Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[carlocgc]

In response to post #24669944. #24670159, #24670729, #24670889, #24671169, #24671494, #24672339 are all replies on the same post.

Riprock wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: We have. Repeatedly. There's nothing more we can do on that front. Bethesda will not issue a statement on the matter.

Riprock wrote: To begin, when I say "you" in my response I do not mean *you personally*. I mean the figurative *you*- meaning everybody reading.

Your goal seems to be "try to make Bethesda respond to us". That should not be the goal.

The goal should be making sure Bethesda hears you LOUD and CLEAR and with a definite message, not a bunch of complaints about communities and the ethos of modding. What Bethesda is doing- and it seems to be working, if you just say "we tried, they won't respond" - is to ignore you in the hopes of making you go away. To patiently wait until you get bored with telling them.

Firstly, since this was announced the other day, seems like you're giving up really fast, and it seems the reason is because you didn't get instant gratification on the outcome.

Secondly, even if I assume you've done this for ten years, you're telling me "there's nothing more we can do". Sure there is, the problem is that the desired outcome wasn't more than to make somebody respond. If you expect a 'statement' to be the end-game, you had no victory strategy in mind to begin with. All that amounts to is "Bethesda states that they understand we're unhappy". Frankly, big deal!

The bottom line is that you're now talking about business matters (like it or not) and you're trying to get your desired outcome by having a company make a business decision based on your emotional response.

Souperintendent wrote: It's more Valve's fault than Bethesda's.

Riprock wrote: Sure, but Valve is a provider. If Bethesda feels a provider doesn't have the right business model....

Warrior84 wrote: Perhaps it is Zenimax's fault?

youdojo wrote: In the end it all comes down to Bethesda, if they want the "pay" feature to be removed, it will be. Because in the end they hold most of the cards when it comes to "who has the rights to do what with their game". Valve is just a middleman (but that of course doesn't excuse some of its actions on this subject too).

On a more personal note, I believe the Nexus option for donations is much better than just selling a mod. But this will not fly with Bethesda/Valve because they get less/no cut of the money if it is a donation, however they can take a cut if they are selling the mod on behalf of the modder (because legally they can take a cut because they are providing a service where they sell and host the mod).

It almost always comes down to money. Valve (which to many) seemed like the beacon of light in a market full of money grabbing companies (easy example EA). Now they seem to be slowly turning into the complete opposite of what they stood for, and like most companies, forgetting who it was who supported them and made them what they are now.

Its too late Microtransactions and DLC in general have led us here. PC gaming has lost some of its brilliance.

[Gameipedia]

In response to post #24673389. #24673869 is also a reply to the same post.

Lateraliss wrote:

carlocgc wrote: Exactly this.

did you not read the entire post?, His convictions as far as i can tell are to support the growth of modding community and keep a place for people to host and share mods for free, this site is run off of ads and premiums pretty much exclusively, he decided that if people want to give some of their money going into buying mods on steam towards nexus, that sure because it would help support the site, and in no way changes the site, and sure as hell does not change his beliefs which while also being NOT WHAT YOU said they were are also not to white knight against paid modding, if they are good enough they will be bought, if people can earn money doing something they enjoy, they will try to, there's nothing wrong with that and nexus isn't even involved in that. like really I just had to reiterate the very bare-bones point of this post in a much worse way both wordedly, and with misleading quotability, because apparently you either didn't read the whole post, or did not understand the point of the post.

[kurtcuk07]

In response to post #24673189.

nekollx wrote:

This make it worse than i think. This mean, if a mod has 1$ as its price, there must be 1600 sales to use that money and eventhough you make this amount, you can use it just in Steam. Edited April 26, 2015 by kurtcuk07

[lordarcana]

Thank you Dark0ne, the one thing I love about modding is that it is free to try anything you want, and that is what I personally want, but when the mod is incredible I really want to be able to donate monies to the creator, and the first thing I personally will do is to contribute to the continuation of the nexus by going premium, I love the nexus and is both happy and I kind of feel ashamed that you basically had to cancel a vacation to give us info and try to keep the nexus from going under completely so thank you and you and everyone here on the nexus has my thanks and if you implement a donation system so that we can support modders I will gladly donate.

 

LordArcana thanking everyone here creators, administrators and players, and rambling over

[Aahzmandias]

In response to post #24667554. #24668024, #24668224, #24668354, #24673899 are all replies on the same post.

Moksha8088 wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: Well based upon the current verbage of the TOS, yes.

The new version of Wet & Cold is now the property of Steam. Even if that mod gets pulled (which it looks like it will be) for copyright infringement, it still belongs to Steam.

This is precisely what happened with Chesko's mods. Steam pulled Art of the Catch for Copyright, and when he decided he was done with Steam, he was informed that Arissa 2.0 would not be taken down, because it's no longer his to remove or redistribute. He DID manage to hide it, however, before he took his ball and went home.

That's what absolutely none of the mod authors who got conned into this or a single one of the proponents of paid modding have figured out yet. When you upload a paid mod, it ceases to be your mod. Steam can pull it down at will. They can alter the files at will. And there's nothing the mod authors can do about it.

And here's the real kicker; something EVERYONE needs to understand, about ANY corporation. Steam reserves the right to change their terms at any time, even the terms of a legally binding contract. There's nothing preventing them from withholding funds or stopping payment altogether to mod authors. There's nothing preventing them combining a mod's files with ANOTHER mod's files, and selling them as a new mod bundle. Once the mod author clicks "Agree" and "Upload", Steam can do whatever the hell they want with the mod author's files. And the mod authors have absolutely no legal foot to stand on.

Chesko found this out, and it caused him to ragequit.

Isoku is currently finding this out, and he's about to lose the rights to his bread and butter mod in its latest form.

Arthmoor has found this out, and based on the very few posts he has made since the 23rd, he is NOT happy with Valve or with the Workshop.

Let that soak in. Those are three of the top modders in the entire community. They've bought in to a CLASSIC confidence grift. And they got swindled.

Yes, they're going to get some money. And hopefully that will be some balm on their wounds. But they've lost a LOT of credibility and respect within the modding community. More importantly, they've lost the rights to their work. That probably hasn't even hit them yet. But it will.

popcorn71 wrote: I didn't know Arthmoor was involved in any if this. I would have thought he of all people would know better then to get mixed up in this...

phantompally76 wrote: Oh he's been hinting for years and years that he thinks he deserves compensation for modding. I knew he'd be one of the first to charge for mods.

If I'm honest, I'm surprised all the unofficial patches weren't included in the Sellout, er, I mean Rollout Bundle. I don't use them myself, because they break more than they fix, but I know a LOT of people do, and something like that would have caused the community to implode.

Moksha8088 wrote: Selling mods as a bundle?

So once Steam Workshop owns the Mod, does that mean they will support or develop the mod further from that point?

Can end users affected by this be part of a class action law suit?

As I said before, distribution rights are very expensive, and you have to calculate the hours you worked on them into it.

They have been robbed. By st"EA"m. in open daylight.

If you take the "normal" income of a developer, take the sum BEFORE taxes, and company costs, multiply them with the hours you worked at the project.

That is the sum, you have to name, to be paid UP FRONT, for the exclusive distribution rights ONLY. the 25% comes afterward. No wonder st"EA"m must think that we all are "useful fools".

IF the EX-3rd party DLC authors are lucky, they can use their pre-workshop mod here on the nexus, as a base for their next mod patch, without getting sued from steam. But it's more likely, they will never ever mod again, because st"EA"m ruined their motivation, and their hobby.

And of course will these mods be all taken out next week. These new exploiting model from steam are basicly all "lawsuits to happen". There is no way, they can get all rights, or all people involved agreeing with them. Some will not agree on principle.

St"EA"m and Zeni$max do not understand the motivation of some modders, making a little better world, giving something back to the mankind in generell, to lighten up their karma a bit, or simply to master something. These people, as working like slaves for their hobby, do not care about money. Another reason st"EA"m is able to fool them, and more important, rob them their WORK, leaving NOTHING but rubble in their wake.

How does this really help modding, hm?


So I'm off, Playing some new detected skyrim mod.

Oh, and don't forget to deactivate the update function on st"EA"m. Or maybe a new patch forbids the use of free mods .... Edited April 26, 2015 by mkess

[Lateraliss]

In response to post #24673389. #24673869, #24673949 are all replies on the same post.

Lateraliss wrote:

carlocgc wrote: Exactly this.

Gameipedia wrote: did you not read the entire post?, His convictions as far as i can tell are to support the growth of modding community and keep a place for people to host and share mods for free, this site is run off of ads and premiums pretty much exclusively, he decided that if people want to give some of their money going into buying mods on steam towards nexus, that sure because it would help support the site, and in no way changes the site, and sure as hell does not change his beliefs which while also being NOT WHAT YOU said they were are also not to white knight against paid modding, if they are good enough they will be bought, if people can earn money doing something they enjoy, they will try to, there's nothing wrong with that and nexus isn't even involved in that. like really I just had to reiterate the very bare-bones point of this post in a much worse way both wordedly, and with misleading quotability, because apparently you either didn't read the whole post, or did not understand the point of the post.

A really long paragraph, but it doesn't change the facts. Do you know what it's called when you don't support something but accept money from it because "it's going to happen anyways" is? It's called selling out.

When I don't support something, I don't support it, which also means I don't take profits from it. It's called having conviction. To do that, regardless of whether "Nexus is involved in that", which it now is because he has agreed to take money from it, it's a pretty classless thing to do.

You can't bad talk the process, and then profit from it. That's called being a hypocrite.

You may think that I don't understand what he said, which I don't know how you could, because anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see what he said. "I don't support the practice, but I'm going to take money from it anyways." Where he spends the money, or how he thinks this will support the modding community is moot.

[Arendella]

http://36.media.tumblr.com/2dc48bc365ae98bb7921c84821d1b024/tumblr_nnf0woe6Vs1u9sthso1_1280.png

 

*Sighs*

[bigdeano89]

In response to post #24673839.

jono123 wrote:

Thats called copyright. Bethesda technically owns ALL mods, they can take them all down if they really wanted to. The authors are making money off of Bethesdas IP, thats how the world works. They made the mod, sure, but Bethesda made the code and assets, as well as the kit authors use to make the mods.

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24673389. #24673869, #24673949, #24674134, #24674689, #24674789, #24674949 are all replies on the same post.

Lateraliss wrote:

carlocgc wrote: Exactly this.

Gameipedia wrote: did you not read the entire post?, His convictions as far as i can tell are to support the growth of modding community and keep a place for people to host and share mods for free, this site is run off of ads and premiums pretty much exclusively, he decided that if people want to give some of their money going into buying mods on steam towards nexus, that sure because it would help support the site, and in no way changes the site, and sure as hell does not change his beliefs which while also being NOT WHAT YOU said they were are also not to white knight against paid modding, if they are good enough they will be bought, if people can earn money doing something they enjoy, they will try to, there's nothing wrong with that and nexus isn't even involved in that. like really I just had to reiterate the very bare-bones point of this post in a much worse way both wordedly, and with misleading quotability, because apparently you either didn't read the whole post, or did not understand the point of the post.

Lateraliss wrote: A really long paragraph, but it doesn't change the facts. Do you know what it's called when you don't support something but accept money from it because "it's going to happen anyways" is? It's called selling out.

When I don't support something, I don't support it, which also means I don't take profits from it. It's called having conviction. To do that, regardless of whether "Nexus is involved in that", which it now is because he has agreed to take money from it, it's a pretty classless thing to do.

You can't bad talk the process, and then profit from it. That's called being a hypocrite.

You may think that I don't understand what he said, which I don't know how you could, because anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see what he said. "I don't support the practice, but I'm going to take money from it anyways." Where he spends the money, or how he thinks this will support the modding community is moot.

bigdeano89 wrote: Maybe you should take a look at the service provider list then, because if theres a mod site you know of, its on there. So is the MCM authors among others. Its an optional donation, nothing more, now move on and stop shouting at the world.

SjoertJansen wrote: Where does it state he does not support it? Show me. He doesn't!

He is wary of the consequences, yes. And he wants to keep modding free. Meaning, fighting to keep the ability to make a mod and upload it for absolute free. NOT, no-one can make money of mods... Where did you get that wrong?

He also makes sure this site will remain free, for as long as free mods can be made...

Fighting to keep modding a game a free thing to do, or fighting against people earning money from mods are two very distinct things.

Vidicus wrote: Actions speak louder than words. Taking part in Valve's actions shows WAY WAY WAY more to me than him typing words.

Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words.

You can buy in to his glib rhetoric and self-righteous narcissism all you want to. That doesn't change the fact that he IS condemning Valve and Steam's business practices with one hand, and accepting money made from those very business practices with the other. No matter how you apologists try to spin it, no matter how hard you close your eyes and try to wish it away, No matter how many hundreds of times you read his 5,000-word essay reassuring you that he's an innocent pawn, taking money from paid mod proceeds is a deliberate, immoral and unethical conflict of interest and a breach of trust, compounded by the fact that he wasn't forthcoming with this information, and only even addressed it because someone else made the community aware of it.

If you're too blind or stubborn or fanatical to see this, or even to stop for 10 seconds and consider it.........then this community is already poised to fall, and corporate greed has already won due to our own short-sightedness, ignorance and blatant stupidity, and blind loyalty to wolves in sheeps' clothing. Because Valve wants you to think that everything is ok. Chesko and Isoku thought everything was ok, because Valve told them everything was ok. The same thing can easily happen here.

All I'm asking is for you to not accept "I'm not doing anything wrong....this is ok" as a legitimate explanation. Open your eyes. Ask questions. Don't let yourself be deceived and tricked like the mod authors in the Steam Sellout er, I mean Rollout Bundle.
Edited April 26, 2015 by phantompally76

[bigdeano89]

In response to post #24673389. #24673869, #24673949, #24674134, #24674659 are all replies on the same post.

Lateraliss wrote:

carlocgc wrote: Exactly this.

Gameipedia wrote: did you not read the entire post?, His convictions as far as i can tell are to support the growth of modding community and keep a place for people to host and share mods for free, this site is run off of ads and premiums pretty much exclusively, he decided that if people want to give some of their money going into buying mods on steam towards nexus, that sure because it would help support the site, and in no way changes the site, and sure as hell does not change his beliefs which while also being NOT WHAT YOU said they were are also not to white knight against paid modding, if they are good enough they will be bought, if people can earn money doing something they enjoy, they will try to, there's nothing wrong with that and nexus isn't even involved in that. like really I just had to reiterate the very bare-bones point of this post in a much worse way both wordedly, and with misleading quotability, because apparently you either didn't read the whole post, or did not understand the point of the post.

Lateraliss wrote: A really long paragraph, but it doesn't change the facts. Do you know what it's called when you don't support something but accept money from it because "it's going to happen anyways" is? It's called selling out.

When I don't support something, I don't support it, which also means I don't take profits from it. It's called having conviction. To do that, regardless of whether "Nexus is involved in that", which it now is because he has agreed to take money from it, it's a pretty classless thing to do.

You can't bad talk the process, and then profit from it. That's called being a hypocrite.

You may think that I don't understand what he said, which I don't know how you could, because anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see what he said. "I don't support the practice, but I'm going to take money from it anyways." Where he spends the money, or how he thinks this will support the modding community is moot.

phantompally76 wrote: You can buy in to his glib rhetoric and self-righteous narcissism all you want to. That doesn't change the fact that he IS condemning Valve and Steam's business practices with one hand, and accepting money made from those very business practices with the other. No matter how you apologists try to spin it, no matter how hard you close your eyes and try to wish it away, No matter how many hundreds of times you read his 5,000-word essay reassuring you that he's an innocent pawn, taking money from paid mod proceeds is a deliberate, immoral and unethical conflict of interest and a breach of trust, compounded by the fact that he wasn't forthcoming with this information, and only even addressed it because someone else made the community aware of it.

If you're too blind or stubborn or fanatical to see this, or even to stop for 10 seconds and consider it.........then this community is already poised to fall, and corporate greed has already won. Because Valve wants you to think that everything is ok. Chesko and Isoku thought everything was ok, because Valve told them everything was ok. The same thing can easily happen here.

All I'm asking is for you to not accept "I'm not doing anything wrong....this is ok" as a legitimate explanation. Open your eyes. Ask questions. Don't let yourself be deceived and tricked like the mod authors in the Steam Sellout er, I mean Rollout Bundle.

Maybe you should take a look at the service provider list then, because if theres a mod site you know of, its on there. So is the MCM authors among others. Its an optional donation, nothing more, now move on and stop shouting at the world. Edited April 26, 2015 by bigdeano89