Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[CaladanAnduril]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828274, #24828519, #24828634, #24828644 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure that many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

EDIT: https://vhsglitch.bandcamp.com/album/evil-technology-album

if you have no idea what I'm talking about :)

EDIT: So much stuff to spend my money on, so much talent. When I have the money, I am happy to reward people for their efforts. We need to find trust in others we know and not take the first corporate carrot dangled in our faces.

greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

sunshinenbrick wrote: FREEDOM!

I am happy being able to choose, and I that is what I feel has been the most important fight fought about this.

rickerhk wrote: @greggorypeccary
Thank you. I don't think I will have time to collaberate but I definitely want to check out your mod. It's been awhile since i've actually played the game but I will be making a new load order in the comming weeks.

@Xavathos
Only my Skyrim mods have been deleted. My fallout mods will stay. With the fallout communities I have only ever experienced mutual respect and helpfulness. I may even update one or two of them in the comming months if I have time.
I will just leave it at that. I think I am done scolding the Skyrim community and will just get back to FNV full time for now.

asmodan wrote: That is not "SOME random selection of "community" comments".

Here is another "random selection":

"Thanks for all the work so far. I don't agree with your decision but I respect it. Hope it works out for you!"

"I am quite disappointed with your decision to change an already existing mod (albeit an updated one) to a pay-to-use system, it very much alienates a wide margin of players who don't have the disposable income. Please consider abandoning the steam workshop, and end this fiasco. That being said, this mod is fantastic, and i very much cannot stand to play without it."

"Just endorsed your mod, because I appreciate the work you've put in it and I also think that you deserve money for your work. I dislike the Steam workshop and Valve and I am not happy with your decision to sell the 5.0 version on steam, but I like the 4.1 version, which is for free and that's why you get my endorsement."

"Hey I really love your mod, it is essential to many other mods because of the integrated MCM. Please don't charge it on the Workshop, and if you do, please don't remove it from Nexus. It's a very important mod to other modders as well. Thank you"

Xavathos wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

Exactly. I think most of the people that signed the petition against this entire idea were not against the idea of modders being rewarded for their work, but rather the way Valve and Bethesda implemented the whole thing. And when I say implemented, I mean hammered home.

The 30% cut Valve got out of it is default, I mean, Valve gets 30% of -everything- that sells on Steam, so this would be no exception in that respect. The other 70% however, was up to the developer to decide, and I think Bethesda was being extremely greedy taking 45% of it for themselves, just for having made the game. Especially knowing how much they've made from selling Skyrim on various platforms already, and the fact that even if mods are made through their toolkit, using their assets and resources, it is still something created by the person that creates it, not Bethesda, and therefor the creator should be rewarded the most for their originality, persistence and honest hard work.

If anything, -that- is what bothered me the most about this entire ordeal. It was never fair, for anyone, even the modders. I guess that's why only -fifteen- of the modders now so verbally (or otherwise) assaulted signed up for it to begin with? :)

I'm afraid that the damage done this days is irrecuperable.

Maybe you don't know who Rickerhk is or what Project Brazil is ( the entire team lead by Thaiauxin managed to create something unique in the Fallout universe and in the modding community, an entire new universe, the word total conversion is too small to define their creation and I'm speaking from someone point of view who reached a peak in Fallout modding).
This fellow modder helped me in a critical moment, out of the blue, with lipsync ( and those who knows how cumbersome and boring is that operation AND for hundreds of spoken lines ! ).
To bring this kind of man to the point to wrote " Not making mod for haters"... believe me, it's a painful loss for the "community".

And this truly extraordinary modder has a great influence on other...

I fear not of those modders who, with flames and noises, will announce that will hide their modes... I fear those who quietly, without big bangs, will leave the scene for ever, migrating to other horizons.

I respect any mod maker, no matter of size and scope, because I know exactly the amount of dedication and excitement is involved in the creation process.
No matter you created a nail mod, a quest and adventure mod or an armor or weapon mod, you invested your time, soul and money ( energy bill could go quite high :( ) to CREATE something.
No one from this haters will EVER understand the damage done by an UNENDORSEMENT button click when some idiotic request is not fulfilled by the author.

We will see the results in the following weeks...

[CaladanAnduril]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828274, #24828519, #24828634, #24828644, #24828689, #24829099 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure that many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

EDIT: https://vhsglitch.bandcamp.com/album/evil-technology-album

if you have no idea what I'm talking about :)

EDIT: So much stuff to spend my money on, so much talent. When I have the money, I am happy to reward people for their efforts. We need to find trust in others we know and not take the first corporate carrot dangled in our faces.

greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

sunshinenbrick wrote: FREEDOM!

I am happy being able to choose, and that is what I feel has been the most important fight fought about this.

rickerhk wrote: @greggorypeccary
Thank you. I don't think I will have time to collaberate but I definitely want to check out your mod. It's been awhile since i've actually played the game but I will be making a new load order in the comming weeks.

@Xavathos
Only my Skyrim mods have been deleted. My fallout mods will stay. With the fallout communities I have only ever experienced mutual respect and helpfulness. I may even update one or two of them in the comming months if I have time.
I will just leave it at that. I think I am done scolding the Skyrim community and will just get back to FNV full time for now.

asmodan wrote: That is not "SOME random selection of "community" comments".

Here is another "random selection":

"Thanks for all the work so far. I don't agree with your decision but I respect it. Hope it works out for you!"

"I am quite disappointed with your decision to change an already existing mod (albeit an updated one) to a pay-to-use system, it very much alienates a wide margin of players who don't have the disposable income. Please consider abandoning the steam workshop, and end this fiasco. That being said, this mod is fantastic, and i very much cannot stand to play without it."

"Just endorsed your mod, because I appreciate the work you've put in it and I also think that you deserve money for your work. I dislike the Steam workshop and Valve and I am not happy with your decision to sell the 5.0 version on steam, but I like the 4.1 version, which is for free and that's why you get my endorsement."

"Hey I really love your mod, it is essential to many other mods because of the integrated MCM. Please don't charge it on the Workshop, and if you do, please don't remove it from Nexus. It's a very important mod to other modders as well. Thank you"

Xavathos wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

Exactly. I think most of the people that signed the petition against this entire idea were not against the idea of modders being rewarded for their work, but rather the way Valve and Bethesda implemented the whole thing. And when I say implemented, I mean hammered home.

The 30% cut Valve got out of it is default, I mean, Valve gets 30% of -everything- that sells on Steam, so this would be no exception in that respect. The other 70% however, was up to the developer to decide, and I think Bethesda was being extremely greedy taking 45% of it for themselves, just for having made the game. Especially knowing how much they've made from selling Skyrim on various platforms already, and the fact that even if mods are made through their toolkit, using their assets and resources, it is still something created by the person that creates it, not Bethesda, and therefor the creator should be rewarded the most for their originality, persistence and honest hard work.

If anything, -that- is what bothered me the most about this entire ordeal. It was never fair, for anyone, even the modders. I guess that's why only -fifteen- of the modders now so verbally (or otherwise) assaulted signed up for it to begin with? :)

CaladanAnduril wrote: I'm afraid that the damage done this days is irrecuperable.

Maybe you don't know who Rickerhk is or what Project Brazil is ( the entire team lead by Thaiauxin managed to create something unique in the Fallout universe and in the modding community, an entire new universe, the word total conversion is too small to define their creation and I'm speaking from someone point of view who reached a peak in Fallout modding).
This fellow modder helped me in a critical moment, out of the blue, with lipsync ( and those who knows how cumbersome and boring is that operation AND for hundreds of spoken lines ! ).
To bring this kind of man to the point to wrote " Not making mod for haters"... believe me, it's a painful loss for the "community".

And this truly extraordinary modder has a great influence on other...

I fear not of those modders who, with flames and noises, will announce that will hide their modes... I fear those who quietly, without big bangs, will leave the scene for ever, migrating to other horizons.

I respect any mod maker, no matter of size and scope, because I know exactly the amount of dedication and excitement is involved in the creation process.
No matter you created a nail mod, a quest and adventure mod or an armor or weapon mod, you invested your time, soul and money ( energy bill could go quite high :( ) to CREATE something.
No one from this haters will EVER understand the damage done by an UNENDORSEMENT button click when some idiotic request is not fulfilled by the author.

We will see the results in the following weeks...

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ Xavathos

As well as money, the main issue for me was the practical illegal employment of customers while giving them absolutley no rights. They even admitted they had the idea that modders would be getting paid more than the core staff of the game development team. In turn they would likely off-load most of the work to modders.

Could have legs I don't know, but there must be proper in depth discussions on this and evaluations of exactly what we are being sold, what the Sales of Goods Act, EULA and TOC are.

@ asmodan
A drop of normality in an OCEAN of hate...
Thank you for your point, that's what is sad me most, those people are simply engulfed in the torrent of other rage.

Oups... what I was talking about!!!

" Phew, we fought for the good cause and won.

Sad for the modders we have lost in the aftermath but we did it.

We can be proud for not just bending over to Valve and Bethesda"

Sad for the modders... yeah, like you care! Edited April 30, 2015 by CaladanAnduril

[Xavathos]

In response to post #24827544. #24828559 is also a reply to the same post.

lereddit wrote: Phew, we fought for the good cause and won.

Sad for the modders we have lost in the aftermath but we did it.

We can be proud for not just bending over to Valve and Bethesda.

foster xbl wrote: You "won" and you're "proud"?
Fair enough but try to remember one thing, this "war" you fought was never against Valve or Bethesda, neither of them were harmed in the slightest. Every user which was up in arms, will continue to support them by using their service, and buying their products. Your great "victory" was over the people who have freely and willingly given to this "community".
Enjoy your spoils
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65261

@ foster xbl

It's good to see people with their eyes open. :)

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828274, #24828519, #24828634, #24828644, #24828689, #24828809 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure that many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

EDIT: https://vhsglitch.bandcamp.com/album/evil-technology-album

if you have no idea what I'm talking about :)

EDIT: So much stuff to spend my money on, so much talent. When I have the money, I am happy to reward people for their efforts. We need to find trust in others we know and not take the first corporate carrot dangled in our faces.

greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

sunshinenbrick wrote: FREEDOM!

I am happy being able to choose, and that is what I feel has been the most important fight fought about this.

rickerhk wrote: @greggorypeccary
Thank you. I don't think I will have time to collaberate but I definitely want to check out your mod. It's been awhile since i've actually played the game but I will be making a new load order in the comming weeks.

@Xavathos
Only my Skyrim mods have been deleted. My fallout mods will stay. With the fallout communities I have only ever experienced mutual respect and helpfulness. I may even update one or two of them in the comming months if I have time.
I will just leave it at that. I think I am done scolding the Skyrim community and will just get back to FNV full time for now.

asmodan wrote: That is not "SOME random selection of "community" comments".

Here is another "random selection":

"Thanks for all the work so far. I don't agree with your decision but I respect it. Hope it works out for you!"

"I am quite disappointed with your decision to change an already existing mod (albeit an updated one) to a pay-to-use system, it very much alienates a wide margin of players who don't have the disposable income. Please consider abandoning the steam workshop, and end this fiasco. That being said, this mod is fantastic, and i very much cannot stand to play without it."

"Just endorsed your mod, because I appreciate the work you've put in it and I also think that you deserve money for your work. I dislike the Steam workshop and Valve and I am not happy with your decision to sell the 5.0 version on steam, but I like the 4.1 version, which is for free and that's why you get my endorsement."

"Hey I really love your mod, it is essential to many other mods because of the integrated MCM. Please don't charge it on the Workshop, and if you do, please don't remove it from Nexus. It's a very important mod to other modders as well. Thank you"

Xavathos wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

Exactly. I think most of the people that signed the petition against this entire idea were not against the idea of modders being rewarded for their work, but rather the way Valve and Bethesda implemented the whole thing. And when I say implemented, I mean hammered home.

The 30% cut Valve got out of it is default, I mean, Valve gets 30% of -everything- that sells on Steam, so this would be no exception in that respect. The other 70% however, was up to the developer to decide, and I think Bethesda was being extremely greedy taking 45% of it for themselves, just for having made the game. Especially knowing how much they've made from selling Skyrim on various platforms already, and the fact that even if mods are made through their toolkit, using their assets and resources, it is still something created by the person that creates it, not Bethesda, and therefor the creator should be rewarded the most for their originality, persistence and honest hard work.

If anything, -that- is what bothered me the most about this entire ordeal. It was never fair, for anyone, even the modders. I guess that's why only -fifteen- of the modders now so verbally (or otherwise) assaulted signed up for it to begin with? :)

CaladanAnduril wrote: I'm afraid that the damage done this days is irrecuperable.

Maybe you don't know who Rickerhk is or what Project Brazil is ( the entire team lead by Thaiauxin managed to create something unique in the Fallout universe and in the modding community, an entire new universe, the word total conversion is too small to define their creation and I'm speaking from someone point of view who reached a peak in Fallout modding).
This fellow modder helped me in a critical moment, out of the blue, with lipsync ( and those who knows how cumbersome and boring is that operation AND for hundreds of spoken lines ! ).
To bring this kind of man to the point to wrote " Not making mod for haters"... believe me, it's a painful loss for the "community".

And this truly extraordinary modder has a great influence on other...

I fear not of those modders who, with flames and noises, will announce that will hide their modes... I fear those who quietly, without big bangs, will leave the scene for ever, migrating to other horizons.

I respect any mod maker, no matter of size and scope, because I know exactly the amount of dedication and excitement is involved in the creation process.
No matter you created a nail mod, a quest and adventure mod or an armor or weapon mod, you invested your time, soul and money ( energy bill could go quite high :( ) to CREATE something.
No one from this haters will EVER understand the damage done by an UNENDORSEMENT button click when some idiotic request is not fulfilled by the author.

We will see the results in the following weeks...

CaladanAnduril wrote: A drop of normality in an OCEAN of hate...
Thank you for your point, that's what is sad me most, those people are simply engulfed in the torrent of other rage.

@ Xavathos

As well as money, the main issue for me was the practical illegal employment of customers while giving them absolutley no rights. They even admitted they had the idea that modders would be getting paid more than the core staff of the game development team. In turn they would likely off-load most of the work to modders.

Could have legs I don't know, but there must be proper in depth discussions on this and evaluations of exactly what we are being sold, what the Sales of Goods Act, EULA and TOC are. Edited April 30, 2015 by sunshinenbrick

[lereddit]

In response to post #24827544. #24828559, #24828899 are all replies on the same post.

lereddit wrote: Phew, we fought for the good cause and won.

Sad for the modders we have lost in the aftermath but we did it.

We can be proud for not just bending over to Valve and Bethesda.

foster xbl wrote: You "won" and you're "proud"?
Fair enough but try to remember one thing, this "war" you fought was never against Valve or Bethesda, neither of them were harmed in the slightest. Every user which was up in arms, will continue to support them by using their service, and buying their products. Your great "victory" was over the people who have freely and willingly given to this "community".
Enjoy your spoils
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65261

Xavathos wrote: @ foster xbl

It's good to see people with their eyes open. :)

Why do you think you should get money for something you do for fun?
I love to write but I don't make any money from it, and never intend to.

What about Trainwiz, Fore, SureAI and all the other modders who opposed this shady practise? Are they all wrong too? Considering that they have created impressive mods they could easily charge money for it, why do you think they don't?

Stop being melodramatic. Modding is a hobby, not a job. If you want to earn money for modding, become a game dev. Easy as that.

[acidzebra]

 

Exactly. I think most of the people that signed the petition against this entire idea were not against the idea of modders being rewarded for their work, but rather the way Valve and Bethesda implemented the whole thing. And when I say implemented, I mean hammered home.

 

The 30% cut Valve got out of it is default, I mean, Valve gets 30% of -everything- that sells on Steam, so this would be no exception in that respect. The other 70% however, was up to the developer to decide, and I think Bethesda was being extremely greedy taking 45% of it for themselves, just for having made the game. Especially knowing how much they've made from selling Skyrim on various platforms already, and the fact that even if mods are made through their toolkit, using their assets and resources, it is still something created by the person that creates it, not Bethesda, and therefor the creator should be rewarded the most for their originality, persistence and honest hard work.

 

If anything, -that- is what bothered me the most about this entire ordeal. It was never fair, for anyone, even the modders. I guess that's why only -fifteen- of the modders now so verbally (or otherwise) assaulted signed up for it to begin with? :smile:

 

 

The "community" people like to go on about consists of three basic groups: content creators, contributors (those who do not mod directly but help out in other ways or in general just interact with the rest of the community in a constructive way), and lastly, the content consumers. Some of the most vehement anti-pay posters don't care about the good fight, they don't care about community, they don't care about content creators, they don't care about profit cuts, they just care about a download site where they can quickly grab whatever they want for free and bolt.

 

I've read their comments on this stuff and looked at their profiles; for the most part they could be carbon copies. Zero/very few posts (little interaction with other members), zero mods, a handful of endorsements at most. In many other communities these people are known as leeches. They are the bulk of the nexus visitors. These were the bulk of the people who were so incredibly up in arms. Note: bulk, not all.

 

Not because "omg the creators get so little from Valve". Do you think people like that care about whether others get a deal that may or may not be unfair considering standard industry practices? It's a nice thought but it's BS, especially when I've read so many comments to mod authors "we won't miss you, for you ten others", "mods have always been free and should always be free". Coming from people who haven't contributed a damn thing, who in general are too lazy to even click a button to say they liked it or leave a comment.

 

"Lereddit" is a perfect example. Just another leech.

[blackasm]

I have been one of the modders more vocal about the rights of the artists, and as a result I had taken down my humble retextures. I still feel this decision to remove paid mods was hugely flawed and that the potential for great modding was enormous as proven by the return of skyui team making better paid version and making a newer better moonpath to elseweyr. I also felt this event has proven that free modding and the nexus was never in any actual danger, while simultaneously proving that there was a large market that could have given real value to modding and more than a pat on the back and a nickel in the cup for real talented artists and programmers. I feel artists are constantly undervalued and I also feel this was possibly one of the grossest examples of artists devaluing their own work (something I deal with constantly). It is literally the reason why they are called starving artists, because they don't put value on their work and thus are never professional in their endeavors. It is also the real reason why I had more or less quit modding a long time ago, because like most people I got s#*! to do, I cant justify the time it would take to make the high poly versions of my armors and the rigging and everything else.

 

I am still infuriated with some of the stuff I have heard from the more outspoken users, and admittedly I took down my mods in a fit of rage from their audacity, entitlement and outright arrogance. I did however keep reading, I read through a lot of comments these past 24 hours, it has made me reconsider a lot of things and I cant hurt the community the real community that I have helped and has helped me and that I would help more if I could. I still wont be making any of my armor mods until I have a real incentive to as I have work and a family but I wont hurt the community I love just because of a bunch of assholes. So anyways I am putting the retextures back up after this message.

Edited April 30, 2015 by blackasm

[TheLastIstari]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828274, #24828519, #24828634, #24828644, #24828689, #24828809, #24829099 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure that many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

EDIT: https://vhsglitch.bandcamp.com/album/evil-technology-album

if you have no idea what I'm talking about :)

EDIT: So much stuff to spend my money on, so much talent. When I have the money, I am happy to reward people for their efforts. We need to find trust in others we know and not take the first corporate carrot dangled in our faces.

greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

sunshinenbrick wrote: FREEDOM!

I am happy being able to choose, and that is what I feel has been the most important fight fought about this.

rickerhk wrote: @greggorypeccary
Thank you. I don't think I will have time to collaberate but I definitely want to check out your mod. It's been awhile since i've actually played the game but I will be making a new load order in the comming weeks.

@Xavathos
Only my Skyrim mods have been deleted. My fallout mods will stay. With the fallout communities I have only ever experienced mutual respect and helpfulness. I may even update one or two of them in the comming months if I have time.
I will just leave it at that. I think I am done scolding the Skyrim community and will just get back to FNV full time for now.

asmodan wrote: That is not "SOME random selection of "community" comments".

Here is another "random selection":

"Thanks for all the work so far. I don't agree with your decision but I respect it. Hope it works out for you!"

"I am quite disappointed with your decision to change an already existing mod (albeit an updated one) to a pay-to-use system, it very much alienates a wide margin of players who don't have the disposable income. Please consider abandoning the steam workshop, and end this fiasco. That being said, this mod is fantastic, and i very much cannot stand to play without it."

"Just endorsed your mod, because I appreciate the work you've put in it and I also think that you deserve money for your work. I dislike the Steam workshop and Valve and I am not happy with your decision to sell the 5.0 version on steam, but I like the 4.1 version, which is for free and that's why you get my endorsement."

"Hey I really love your mod, it is essential to many other mods because of the integrated MCM. Please don't charge it on the Workshop, and if you do, please don't remove it from Nexus. It's a very important mod to other modders as well. Thank you"

Xavathos wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

Exactly. I think most of the people that signed the petition against this entire idea were not against the idea of modders being rewarded for their work, but rather the way Valve and Bethesda implemented the whole thing. And when I say implemented, I mean hammered home.

The 30% cut Valve got out of it is default, I mean, Valve gets 30% of -everything- that sells on Steam, so this would be no exception in that respect. The other 70% however, was up to the developer to decide, and I think Bethesda was being extremely greedy taking 45% of it for themselves, just for having made the game. Especially knowing how much they've made from selling Skyrim on various platforms already, and the fact that even if mods are made through their toolkit, using their assets and resources, it is still something created by the person that creates it, not Bethesda, and therefor the creator should be rewarded the most for their originality, persistence and honest hard work.

If anything, -that- is what bothered me the most about this entire ordeal. It was never fair, for anyone, even the modders. I guess that's why only -fifteen- of the modders now so verbally (or otherwise) assaulted signed up for it to begin with? :)

CaladanAnduril wrote: I'm afraid that the damage done this days is irrecuperable.

Maybe you don't know who Rickerhk is or what Project Brazil is ( the entire team lead by Thaiauxin managed to create something unique in the Fallout universe and in the modding community, an entire new universe, the word total conversion is too small to define their creation and I'm speaking from someone point of view who reached a peak in Fallout modding).
This fellow modder helped me in a critical moment, out of the blue, with lipsync ( and those who knows how cumbersome and boring is that operation AND for hundreds of spoken lines ! ).
To bring this kind of man to the point to wrote " Not making mod for haters"... believe me, it's a painful loss for the "community".

And this truly extraordinary modder has a great influence on other...

I fear not of those modders who, with flames and noises, will announce that will hide their modes... I fear those who quietly, without big bangs, will leave the scene for ever, migrating to other horizons.

I respect any mod maker, no matter of size and scope, because I know exactly the amount of dedication and excitement is involved in the creation process.
No matter you created a nail mod, a quest and adventure mod or an armor or weapon mod, you invested your time, soul and money ( energy bill could go quite high :( ) to CREATE something.
No one from this haters will EVER understand the damage done by an UNENDORSEMENT button click when some idiotic request is not fulfilled by the author.

We will see the results in the following weeks...

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ asmodan
A drop of normality in an OCEAN of hate...
Thank you for your point, that's what is sad me most, those people are simply engulfed in the torrent of other rage.

Oups... what I was talking about!!!

" Phew, we fought for the good cause and won.

Sad for the modders we have lost in the aftermath but we did it.

We can be proud for not just bending over to Valve and Bethesda"

Sad for the modders... yeah, like you care!

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ Xavathos

As well as money, the main issue for me was the practical illegal employment of customers while giving them absolutley no rights. They even admitted they had the idea that modders would be getting paid more than the core staff of the game development team. In turn they would likely off-load most of the work to modders.

Could have legs I don't know, but there must be proper in depth discussions on this and evaluations of exactly what we are being sold, what the Sales of Goods Act, EULA and TOC are.

Yeah, the past few days have made me realize that there are some serious issues underlying the community. The community here is Gamergate 2.0.

[CaladanAnduril]

In response to post #24829274.

acidzebra wrote:

 

Exactly. I think most of the people that signed the petition against this entire idea were not against the idea of modders being rewarded for their work, but rather the way Valve and Bethesda implemented the whole thing. And when I say implemented, I mean hammered home.

The 30% cut Valve got out of it is default, I mean, Valve gets 30% of -everything- that sells on Steam, so this would be no exception in that respect. The other 70% however, was up to the developer to decide, and I think Bethesda was being extremely greedy taking 45% of it for themselves, just for having made the game. Especially knowing how much they've made from selling Skyrim on various platforms already, and the fact that even if mods are made through their toolkit, using their assets and resources, it is still something created by the person that creates it, not Bethesda, and therefor the creator should be rewarded the most for their originality, persistence and honest hard work.

If anything, -that- is what bothered me the most about this entire ordeal. It was never fair, for anyone, even the modders. I guess that's why only -fifteen- of the modders now so verbally (or otherwise) assaulted signed up for it to begin with? :smile:

 

 

The "community" people like to go on about consists of three basic groups: content creators, contributors (those who do not mod directly but help out in other ways or in general just interact with the rest of the community in a constructive way), and lastly, the content consumers. Some of the most vehement anti-pay posters don't care about the good fight, they don't care about community, they don't care about content creators, they don't care about profit cuts, they just care about a download site where they can quickly grab whatever they want for free and bolt.

 

I've read their comments on this stuff and looked at their profiles; for the most part they could be carbon copies. Zero/very few posts (little interaction with other members), zero mods, a handful of endorsements at most. In many other communities these people are known as leeches. They are the bulk of the nexus visitors. These were the bulk of the people who were so incredibly up in arms. Note: bulk, not all.

 

Not because "omg the creators get so little from Valve". Do you think people like that care about whether others get a deal that may or may not be unfair considering standard industry practices? It's a nice thought but it's BS, especially when I've read so many comments to mod authors "we won't miss you, for you ten others", "mods have always been free and should always be free". Coming from people who haven't contributed a damn thing, who in general are too lazy to even click a button to say they liked it or leave a comment.

 

"Lereddit" is a perfect example. Just another leech.

1000 + Bravo

Unfortunate people like you are in minority, GOD forgive if you post such comment as a modder, you will be instantly accused to be "spoiled brat, immature, selfish and money grabber".

Sadly, this "bulk" have done more damage than you could imagine... but the results will show up in the near future.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828274, #24828519, #24828634, #24828644, #24828689, #24828809, #24829099, #24829419 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

" you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

" you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

" unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

" I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

"Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

" I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
You... the "community, made it possible.

And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
Do you REALLY thing that?

Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

Sad and shameful

macintroll wrote: +1000
quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
GET UNREAL
Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
"The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

Thank you for your honesty.

Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

@ macintroll

Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.

sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.

rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

@ retnav98

( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you

sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
@rickerhk
I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

@ Xavathos

Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

I'm sure that many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?

EDIT: https://vhsglitch.bandcamp.com/album/evil-technology-album

if you have no idea what I'm talking about :)

EDIT: So much stuff to spend my money on, so much talent. When I have the money, I am happy to reward people for their efforts. We need to find trust in others we know and not take the first corporate carrot dangled in our faces.

greggorypeccary wrote: sunshinenbrick
I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

sunshinenbrick wrote: FREEDOM!

I am happy being able to choose, and that is what I feel has been the most important fight fought about this.

rickerhk wrote: @greggorypeccary
Thank you. I don't think I will have time to collaberate but I definitely want to check out your mod. It's been awhile since i've actually played the game but I will be making a new load order in the comming weeks.

@Xavathos
Only my Skyrim mods have been deleted. My fallout mods will stay. With the fallout communities I have only ever experienced mutual respect and helpfulness. I may even update one or two of them in the comming months if I have time.
I will just leave it at that. I think I am done scolding the Skyrim community and will just get back to FNV full time for now.

asmodan wrote: That is not "SOME random selection of "community" comments".

Here is another "random selection":

"Thanks for all the work so far. I don't agree with your decision but I respect it. Hope it works out for you!"

"I am quite disappointed with your decision to change an already existing mod (albeit an updated one) to a pay-to-use system, it very much alienates a wide margin of players who don't have the disposable income. Please consider abandoning the steam workshop, and end this fiasco. That being said, this mod is fantastic, and i very much cannot stand to play without it."

"Just endorsed your mod, because I appreciate the work you've put in it and I also think that you deserve money for your work. I dislike the Steam workshop and Valve and I am not happy with your decision to sell the 5.0 version on steam, but I like the 4.1 version, which is for free and that's why you get my endorsement."

"Hey I really love your mod, it is essential to many other mods because of the integrated MCM. Please don't charge it on the Workshop, and if you do, please don't remove it from Nexus. It's a very important mod to other modders as well. Thank you"

Xavathos wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

Exactly. I think most of the people that signed the petition against this entire idea were not against the idea of modders being rewarded for their work, but rather the way Valve and Bethesda implemented the whole thing. And when I say implemented, I mean hammered home.

The 30% cut Valve got out of it is default, I mean, Valve gets 30% of -everything- that sells on Steam, so this would be no exception in that respect. The other 70% however, was up to the developer to decide, and I think Bethesda was being extremely greedy taking 45% of it for themselves, just for having made the game. Especially knowing how much they've made from selling Skyrim on various platforms already, and the fact that even if mods are made through their toolkit, using their assets and resources, it is still something created by the person that creates it, not Bethesda, and therefor the creator should be rewarded the most for their originality, persistence and honest hard work.

If anything, -that- is what bothered me the most about this entire ordeal. It was never fair, for anyone, even the modders. I guess that's why only -fifteen- of the modders now so verbally (or otherwise) assaulted signed up for it to begin with? :)

CaladanAnduril wrote: I'm afraid that the damage done this days is irrecuperable.

Maybe you don't know who Rickerhk is or what Project Brazil is ( the entire team lead by Thaiauxin managed to create something unique in the Fallout universe and in the modding community, an entire new universe, the word total conversion is too small to define their creation and I'm speaking from someone point of view who reached a peak in Fallout modding).
This fellow modder helped me in a critical moment, out of the blue, with lipsync ( and those who knows how cumbersome and boring is that operation AND for hundreds of spoken lines ! ).
To bring this kind of man to the point to wrote " Not making mod for haters"... believe me, it's a painful loss for the "community".

And this truly extraordinary modder has a great influence on other...

I fear not of those modders who, with flames and noises, will announce that will hide their modes... I fear those who quietly, without big bangs, will leave the scene for ever, migrating to other horizons.

I respect any mod maker, no matter of size and scope, because I know exactly the amount of dedication and excitement is involved in the creation process.
No matter you created a nail mod, a quest and adventure mod or an armor or weapon mod, you invested your time, soul and money ( energy bill could go quite high :( ) to CREATE something.
No one from this haters will EVER understand the damage done by an UNENDORSEMENT button click when some idiotic request is not fulfilled by the author.

We will see the results in the following weeks...

CaladanAnduril wrote: @ asmodan
A drop of normality in an OCEAN of hate...
Thank you for your point, that's what is sad me most, those people are simply engulfed in the torrent of other rage.

Oups... what I was talking about!!!

" Phew, we fought for the good cause and won.

Sad for the modders we have lost in the aftermath but we did it.

We can be proud for not just bending over to Valve and Bethesda"

Sad for the modders... yeah, like you care!

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ Xavathos

As well as money, the main issue for me was the practical illegal employment of customers while giving them absolutley no rights. They even admitted they had the idea that modders would be getting paid more than the core staff of the game development team. In turn they would likely off-load most of the work to modders.

Could have legs I don't know, but there must be proper in depth discussions on this and evaluations of exactly what we are being sold, what the Sales of Goods Act, EULA and TOC are.

The Last Istari wrote: Yeah, the past few days have made me realize that there are some serious issues underlying the community. The community here is Gamergate 2.0.

It is rife everywhere!

Only thing I can say is to educate yourself as much as possible. Read everything you can and find out what your rights are. If you don't... you will get shafted!