Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[thestoryteller01]

In response to post #24735839. #24735914, #24736029 are all replies on the same post.

Jsmorris14 wrote:

erg0sum wrote: there is truth in your words.

Laxe wrote: War is not over, this was just victory over one battle.
Steam planed all this since 2012 and as you can read they just abondoned it for skyrim. it is stupid to believe that there wont be games with transactions for user made content built in from scratch.

Valve got their taste with TF and Dota, they will not stop.

The wounds are deep and some of the extensive damage will not be repairable.

And I am sure the only thing that saved modding as we know it (for now) was the fact, that different to Valve, Bethesda has investors and shareholders who tend to react nervous to negative press and probably found, that the estimated profit was not worth the continuous PR disaster.

[LeianneH]

In response to post #24733199. #24733474, #24733594, #24733919, #24733969, #24734114, #24734584, #24734984, #24735109, #24735199, #24735449, #24735464, #24735474, #24735764, #24735829, #24736169 are all replies on the same post.

Elta1 wrote:

sa547 wrote: All the damage could've been averted if the powers-that-be asked for a public consultation in the first place.

Saije wrote: Stop trying to ride the white horse here.

Modders turncoated on the community with hilarious haste.

Users responded in the way that an individual betrayed will always respond.

And now that the dust is settled and the greedy have shown their true colors.

(The fact that they don't give flying f*#@ about the community, just money.)

Now that the paid modding has been vanquished and said greedy individuals have no

recourse except to accept that they were completely happy in their betrayel.

You try to paste the blame on the ones betrayed rather then the ones betraying...

Ridiculous.


I hope if one lesson has been learned from all this it is this...

People will betray each other in a heartbeat when money is involved.


The only modders who deserve any sympathy are the ones that were attacked by the

greedy capitalist pushing pissants for not standing at the side of their fellow turncoats.

Sorry if I get banned for this comment... But it needed to be said.

focusv5 wrote: In a world where everyone has a voice (the internet), you're going to get all kinds of extremes in terms of opinions, and it clearly showed over the past few days. The blame cannot be placed solely on the users as if they were all issuing death threats and spewing absolute hatred. There were of course many users that were constructive and not issuing death threats by explaining that this system could have worked if it was implemented better. Don't let the sour few spoil your opinion of the masses. I wouldn't hop on the 'pity bethesda/valve' train as a result of hearing death threats as these sorts of statements are not uncommon in nearly all avenues of life. You make absolute statements like 'the users' as if they represented everyone, there were many who were calmly involved in the discussion as well.

JCDNWarrior wrote: Change is not neccesarily good. We're talking about a hobby that many of us have put thousands of hours into. I don't think the modding community should be seen as villains in this. Especially if people wish to ascribe good intentions to Valve and Bethesda (Two companies that would probably not even exist anymore or be very small without their modding communities).

AAA gaming has been going downwards for years and modding is what keeps the spirit of gaming alive for millions of people. Messing with that by introducing money and consequentially greed, on top of a very easily abused system of Steam Workshop and more and more information uncovered about how this was planned long in advance, and there's no way that the modding and gaming communities wouldn't raise absolute hell over this.

I just truly hope that all parties learn from this. However, with monetary interests involved, I think everyone should be vigiliant that this could happen all over again, just better repacked in PR-speak than Gabe Newell's meltdown AMA.

daedriccat wrote: Lets stop calling those who wanted to keep to the TES tradition of sharing free mods as being afraid of change. That is short sighted and ignorant and the typical cry of those who wanted to profit from modding.

SirTopas wrote: Oh, horsecrap, Saije. If modding does come to an end, it will be folks like you with your pitchforks, torches, tar and feathers who end it with your demands for "ideological purity". You and your ilk have already driven Chesko, the author of Frostfall and other outstanding mods, out of the community completely. On the other hand, you, I note, have never published a mod. Again I ask, who is more greedy? The modders who have put thousands of hours and real money into modding or people like you who demand that the results of that work be provided to you for free?

Hamthaak wrote: SirTopas: You just received a kudo for this.
Saije: no offense, mate. but this kind of attitude is just what i got tired of in the last days. Who betrayed you? Who owes you (and me, and anyone else here) anything? We should be thankfull to anyone who creates mods we can use for free. THEY are the basis of this "community".

TehKaoZ wrote: ^This

phantompally76 wrote: SirTopas, what about the thousands of hours mod USERS have logged playtesting mods, providing quality control, reporting bugs and glitches, providing feedback and suggestions to mod authors? Hmmm????

Not having ever created a mod does not invalidate one's opinion or stance on the matter. Without mod users, there would be no mod authors. Don't you ever forget that.

SirTopas wrote: phantompally76, not having produced a mod absolutely does have a bearing when people are making demands about what modders may or may not do with the product of their own work.

Aavok wrote: I get what you're saying but...
A bit over-dramatic don't you think?

Azulyn wrote: Pretty sure the death threats thing is being blown out of proportion by all the white knights and butthurt. I mean, c'mon folks. You are on the internet. I'm sure you've all visited the cesspool that is 4chan. I'm sure most of the turds issuing death threats were just trolls anyway.

MysticalFlare wrote: @phantom, you don't need mod users to be a mod author. More often than not, I make mods exclusively for myself. I don't know where you got the idea that you have any authority over the author, but that sense of entitlement is pretty ridiculous.

bjornvaldr wrote: Not sure I agree with you and not sure you got the point of it all. The only people who should be demonized here are the ones who went around spamming middle finger ASCII art or harassing mod authors. Reactions such as protest banners and hiding mods were justified. Since when is protesting against something you feel is wrong childish? Don't lump everyone into the same category just because people share the same distaste for paid modding. The Workshop has been known - and is still known - for people stealing mods. People who hid or pulled their mods, while their reactions may have been a little early to do so, were justified. They didn't want people stealing their hard work and selling it. The people who pulled their mods with the idea of exclusively selling them, however, that's a different story. I won't get into that one though. You can't blame people for feeling betrayed. Sure, some people went about expressing this in stupid ways, but not everyone went around spamming and harassing. And no. No one banished anyone. The only mod authors who left were ones who didn't have the foresight to see what they were doing was going to cause a backlash. I hope they come back, but if they don't, I'm not going to beg them to do so. Yeah, it sucks they got harassed, but that happens on the Internet. I wish it didn't, but people need to thicken their skin.

asanesslights wrote: Now you're trying avert towards the users, which in fact only expressed their feelings because of sudden change. Now the gamergate journalists will make an article off this one.

@phantompally76

"SirTopas, what about the thousands of hours mod USERS have logged playtesting mods, providing quality control, reporting bugs and glitches, providing feedback and suggestions to mod authors? Hmmm????

Not having ever created a mod does not invalidate one's opinion or stance on the matter. Without mod users, there would be no mod authors. Don't you ever forget that. "

********************** ADDRESSING THE ABOVE STATEMENT ******************

USERS who have donated their time, work and talents improving a mod -
are no longer JUST USERS ... they are ALSO contributing Mod Authors!

Sorry, but I would still be a mod author WITHOUT mod users .. as I make my mods FOR ME FIRST - and then, if I feel you or someone else might enjoy it - I choose to SHARE.

[jfisha]

In response to post #24732344. #24732604, #24732704, #24732709, #24732774, #24732869, #24732879, #24733044, #24733464, #24733739, #24733824, #24733844, #24734224, #24734679, #24734879, #24734924, #24735019, #24735179, #24735629, #24736304 are all replies on the same post.

CelticPaladin wrote:

calfurius wrote: I know quite a few modders became disgusted with the way some members of the modding community treated them. I'm mostly concerned if Chesko is coming back or not, he didn't deserve anywhere near the level of hate that he got.

phantompally76 wrote: I hope that's not the case.

I do, however, hope that in future they think twice about arrogantly condescending mod users looking for assistance with their mods in comments sections, like they have in the past. I'd stopped using some of their mods before this crap ever started because of that.

Riprock wrote: Hopefully time will make him realize that words on the internet are just words. We put way too much stock in typed messages.

CelticPaladin wrote: The number of vitriol and death threats were insane. I couldn't blame them for leaving this community behind. It'd be depressing, but there you go.

meredithmiles wrote: What I don't understand is why Arthmoor, Chesko and Isoku don't already have job offers in hand. Seriously, they are all three hardworking, dedicated and skilled. If I ran a game company I'd have snatched them up ages ago.

This is a great time to donate to them, I think.

jfisha wrote: Each team only lost a handful of endorsements. Yes, there was some angry vitriol, but most people respectfully disagreed with what they did. No more, no less.

BarnabasCollins wrote: I don't even see why people were targeting the modders anyway. For me this was never even about the modders, but the future of modding itself. The modders are innocent.

oblivion104 wrote: I stayed away from the melodrama and only sign the petition,but what happened to chesko??

Also, what happened to the paid mods? Did they take it down?

phantompally76 wrote: heh, apt user name there.

Wait, there are mods for Skyrim??????

Noortje wrote: They would never have updated skyui if it wasn't for the pay offer. I doubt they will finish skyui 5.0 and release it now, but it's not like it was ever going to be free in the first place.

Saije wrote: f*#@ that... We weren't black hearted. They were when they gave us a big green middle finger.

SNSDLOVER wrote: Honestly if they love modding and love sharing their mods to us, I doubt theyll leave. Modding could be their hobby or passion so Im certain this wont make them go away.

redrat07 wrote: there were d-threats to people who left to go to the paid system ?

phantompally76 wrote: @redrat, not in the quantities that people here want you to believe.

There was certainly some of it.....there always is. But the vast majority of butthurt mod authors and white knights are including irate mod users who posted "uninstalled and unendorsed, shame on you" along with any amount of criticism in that category. And THOSE comments grossly outnumbered any sort of threats, and were perfectly fair and justified.

BluemaxDR wrote: Oh, they won't stop developing mods. Just stop posting.

Arendella wrote: Chesko I don't have a problem with.

Isoku and SkyUi? definitely will never use their mods again *Will just use old version of SkyUi*. Was just a big slap in the face when he was all giddy about putting his mods up on Steam Workshop just pissing everyone off even more.

jfisha wrote: Thumbs up, Phantompally.

There are some mod authors that are going pull an Anita Sarkeesian and chastise our entire community because of a very small amount of very angry comments, but if you go back and look at comments, you'll notice most of them are people just saying they're disappointed and unendorsing.

Azulyn wrote: jfisha + phantompally76
Amen.
Most of the comments I saw were reasonable criticisms and/or remarks of disappointment, not frothing rage and threats of death and venngeeeaanncceee as all these white knights would have you believe.

tem1980 wrote: Unfortunately, that's the nature of the internet. 90% outrage and ass-holism, 5% controlled nonsense, 5% rational measured thought.

Its actually a pretty decent mirror of the real population, except real people only say the s#*! they do on the internet in RL when they dont think they can be identified or held accountable. Or you know, what the internet allows.

Everyone should try and tune out all the rage and insane s#*!.

I'll actually disagree with that, tem. I just think the very angry among us happen to also be the most inclined to write a comment.

[Tar]

In response to post #24733199. #24733474, #24733594, #24733919, #24733969, #24734114, #24734584, #24734984, #24735109, #24735199, #24735449, #24735464, #24735474, #24735764, #24735829, #24736169, #24736484 are all replies on the same post.

Elta1 wrote:

sa547 wrote: All the damage could've been averted if the powers-that-be asked for a public consultation in the first place.

Saije wrote: Stop trying to ride the white horse here.

Modders turncoated on the community with hilarious haste.

Users responded in the way that an individual betrayed will always respond.

And now that the dust is settled and the greedy have shown their true colors.

(The fact that they don't give flying f*#@ about the community, just money.)

Now that the paid modding has been vanquished and said greedy individuals have no

recourse except to accept that they were completely happy in their betrayel.

You try to paste the blame on the ones betrayed rather then the ones betraying...

Ridiculous.


I hope if one lesson has been learned from all this it is this...

People will betray each other in a heartbeat when money is involved.


The only modders who deserve any sympathy are the ones that were attacked by the

greedy capitalist pushing pissants for not standing at the side of their fellow turncoats.

Sorry if I get banned for this comment... But it needed to be said.

focusv5 wrote: In a world where everyone has a voice (the internet), you're going to get all kinds of extremes in terms of opinions, and it clearly showed over the past few days. The blame cannot be placed solely on the users as if they were all issuing death threats and spewing absolute hatred. There were of course many users that were constructive and not issuing death threats by explaining that this system could have worked if it was implemented better. Don't let the sour few spoil your opinion of the masses. I wouldn't hop on the 'pity bethesda/valve' train as a result of hearing death threats as these sorts of statements are not uncommon in nearly all avenues of life. You make absolute statements like 'the users' as if they represented everyone, there were many who were calmly involved in the discussion as well.

JCDNWarrior wrote: Change is not neccesarily good. We're talking about a hobby that many of us have put thousands of hours into. I don't think the modding community should be seen as villains in this. Especially if people wish to ascribe good intentions to Valve and Bethesda (Two companies that would probably not even exist anymore or be very small without their modding communities).

AAA gaming has been going downwards for years and modding is what keeps the spirit of gaming alive for millions of people. Messing with that by introducing money and consequentially greed, on top of a very easily abused system of Steam Workshop and more and more information uncovered about how this was planned long in advance, and there's no way that the modding and gaming communities wouldn't raise absolute hell over this.

I just truly hope that all parties learn from this. However, with monetary interests involved, I think everyone should be vigiliant that this could happen all over again, just better repacked in PR-speak than Gabe Newell's meltdown AMA.

daedriccat wrote: Lets stop calling those who wanted to keep to the TES tradition of sharing free mods as being afraid of change. That is short sighted and ignorant and the typical cry of those who wanted to profit from modding.

SirTopas wrote: Oh, horsecrap, Saije. If modding does come to an end, it will be folks like you with your pitchforks, torches, tar and feathers who end it with your demands for "ideological purity". You and your ilk have already driven Chesko, the author of Frostfall and other outstanding mods, out of the community completely. On the other hand, you, I note, have never published a mod. Again I ask, who is more greedy? The modders who have put thousands of hours and real money into modding or people like you who demand that the results of that work be provided to you for free?

Hamthaak wrote: SirTopas: You just received a kudo for this.
Saije: no offense, mate. but this kind of attitude is just what i got tired of in the last days. Who betrayed you? Who owes you (and me, and anyone else here) anything? We should be thankfull to anyone who creates mods we can use for free. THEY are the basis of this "community".

TehKaoZ wrote: ^This

phantompally76 wrote: SirTopas, what about the thousands of hours mod USERS have logged playtesting mods, providing quality control, reporting bugs and glitches, providing feedback and suggestions to mod authors? Hmmm????

Not having ever created a mod does not invalidate one's opinion or stance on the matter. Without mod users, there would be no mod authors. Don't you ever forget that.

SirTopas wrote: phantompally76, not having produced a mod absolutely does have a bearing when people are making demands about what modders may or may not do with the product of their own work.

Aavok wrote: I get what you're saying but...
A bit over-dramatic don't you think?

Azulyn wrote: Pretty sure the death threats thing is being blown out of proportion by all the white knights and butthurt. I mean, c'mon folks. You are on the internet. I'm sure you've all visited the cesspool that is 4chan. I'm sure most of the turds issuing death threats were just trolls anyway.

MysticalFlare wrote: @phantom, you don't need mod users to be a mod author. More often than not, I make mods exclusively for myself. I don't know where you got the idea that you have any authority over the author, but that sense of entitlement is pretty ridiculous.

bjornvaldr wrote: Not sure I agree with you and not sure you got the point of it all. The only people who should be demonized here are the ones who went around spamming middle finger ASCII art or harassing mod authors. Reactions such as protest banners and hiding mods were justified. Since when is protesting against something you feel is wrong childish? Don't lump everyone into the same category just because people share the same distaste for paid modding. The Workshop has been known - and is still known - for people stealing mods. People who hid or pulled their mods, while their reactions may have been a little early to do so, were justified. They didn't want people stealing their hard work and selling it. The people who pulled their mods with the idea of exclusively selling them, however, that's a different story. I won't get into that one though. You can't blame people for feeling betrayed. Sure, some people went about expressing this in stupid ways, but not everyone went around spamming and harassing. And no. No one banished anyone. The only mod authors who left were ones who didn't have the foresight to see what they were doing was going to cause a backlash. I hope they come back, but if they don't, I'm not going to beg them to do so. Yeah, it sucks they got harassed, but that happens on the Internet. I wish it didn't, but people need to thicken their skin.

asanesslights wrote: Now you're trying avert towards the users, which in fact only expressed their feelings because of sudden change. Now the gamergate journalists will make an article off this one.

LeianneG wrote: @phantompally76

"SirTopas, what about the thousands of hours mod USERS have logged playtesting mods, providing quality control, reporting bugs and glitches, providing feedback and suggestions to mod authors? Hmmm????

Not having ever created a mod does not invalidate one's opinion or stance on the matter. Without mod users, there would be no mod authors. Don't you ever forget that. "

********************** ADDRESSING THE ABOVE STATEMENT ******************

USERS who have donated their time, work and talents improving a mod -
are no longer JUST USERS ... they are ALSO contributing Mod Authors!

Sorry, but I would still be a mod author WITHOUT mod users .. as I make my mods FOR ME FIRST - and then, if I feel you or someone else might enjoy it - I choose to SHARE.

Remember that this is what normally happen when change and new rules get pulled down on peoples head without any warning. This was neither the mod makers fault or the users fault, they felt they was cheated, this was all done by Valve and Bethesda for not doing what should have been done when change is on the agenda.

Anyway, some users overstepped and their actions should not be tolerated. But lets look forward and try an unite the community again, lets get this farce created by valve and Bethesda out of our system.

[Charismoon]

In response to post #24735859. #24735979 is also a reply to the same post.

ContagiousCure wrote:

ff7legend wrote: The CK for Skyrim is a glitchy mess too, with the most notorious bugs being the inability to load multiple masters into the CK without it throwing errors or crashing altogether & the deleted navmeshes during finalization of a plug-in.

You can load multiple masters into the CK or do you mean all those errors when you load up regardless?

[Vesuvius1745]

My big problem with this is without the community-made mods, Bethesda's vanilla game is almost unplayable. They wanted to take a cut of people's work for putting stuff in their game that should have been in there in the first place. This is especially true with all the "bug fix" mods people had to make just to FIX the things Bethesda screwed up with the vanilla game. If anything, Bethesda should be the ones to pay the modders for finishing their game for them.

[UberSmaug]

So there is this thing called a "Craft Fair". Craziest thing. It this place where hobbyest go to sell their little do-dads, and funny little needle point kitty cat tissue box covers, And woodcrafts, and WORKS OF FRIGGIN ART!!!!!!!! They don't steal from each other's tables when the other person is not looking... Well some probably do but that's because some people are jerks, And want to take things because they somehow justify to themselves that they are entitled everything they see simply because.... they want it. Yeah some people are going to try to abuse the system. Just like somebody will try to abuse every system. Is that really a reason not to give this a try? It will not be perfect right away. And probably will never be "perfect". Nothing is. We will just have to respect each other and be honest in our actions. Those who betray that trust will be outed if we watch each others backs.

 

Why is modding any different from Wood Working Jewelry Making, Painting, Sculpture, Drawing, Music, Knitting, and countless other, hobbies for some, but for others they are more. For those willing to put in the hard work and dedication, make things of a professional quality, it can become a job. Maybe not your primary source of income but a nice secondary bump. Who cares if its not going to make you rich. You had fun while you were doing it right. This is not about being greedy.

 

All these posts about evil gaming companies trying to scam people and rip you off is the highest form of disrespect. If you cant understand that it makes me sad. If not for Bethesda and Valve and Nexus and all the others there would be no mods, let alone a game to play at all. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. If you think for one second the developers at these companies don't love games as much as you do than we are lost. That kind of thinking, not the money, will eat away at this community and the entire gaming industry.

 

Pro Paid mods. Is not Anti Free mods. Free mods should not go away. There are plenty of mods that just wont be able to jive with the paid model and they should not be eliminated. New modders need a place to get their feet wet. We need a place to get feedback on works in progress. If your mod doesn't make it to the market place you should have to option to releases for free. Trying to ban free modding would be a huge mistake. And IF that happens I guaranty you will see a modder strike

 

Why shouldn't we be able to sell our Art like any other Artist? People at these craft fairs all have a really good time and are supper nice to each other. They share ideas, help each other out, collaborate on projects. Teach each other techniques. Form lifelong friendships. FALL IN LOVE. Because they share a common interest. That is a Community. And the best kind of community where race, sexual orientation, religion, and nationality don't matter anymore. Because for once were not concentrating on what makes us different but what make us the same.

[DoverWolf]

Victory! Long live the Modding! Edited April 28, 2015 by DoverWolf

[1erCru]

Chesko is all good.

 

Isoku, I dont care if he figures out how to make icicles grow out of my monitor, I'll never download Wet and Cold again. I mean 5 bucks? No statement, it just felt really wrong. I dont even know if it is wrong but I'm going to trust my gut on this one.

 

SkyUi. Just disappointed. Its an essential mod. A mod like that could have made millions of dollars to.

 

The whole thing is just twisted.

 

 

[jfisha]

In response to post #24733199. #24733474, #24733594, #24733919, #24733969, #24734114, #24734584, #24734984, #24735109, #24735199, #24735449, #24735464, #24735474, #24735764, #24735829, #24736169, #24736484, #24736504 are all replies on the same post.

Elta1 wrote:

sa547 wrote: All the damage could've been averted if the powers-that-be asked for a public consultation in the first place.

Saije wrote: Stop trying to ride the white horse here.

Modders turncoated on the community with hilarious haste.

Users responded in the way that an individual betrayed will always respond.

And now that the dust is settled and the greedy have shown their true colors.

(The fact that they don't give flying f*#@ about the community, just money.)

Now that the paid modding has been vanquished and said greedy individuals have no

recourse except to accept that they were completely happy in their betrayel.

You try to paste the blame on the ones betrayed rather then the ones betraying...

Ridiculous.


I hope if one lesson has been learned from all this it is this...

People will betray each other in a heartbeat when money is involved.


The only modders who deserve any sympathy are the ones that were attacked by the

greedy capitalist pushing pissants for not standing at the side of their fellow turncoats.

Sorry if I get banned for this comment... But it needed to be said.

focusv5 wrote: In a world where everyone has a voice (the internet), you're going to get all kinds of extremes in terms of opinions, and it clearly showed over the past few days. The blame cannot be placed solely on the users as if they were all issuing death threats and spewing absolute hatred. There were of course many users that were constructive and not issuing death threats by explaining that this system could have worked if it was implemented better. Don't let the sour few spoil your opinion of the masses. I wouldn't hop on the 'pity bethesda/valve' train as a result of hearing death threats as these sorts of statements are not uncommon in nearly all avenues of life. You make absolute statements like 'the users' as if they represented everyone, there were many who were calmly involved in the discussion as well.

JCDNWarrior wrote: Change is not neccesarily good. We're talking about a hobby that many of us have put thousands of hours into. I don't think the modding community should be seen as villains in this. Especially if people wish to ascribe good intentions to Valve and Bethesda (Two companies that would probably not even exist anymore or be very small without their modding communities).

AAA gaming has been going downwards for years and modding is what keeps the spirit of gaming alive for millions of people. Messing with that by introducing money and consequentially greed, on top of a very easily abused system of Steam Workshop and more and more information uncovered about how this was planned long in advance, and there's no way that the modding and gaming communities wouldn't raise absolute hell over this.

I just truly hope that all parties learn from this. However, with monetary interests involved, I think everyone should be vigiliant that this could happen all over again, just better repacked in PR-speak than Gabe Newell's meltdown AMA.

daedriccat wrote: Lets stop calling those who wanted to keep to the TES tradition of sharing free mods as being afraid of change. That is short sighted and ignorant and the typical cry of those who wanted to profit from modding.

SirTopas wrote: Oh, horsecrap, Saije. If modding does come to an end, it will be folks like you with your pitchforks, torches, tar and feathers who end it with your demands for "ideological purity". You and your ilk have already driven Chesko, the author of Frostfall and other outstanding mods, out of the community completely. On the other hand, you, I note, have never published a mod. Again I ask, who is more greedy? The modders who have put thousands of hours and real money into modding or people like you who demand that the results of that work be provided to you for free?

Hamthaak wrote: SirTopas: You just received a kudo for this.
Saije: no offense, mate. but this kind of attitude is just what i got tired of in the last days. Who betrayed you? Who owes you (and me, and anyone else here) anything? We should be thankfull to anyone who creates mods we can use for free. THEY are the basis of this "community".

TehKaoZ wrote: ^This

phantompally76 wrote: SirTopas, what about the thousands of hours mod USERS have logged playtesting mods, providing quality control, reporting bugs and glitches, providing feedback and suggestions to mod authors? Hmmm????

Not having ever created a mod does not invalidate one's opinion or stance on the matter. Without mod users, there would be no mod authors. Don't you ever forget that.

SirTopas wrote: phantompally76, not having produced a mod absolutely does have a bearing when people are making demands about what modders may or may not do with the product of their own work.

Aavok wrote: I get what you're saying but...
A bit over-dramatic don't you think?

Azulyn wrote: Pretty sure the death threats thing is being blown out of proportion by all the white knights and butthurt. I mean, c'mon folks. You are on the internet. I'm sure you've all visited the cesspool that is 4chan. I'm sure most of the turds issuing death threats were just trolls anyway.

MysticalFlare wrote: @phantom, you don't need mod users to be a mod author. More often than not, I make mods exclusively for myself. I don't know where you got the idea that you have any authority over the author, but that sense of entitlement is pretty ridiculous.

bjornvaldr wrote: Not sure I agree with you and not sure you got the point of it all. The only people who should be demonized here are the ones who went around spamming middle finger ASCII art or harassing mod authors. Reactions such as protest banners and hiding mods were justified. Since when is protesting against something you feel is wrong childish? Don't lump everyone into the same category just because people share the same distaste for paid modding. The Workshop has been known - and is still known - for people stealing mods. People who hid or pulled their mods, while their reactions may have been a little early to do so, were justified. They didn't want people stealing their hard work and selling it. The people who pulled their mods with the idea of exclusively selling them, however, that's a different story. I won't get into that one though. You can't blame people for feeling betrayed. Sure, some people went about expressing this in stupid ways, but not everyone went around spamming and harassing. And no. No one banished anyone. The only mod authors who left were ones who didn't have the foresight to see what they were doing was going to cause a backlash. I hope they come back, but if they don't, I'm not going to beg them to do so. Yeah, it sucks they got harassed, but that happens on the Internet. I wish it didn't, but people need to thicken their skin.

asanesslights wrote: Now you're trying avert towards the users, which in fact only expressed their feelings because of sudden change. Now the gamergate journalists will make an article off this one.

LeianneG wrote: @phantompally76

"SirTopas, what about the thousands of hours mod USERS have logged playtesting mods, providing quality control, reporting bugs and glitches, providing feedback and suggestions to mod authors? Hmmm????

Not having ever created a mod does not invalidate one's opinion or stance on the matter. Without mod users, there would be no mod authors. Don't you ever forget that. "

********************** ADDRESSING THE ABOVE STATEMENT ******************

USERS who have donated their time, work and talents improving a mod -
are no longer JUST USERS ... they are ALSO contributing Mod Authors!

Sorry, but I would still be a mod author WITHOUT mod users .. as I make my mods FOR ME FIRST - and then, if I feel you or someone else might enjoy it - I choose to SHARE.

Tar wrote: Remember that this is what normally happen when change and new rules get pulled down on peoples head without any warning. This was neither the mod makers fault or the users fault, they felt they was cheated, this was all done by Valve and Bethesda for not doing what should have been done when change is on the agenda.

Anyway, some users overstepped and their actions should not be tolerated. But lets look forward and try an unite the community again, lets get this farce created by valve and Bethesda out of our system.

I understand exactly what you're talking about, Leianne, but my response would be the same to you as it was when I read a contributor to SkyUI say he didn't feel there was a community on Nexus....

"The almost 300 thousand people who endorsed your mod would disagree."