BioWare RPG cliche chart

[Amayakyrol]

Has anyone else seen this? It's pretty funny (and sad at the same time).

 

http://gza.gameriot.com/content/images/orig_320200_1_1257581825.png

 

It also a spawned a pretty interesting thread over on their forums ->

http://meforums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=705597&forum=144&sp=0.

 

Now, I've played NWN, Kotor, Jade Empire, and Dragon Age all the way through. I started Mass Effect. I don't think the cliches are bad in NWN, Kotor, and JE. I was unhappy with Dragon Age and am not impressed with first 3-4 hours of ME. But I'm too sleepy to make an extremely coherent post about that right now. Just leaving this up here for y'all to take a look at.

[AliasTheory]

LOL. That reminds me of this:

 

http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/featured/gameinformer/joeblog/gi_rpgflowchart.jpg

Edited December 23, 2010 by AliasTheory

[Amayakyrol]

I can only think of a couple games that start in a village >.<.

[Karasuman]

Some parts of it are indeed humorous, but I like being Devil's advocate, and a lot of the chart is a stretch. In Kotor, you go to Taris and Dantooine in addition to those four planets listed. In DA, you can start as a Noble, either Dwarven or Human. In Kotor you are certainly not a nobody, you're just made to think you are for the safety of those around you.

 

Much of the stuff on the chart is present in virtually every RPG. I gotta admit though, Bioware does need to start infusing some new concepts into their engine. DA, much as I loved it, is built more or less on the same engine Neverwinter Nights was like 8 years ago. Time for a bit of a change boys and girls.

[Vindekarr]

Ugh, I knew I hated 'em for a reason.

 

As RPGs go, I preffer the funny ones like DeathSpank and Torchlight. I mean, atleast they understand it's a cliche'd genre and spice it up by making you Greg The Uninteresting(my Torchlight Barbarian) or DeathSpank, Keeper Of The Purple Thong.

 

Anything's better than replaying the same formula over and over. That's why the truly good RPGs are the innovative ones, the ones that are willing to be mocked if it eans they stand ot in a crowd, The above mentioned pair are fine examples, as is The Witcher. The other main way you can do that is to basicaly give the gamer a proverbial Dry Erase Board and a modding tool to use it with. games like FO3, and Oblivion.

 

True masterpeices blend the two, again, see Witcher.

[brokenergy]

Cliche =/= Bad games. It's how you turn the cliche into a good and engaging story that makes it memorable and that's what BioWare does. It maybe overused and that's kind of the annoying point but if you think of it, every single story in the history of existence have about seven simple themes (I don't have the link now). Why should BioWare be the only exception? Bethesda isn't original either and it still hits the same old themes that BioWare does as well (a hero who must save the empire from doom!). The only difference is that some people don't even see the story because it's games are so sand-boxed.

 

Taking that into consideration I agree with AT that every single RPG is cliche but like I said before it's how you turn the cliche into a good and engaging story that makes it memorable. In fact the more I think about BioWare's recent games, the more I see BioWare's evolving as developer, in terms of story and game mechs. Past gaming titles were more cliche because they where stuck in a world that was fully fleshed already than to it's current ones, which are their own creations and has started to break their old mold that people know so well. I know for the fact that Dragon Age 2 will be start to break that mold as you are not playing a hero who saves the world nor you are a "chosen one" that you see in so many games. I also know that DA2 will be more dynamic than it's predecessor in terms of story and they are willing to push new design concepts to better their product. Thats what I want to see from a developer; one who is willing to push forward, try out new things to bring a better experience to it's fan base and to bring in new people to the fold. That's why I love BioWare but I won't defend them till death. If I know they did something bad then I accept it but what I don't accept is superstitious claims made by a few (not you OP).

 

Also: The Witcher is not original either (Geralt reminds me of Revan with a voice and fixed gender), and should be stated that it's very immature, especially with it's depiction of women.

Edited December 23, 2010 by brokenergy

[Amayakyrol]

Well, the chart was made as a joke by a fan. If you've played all those Bioware games you can admit that they start to run together somewhat...

 

For those not in the know, cliches are indeed bad, when are used well, they are called 'tropes'.

 

 

It is somewhat disheartening that most rpgs are so formulaic. Morrowind is, but I think it pulled off the story brilliantly. Sometimes it works with the setting and sometimes it doesn't.

[brokenergy]

I know it was a joke made by a member (I lurk in the BSN a lot) but what works me up though is that people expect too much from BioWare as the Black Isle successor. Truth is that BioWare doesn't even remotely resemble Black Isle's philosophy nor they want to make the same old games forever. I'm just stating that BioWare isn't the only company that does this and if you look more carefully, even lesser known RPGs do it. Gothic isn't original, Divinity II isn't original, it's how you use the that trope (I knew there was a name for that but I forgot while I was writing) that makes the game memorable. I love Morrowind with all my heart and to this day I feel it's the best TES game of the series but it wasn't original either. You saved the empire yet again and became the hero of the land, nor that I mind much as it felt more flesh out than Oblivion. The best story I still feel is PS:T as it takes a different approach to the traditional D&D feel even though it was still in the FR setting.

[Karasuman]

I agree that Bioware doesn't want to make the same old games forever. A good place for them to start with that desire is to stop building all their games on Neverwinter's engine. I love Bioware as a company, as well as their games. However, Square has shown that you can build entries in a game series (FF) on entirely different engines from one another and still make the games familiar and likable.

[brokenergy]

They spend 5 years making the Eclipse engine, it will take a while till they make a new and better engine for the DA series or new IPs. All that they can do is improve the engine for both PC and console, till they make a new engine for more CRPG style games.