #24657834, #24658089, #24658219, #24658309, #24658354, #24658389, #24658469, #24658654, #24658804, #24661294, #24661744, #24661969, #24662334, #24662424, #24662559, #24662704, #24662874, #24662989, #24663029, #24663049, #24663124, #24663129, #24663169, #24663709, #24665544, #24665924, #24666139, #24666554, #24666584, #24666609, #24667494, #24667749 are all replies on the same post. Not to mention a place to whine like children.

In response to post #24645544. #24646089, #24649659, #24649709, #24651129, #24651814, #24653749, #24654389, #24662464, #24667379, #24667414, #24667519 are all replies on the same post. The people who don't do the work have absolutely no right to criticize the people who DO, be it their motivations, their reservations, their orientations, animal, vegetable, or mineral.

In response to post #24650844. #24651244, #24651614, #24652419, #24653429, #24653759, #24653984, #24654254, #24666729 are all replies on the same post. Attention gastovski and anyone else listening: No rational, sane, intelligent and critically-thinking person could justify being 'against paid mods altogether' without admitting flat-out that they believe modders don't deserve to be paid for their hard work. Dark0ne isn't among the legions of cretins coming out of the woodwork demonizing hard-working people for trying to get a little something back. Anything they do manage to make (not just considering modder's sad 25) won't even approach the level of effort and commitment many of them have put into scripting, texturing, voice acting, writing, building and rebuilding, the 3am hotfixes for impatient crybabies, and on and on their work for you goes. Yet here the nay-sayers stand screaming "I DESERVE FREE STUFF, AND I EXPECT YOU TO PRODUCE IT WITHOUT COMPLAINT". The notion that mods (many of which have development hours in the 1000+ area and smack of professional quality) are of less value than other pieces of work that nobody questions paying for, simply by virtue of them being mods, is totally and utterly asinine, and despicably disrespectful to the mod authors that produce them. Saying you're against paid mods in principle is equivalent to saying to modders "you don't deserve compensation for hours of toil for my benefit, now get back to work, and don't forget to fix that navmesh this time, that's a good boy". Modders work damn hard, and anyone saying that they don't deserve anything for that work is just slapping them in the face. That they happily and readily produce that work at personal cost to themselves, sometimes a significant one, for the same people who would tell them that they don't deserve any tangible reward for it (while still mass-consuming said work), is a testament to their character and patience, their love and appreciation for their hobby and the few people genuinely capable of appreciating it, and the value of the Nexus itself, even if it reflects poorly on users that obviously take free mods for granted.

In response to post #24638949. #24639859, #24640084 are all replies on the same post. If I wanted a mod, do you actually think I would stop to consider not trying it out because the donation thingy came on the screen? Utterly pants-on-head silly just to suggest it.

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169 are all replies on the same post. As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25% Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

In response to post #24599574. #24613394, #24613669 are all replies on the same post. 1303, suck on that

In response to post #24613709. #24613839, #24614334, #24614794 are all replies on the same post. ^ this guy has his eye on the ball, focus on improving the Nexus and don't worry so much about the goings on outside of it. I definitely would prefer some cleaning up for mod description pages, as I often find myself totally lost to the point that I have to use ctrl+f just to find keywords I can use to navigate. Changes to this would be magnificent, possibly to the extent that 'installation instructions' receive their own dedicated tab.

In response to post #24612364. #24612569, #24613129, #24613419 are all replies on the same post. You do realize that a staggering number of people (quite possibly most) have problems paying their rent, yet still manage to carve out a slice of free time for themselves to do something besides worrying about it. If these people changed around their priorities, I'd wager a healthy portion of the mods you take for granted wouldn't exist. You should never be too quick to tell hungry folks they're doing something wrong when we live in a world where there isn't enough to go around by design. As for the second point, that's the trick isn't it? That's why royalty systems had to be implemented for circumstances like that. If a paid mod utilizes systems or resources from a free mod (bless you SKSE team and FORE), royalties ought to be paid, out of simple fairness. Either that, or the paid mod should be self-contained and have no requirements besides the basegame. That's why the option (for authors of modder's resources most importantly) to put up a disclaimer for making the use of those resources by a paid mod verboten. Copyright law would make it legally actionable to defy that disclaimer.

In response to post #24611249. #24611339 is also a reply to the same post. If they do, that's their prerogative and I support them. You can't eat kudos or endorsements, as has been stated more than once on these forums. Not everyone has the luxury of being financially secure while also simultaneously having the time and energy to put into the creation of some of the brilliant content hosted gratis here for you. The Nexus supports mod authors getting more than a pat on the back as well, that's why the donation button exists. However, since the Nexus is based on the principle of offering its service freely to anyone (which is absolutely not the same as saying 'free mods all the time everywhere forever, merely that they will always be free HERE), nobody has to pay for anything, and authors can't hold out their cups or hold content hostage to donations.

In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944, #24609039, #24609259, #24609439, #24609544, #24609824, #24609959, #24609974, #24610559, #24610884, #24610914, #24612029 are all replies on the same post. You should read all the posts where it's been clearly pointed out that the only thing Dark0ne wants to remain open and free is the Nexus; there's no conflict of interest because Dark0ne openly admits to being behind modders getting something out of it, so long as the Nexus itself remains free and open. You folks keep putting words in his mouth with this insistence that he's some sort of champion for free mods all the time everywhere, but that's simply not the case, and that's the same as stating that Dark0ne thinks modders don't deserve to be paid for their time and effort. The opposite has been repeatedly (seriously, repeatedly, there is an extensive record of this) and openly stated for some time. Besides, there's a little poetic justice in Valve paying just a little bit towards keeping the Nexus free.

In response to post #24611234. ^ this guy needs a pat on the back and some beef jerky.

In response to post #24608314. #24608419, #24608604, #24608679, #24608689, #24608739, #24609864, #24610079, #24610199, #24610329 are all replies on the same post. Dark0ne never said 'free mods free mods', what he said was 'free Nexus', and as far as I can tell it's still free. It's clear to anyone with two brain cells to rub together (yep, I went there, a scathing indictment I know) that he can readily get behind people getting paid for their work. With a bit of thoroughness and some light reading, it should become apparent that Dark0ne has not been 'championing' free mods, only the free Nexus. However, keeping Nexus free costs money, and if Valve is offering no-strings-attached money as a courtesy, even if it's just a little bit, then the Nexus damn well ought to take it. It's the least they (Valve) can do after this catastrophe. Just because 'Valvethesda' has handled this cash-grab disastrously, what with their system pretty much encouraging cheap, easy-to-produce-and-discard and often-stolen material for sale, doesn't mean it wasn't an impressive gesture from Valve to unconditionally share a sliver of their own (unreasonably substantial) profits with the Nexus, and even then only if the Author chooses to list the Nexus. This pretty much qualifies it as a donation to a service (the Nexus, which apparently we take for granted), which the Nexus already accepts. Treating the money Valve would tight-fistedly hand over to the Nexus (and when Dark0ne says it will all go towards running it, you can believe it) as anything but a donation and a courtesy is asinine and shouldn't be perpetuated. People are angry enough without forgetting who their friends are and pointing fingers at people and services that have provided for us while asking for nothing in return but community and support. We should all be sticking up for the Nexus now more than ever.

In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944 are all replies on the same post. It's not hypocritical, it's just an opportunity for mod authors using the workshop to remember who their friends are, and make Valve give a little something back to those friends out of their own cut. It's very likely that if it weren't for the Nexus, those authors would not be in a position to sell their content in the first place (everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their work). It's really just a small courtesy to the Nexus, and if it helps even just a little bit to keep the Nexus healthy and free, then all the better. So long as it doesn't come with any kind of 'kiss our ass, love Valve' condition, then it's not blood money.

In response to post #24607064. Except this has been mentioned to be explicitly NOT okay multiple times. Holding content hostage based on a donation goal (which is functionally what 'stretch goals' are) is the same thing as monetizing it. The goal here is to suggest that donations are welcome, but in no way necessary, and that mod quality and availability in no way hinges on said donations. If money is their goal, they really ought to be jumping on Valve's bandwagon.

Standard rules of argumentation apply then, avoid fallacies and make use of informal logic.