Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[Penfold187]

@Lateraliss.

 

The thing is your morality is, yours. We all have a moral stance on everything, from foreign policy to toilet paper. That the Nexus has taken a stance, that you perceive as hypocritical, that is your opinion and your right to view it as such. The Dark0ne and others have laid out their position and reasoning, at no point have they claimed to be opposed to receiving money offered to them, via the steam payment model. From a purely business standpoint, it would strange to say the least, to deny a revenue stream.

 

Many of us are upset even angry about the model setup by Valve and Bethesda. Me because I view it as exploitative, others because it's allow payment which goes against their, beliefs that modding should a hobby not a profession. What is damaging to the community as a whole, is the polarization and grand standing of a vocal few.

[SjoertJansen]

In response to post #24673389. #24673869, #24673949, #24674134, #24674659, #24674689 are all replies on the same post.

Lateraliss wrote:

carlocgc wrote: Exactly this.

Gameipedia wrote: did you not read the entire post?, His convictions as far as i can tell are to support the growth of modding community and keep a place for people to host and share mods for free, this site is run off of ads and premiums pretty much exclusively, he decided that if people want to give some of their money going into buying mods on steam towards nexus, that sure because it would help support the site, and in no way changes the site, and sure as hell does not change his beliefs which while also being NOT WHAT YOU said they were are also not to white knight against paid modding, if they are good enough they will be bought, if people can earn money doing something they enjoy, they will try to, there's nothing wrong with that and nexus isn't even involved in that. like really I just had to reiterate the very bare-bones point of this post in a much worse way both wordedly, and with misleading quotability, because apparently you either didn't read the whole post, or did not understand the point of the post.

Lateraliss wrote: A really long paragraph, but it doesn't change the facts. Do you know what it's called when you don't support something but accept money from it because "it's going to happen anyways" is? It's called selling out.

When I don't support something, I don't support it, which also means I don't take profits from it. It's called having conviction. To do that, regardless of whether "Nexus is involved in that", which it now is because he has agreed to take money from it, it's a pretty classless thing to do.

You can't bad talk the process, and then profit from it. That's called being a hypocrite.

You may think that I don't understand what he said, which I don't know how you could, because anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see what he said. "I don't support the practice, but I'm going to take money from it anyways." Where he spends the money, or how he thinks this will support the modding community is moot.

phantompally76 wrote: You can buy in to his glib rhetoric and self-righteous narcissism all you want to. That doesn't change the fact that he IS condemning Valve and Steam's business practices with one hand, and accepting money made from those very business practices with the other. No matter how you apologists try to spin it, no matter how hard you close your eyes and try to wish it away, No matter how many hundreds of times you read his 5,000-word essay reassuring you that he's an innocent pawn, taking money from paid mod proceeds is a deliberate, immoral and unethical conflict of interest and a breach of trust, compounded by the fact that he wasn't forthcoming with this information, and only even addressed it because someone else made the community aware of it.

If you're too blind or stubborn or fanatical to see this, or even to stop for 10 seconds and consider it.........then this community is already poised to fall, and corporate greed has already won. Because Valve wants you to think that everything is ok. Chesko and Isoku thought everything was ok, because Valve told them everything was ok. The same thing can easily happen here.

All I'm asking is for you to not accept "I'm not doing anything wrong....this is ok" as a legitimate explanation. Open your eyes. Ask questions. Don't let yourself be deceived and tricked like the mod authors in the Steam Sellout er, I mean Rollout Bundle.

bigdeano89 wrote: Maybe you should take a look at the service provider list then, because if theres a mod site you know of, its on there. So is the MCM authors among others. Its an optional donation, nothing more, now move on and stop shouting at the world.

Where does it state he does not support it? Show me. He doesn't!

He is wary of the consequences, yes. And he wants to keep modding free. Meaning, fighting to keep the ability to make a mod and upload it for absolute free. NOT, no-one can make money of mods... Where did you get that wrong?

He also makes sure this site will remain free, for as long as free mods can be made...

Fighting to keep modding a game a free thing to do, or fighting against people earning money from mods are two very distinct things.

[Shadowmane01]

I have just donated to Cabal120 as a thank you for his awesome armour retextures.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24674349.

Arendella wrote:

*GASP*

Wow I kinda wish I hadn't read that... really boils the whole thing down and shows how disillusioned V***e have become with their own audiences. Well this one at least. It the unsuspecting new generations I feel sorry for.

Also interesting he didn't say "S***m Credit is how the community steers work". A sad moment indeed.

[Deleted2792127User]

In response to post #24673389. #24673869, #24673949, #24674134, #24674659, #24674689, #24674789 are all replies on the same post.

Lateraliss wrote:

carlocgc wrote: Exactly this.

Gameipedia wrote: did you not read the entire post?, His convictions as far as i can tell are to support the growth of modding community and keep a place for people to host and share mods for free, this site is run off of ads and premiums pretty much exclusively, he decided that if people want to give some of their money going into buying mods on steam towards nexus, that sure because it would help support the site, and in no way changes the site, and sure as hell does not change his beliefs which while also being NOT WHAT YOU said they were are also not to white knight against paid modding, if they are good enough they will be bought, if people can earn money doing something they enjoy, they will try to, there's nothing wrong with that and nexus isn't even involved in that. like really I just had to reiterate the very bare-bones point of this post in a much worse way both wordedly, and with misleading quotability, because apparently you either didn't read the whole post, or did not understand the point of the post.

Lateraliss wrote: A really long paragraph, but it doesn't change the facts. Do you know what it's called when you don't support something but accept money from it because "it's going to happen anyways" is? It's called selling out.

When I don't support something, I don't support it, which also means I don't take profits from it. It's called having conviction. To do that, regardless of whether "Nexus is involved in that", which it now is because he has agreed to take money from it, it's a pretty classless thing to do.

You can't bad talk the process, and then profit from it. That's called being a hypocrite.

You may think that I don't understand what he said, which I don't know how you could, because anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see what he said. "I don't support the practice, but I'm going to take money from it anyways." Where he spends the money, or how he thinks this will support the modding community is moot.

phantompally76 wrote: You can buy in to his glib rhetoric and self-righteous narcissism all you want to. That doesn't change the fact that he IS condemning Valve and Steam's business practices with one hand, and accepting money made from those very business practices with the other. No matter how you apologists try to spin it, no matter how hard you close your eyes and try to wish it away, No matter how many hundreds of times you read his 5,000-word essay reassuring you that he's an innocent pawn, taking money from paid mod proceeds is a deliberate, immoral and unethical conflict of interest and a breach of trust, compounded by the fact that he wasn't forthcoming with this information, and only even addressed it because someone else made the community aware of it.

If you're too blind or stubborn or fanatical to see this, or even to stop for 10 seconds and consider it.........then this community is already poised to fall, and corporate greed has already won due to our own short-sightedness, ignorance and blatant stupidity. Because Valve wants you to think that everything is ok. Chesko and Isoku thought everything was ok, because Valve told them everything was ok. The same thing can easily happen here.

All I'm asking is for you to not accept "I'm not doing anything wrong....this is ok" as a legitimate explanation. Open your eyes. Ask questions. Don't let yourself be deceived and tricked like the mod authors in the Steam Sellout er, I mean Rollout Bundle.

bigdeano89 wrote: Maybe you should take a look at the service provider list then, because if theres a mod site you know of, its on there. So is the MCM authors among others. Its an optional donation, nothing more, now move on and stop shouting at the world.

SjoertJansen wrote: Where does it state he does not support it? Show me. He doesn't!

He is wary of the consequences, yes. And he wants to keep modding free. Meaning, fighting to keep the ability to make a mod and upload it for absolute free. NOT, no-one can make money of mods... Where did you get that wrong?

He also makes sure this site will remain free, for as long as free mods can be made...

Fighting to keep modding a game a free thing to do, or fighting against people earning money from mods are two very distinct things.

Actions speak louder than words. Taking part in Valve's actions shows WAY WAY WAY more to me than him typing words.

Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words.

[Devmarta]

In response to post #24673839. #24674559 is also a reply to the same post.

jono123 wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: Thats called copyright. Bethesda technically owns ALL mods, they can take them all down if they really wanted to. The authors are making money off of Bethesdas IP, thats how the world works. They made the mod, sure, but Bethesda made the code and assets, as well as the kit authors use to make the mods.

Shush, they made the game and tools. There would be no skyrim mods without skyrim.

[xgkf]

At least you guys were open an honest about your own involvement in all of this and the cut that you take right from the start in your original news article when Steam first announced this new Paid Modding thing, instead of waiting for it to be outed by someone and then having to explain yourself out of it.

 

 

Oh wait... ;)

[bigdeano89]

In response to post #24673389. #24673869, #24673949, #24674134, #24674659, #24674689, #24674789, #24674949 are all replies on the same post.

Lateraliss wrote:

carlocgc wrote: Exactly this.

Gameipedia wrote: did you not read the entire post?, His convictions as far as i can tell are to support the growth of modding community and keep a place for people to host and share mods for free, this site is run off of ads and premiums pretty much exclusively, he decided that if people want to give some of their money going into buying mods on steam towards nexus, that sure because it would help support the site, and in no way changes the site, and sure as hell does not change his beliefs which while also being NOT WHAT YOU said they were are also not to white knight against paid modding, if they are good enough they will be bought, if people can earn money doing something they enjoy, they will try to, there's nothing wrong with that and nexus isn't even involved in that. like really I just had to reiterate the very bare-bones point of this post in a much worse way both wordedly, and with misleading quotability, because apparently you either didn't read the whole post, or did not understand the point of the post.

Lateraliss wrote: A really long paragraph, but it doesn't change the facts. Do you know what it's called when you don't support something but accept money from it because "it's going to happen anyways" is? It's called selling out.

When I don't support something, I don't support it, which also means I don't take profits from it. It's called having conviction. To do that, regardless of whether "Nexus is involved in that", which it now is because he has agreed to take money from it, it's a pretty classless thing to do.

You can't bad talk the process, and then profit from it. That's called being a hypocrite.

You may think that I don't understand what he said, which I don't know how you could, because anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see what he said. "I don't support the practice, but I'm going to take money from it anyways." Where he spends the money, or how he thinks this will support the modding community is moot.

phantompally76 wrote: You can buy in to his glib rhetoric and self-righteous narcissism all you want to. That doesn't change the fact that he IS condemning Valve and Steam's business practices with one hand, and accepting money made from those very business practices with the other. No matter how you apologists try to spin it, no matter how hard you close your eyes and try to wish it away, No matter how many hundreds of times you read his 5,000-word essay reassuring you that he's an innocent pawn, taking money from paid mod proceeds is a deliberate, immoral and unethical conflict of interest and a breach of trust, compounded by the fact that he wasn't forthcoming with this information, and only even addressed it because someone else made the community aware of it.

If you're too blind or stubborn or fanatical to see this, or even to stop for 10 seconds and consider it.........then this community is already poised to fall, and corporate greed has already won due to our own short-sightedness, ignorance and blatant stupidity, and blind loyalty to wolves in sheeps' clothing. Because Valve wants you to think that everything is ok. Chesko and Isoku thought everything was ok, because Valve told them everything was ok. The same thing can easily happen here.

All I'm asking is for you to not accept "I'm not doing anything wrong....this is ok" as a legitimate explanation. Open your eyes. Ask questions. Don't let yourself be deceived and tricked like the mod authors in the Steam Sellout er, I mean Rollout Bundle.

bigdeano89 wrote: Maybe you should take a look at the service provider list then, because if theres a mod site you know of, its on there. So is the MCM authors among others. Its an optional donation, nothing more, now move on and stop shouting at the world.

SjoertJansen wrote: Where does it state he does not support it? Show me. He doesn't!

He is wary of the consequences, yes. And he wants to keep modding free. Meaning, fighting to keep the ability to make a mod and upload it for absolute free. NOT, no-one can make money of mods... Where did you get that wrong?

He also makes sure this site will remain free, for as long as free mods can be made...

Fighting to keep modding a game a free thing to do, or fighting against people earning money from mods are two very distinct things.

Vidicus wrote: Actions speak louder than words. Taking part in Valve's actions shows WAY WAY WAY more to me than him typing words.

Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words.

WORDS speak louder when its an explanation. I will say again, he is NOT the only site to be on the service provider list, AFKMODs and MCM menu are on there too. People are just flocking here because Chesko took a hissy fit and tried to move the blame.

[NeoLithic1]

In response to post #24659674. #24661119, #24668009, #24668469, #24668534, #24669789 are all replies on the same post.

8_of_11 wrote:

Rekiara wrote: This is exactly how I feel.

Even with negative press at the launch of the program, even if it only ends up with mediocre "sales", this is nearly cost-free revenue for any publisher and there's not a chance that it will be passed by. Publishers are going to start pressing developers to release mod resource kits with built in DRM / publishing restrictions to tie them to Marketplace (or Origin or Uplay or whatever future services start offering similar options).

The thing that bugs me most is the constant, naive insistence that this "won't change anything". Because it will. It absolutely will. People spouted the same naivety about things like custom maps and skins in FPS games, and look at the state of that genre today. DLC, DLC, DLC, call us next year for your annual paid update.

Brendan62 wrote: Any modder that signed up for this pay for mods crap deserves everything he\she gets, both in getting ripped of by steam\valve to the flaming he\she will recieve.

Nobody should support this its the tolling of the death bells for modding , my work is free for people will always be free and if nexus continues to support this by recieving a cut (and at least makes a stand against it) all my nexus stuff will be removed and i will just open my own site and host my stuff there.

Dont allow big business to destroy another of our pleasures

thestoryteller01 wrote: What I am saying now is no satire.

I always preferred Oblivion over Skyrim. I played Oblivion 6 times due to the large number of TCs and game changing mods but I played Skyrim only once, which was actually Falskaar.

Oblivion is still DRM free and most us have it on a physical disk, so MAYBE modders could just ditch Skyrim and stick with Oblivion.

Team modders 1, team G&B 0

phantompally76 wrote: I've often considered that. I own Oblivion, but I've never played it. I'm not a big fan of playing in 1st person, though.

But again, if I'm going to boycott mods from authors who sell out to Steam, I can't be a hypocrite and use their Oblivion mods, either.

Saerileth wrote: You do know the definition of boycott, right? It is an important weapon in the hands of a customer (or group of customers) because it has the potential of hurting the seller in question, by reducing the amount of sales thereby reducing revenue. That is why a boycott can pressure a company into changing their ways.

You can't boycott something that is available for free. Or, well, you can, but it's completely pointless because the author won't care. The vast majority of them are not in this for the popularity or fame and losing a few endorsements will not hurt them at all. The whole notion is absurd.

Besides, Oblivion was a horrible game, go Morrowind :P (tounge-in-cheek on this last part, obviously)

How about Daggerfall?

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24673389. #24673869, #24673949, #24674134, #24674659, #24674689, #24674789, #24674949, #24675064 are all replies on the same post.

Lateraliss wrote:

carlocgc wrote: Exactly this.

Gameipedia wrote: did you not read the entire post?, His convictions as far as i can tell are to support the growth of modding community and keep a place for people to host and share mods for free, this site is run off of ads and premiums pretty much exclusively, he decided that if people want to give some of their money going into buying mods on steam towards nexus, that sure because it would help support the site, and in no way changes the site, and sure as hell does not change his beliefs which while also being NOT WHAT YOU said they were are also not to white knight against paid modding, if they are good enough they will be bought, if people can earn money doing something they enjoy, they will try to, there's nothing wrong with that and nexus isn't even involved in that. like really I just had to reiterate the very bare-bones point of this post in a much worse way both wordedly, and with misleading quotability, because apparently you either didn't read the whole post, or did not understand the point of the post.

Lateraliss wrote: A really long paragraph, but it doesn't change the facts. Do you know what it's called when you don't support something but accept money from it because "it's going to happen anyways" is? It's called selling out.

When I don't support something, I don't support it, which also means I don't take profits from it. It's called having conviction. To do that, regardless of whether "Nexus is involved in that", which it now is because he has agreed to take money from it, it's a pretty classless thing to do.

You can't bad talk the process, and then profit from it. That's called being a hypocrite.

You may think that I don't understand what he said, which I don't know how you could, because anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see what he said. "I don't support the practice, but I'm going to take money from it anyways." Where he spends the money, or how he thinks this will support the modding community is moot.

phantompally76 wrote: You can buy in to his glib rhetoric and self-righteous narcissism all you want to. That doesn't change the fact that he IS condemning Valve and Steam's business practices with one hand, and accepting money made from those very business practices with the other. No matter how you apologists try to spin it, no matter how hard you close your eyes and try to wish it away, No matter how many hundreds of times you read his 5,000-word essay reassuring you that he's an innocent pawn, taking money from paid mod proceeds is a deliberate, immoral and unethical conflict of interest and a breach of trust, compounded by the fact that he wasn't forthcoming with this information, and only even addressed it because someone else made the community aware of it.

If you're too blind or stubborn or fanatical to see this, or even to stop for 10 seconds and consider it.........then this community is already poised to fall, and corporate greed has already won due to our own short-sightedness, ignorance and blatant stupidity, and blind loyalty to wolves in sheeps' clothing. Because Valve wants you to think that everything is ok. Chesko and Isoku thought everything was ok, because Valve told them everything was ok. The same thing can easily happen here.

All I'm asking is for you to not accept "I'm not doing anything wrong....this is ok" as a legitimate explanation. Open your eyes. Ask questions. Don't let yourself be deceived and tricked like the mod authors in the Steam Sellout er, I mean Rollout Bundle.

bigdeano89 wrote: Maybe you should take a look at the service provider list then, because if theres a mod site you know of, its on there. So is the MCM authors among others. Its an optional donation, nothing more, now move on and stop shouting at the world.

SjoertJansen wrote: Where does it state he does not support it? Show me. He doesn't!

He is wary of the consequences, yes. And he wants to keep modding free. Meaning, fighting to keep the ability to make a mod and upload it for absolute free. NOT, no-one can make money of mods... Where did you get that wrong?

He also makes sure this site will remain free, for as long as free mods can be made...

Fighting to keep modding a game a free thing to do, or fighting against people earning money from mods are two very distinct things.

Vidicus wrote: Actions speak louder than words. Taking part in Valve's actions shows WAY WAY WAY more to me than him typing words.

Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words.

bigdeano89 wrote: WORDS speak louder when its an explanation. I will say again, he is NOT the only site to be on the service provider list, AFKMODs and MCM menu are on there too. People are just flocking here because Chesko took a hissy fit and tried to move the blame.

bigdean, rest assured, the community is JUST as angry with those entities as they are with Dark0ne and with sellout mod authors and with Valve and Bethesda.

The only difference is that those entities aren't saying "I don't like this one bit, but I'll still take the money from it".

AFAIK, those entities aren't saying much of anything.

But I'm sure some white knight will swoop in and prove me wrong.