Wouldn't it be awesome if...

[hurrdurrmurrgurr]

I know what you mean about the vaults, in fallout3 and nv they have become more like giant social & psychological experiments than actual places of refuge when the bombs fell.

 

In both fallout1&2 they where more like refuges where sometimes things just hadn't gone to plan which is to be expected considering the number of year that have pasted, the last minute evacuation to the vaults as the war went critical and the natural psychological effect of relatively small numbers of people having to live their entire lives in sealed isolation.

 

EDIT: One of the major problems with the multiple ends in the fallout series is that the developers have to pick one set to continue onto the next game, that was one of the things that always bugged me about fallout2, probably made worse by that fact that the UK version was bugged and it was impossible to get the good ending for Shady Sands even if you completed all the quests to get it.

So how exactly did the NCR get started when Shady Sands was wiped off the map by raiders? (PS shady sands was founded by the people from vault 15 so the whole NCR was the result of a good vault)

 

In fact nether of two brotherhood of steel endings from the original fallout mesh with the brotherhood now.

The Brotherhood of Steel helps the other human outposts drive the mutant armies away with minimal loss of life, on both sides of the conflict. The advanced technology of the Brotherhood is slowly reintroduced into New California, with little disruption or chaos. The Brotherhood wisely remains out of the power structure, and becomes a major research and development house.

So somewhere between the current BoS and followers

The Brotherhood of Steel, under new leadership after the death of Rhombus, becomes an overzealous, techno-religious dictatorship. In 20 years, the Steel Plague devastates the newly formed New California Republic, and starts a Dark Age that could last a thousand years.

So roughly like they are now but with religious overtones and they are the major power not the NCR

It makes a lot more sense when you stop trying to get a continuity out of the brotherhood, in F1 they were gathering tech for their bunker while distrusting the locals. In F2 they were gathering tech for their bunker while distrusting locals, the locals grew in power and eventually they didn't have the manpower available to stop them so they went into hiding. In Tactics they were gathering tech for their bunker while distrusting locals except when they could be used to gather tech for their bunker. In F3 they decided that gathering tech for their bunker for centuries is stupid and starting trying to help the locals, though they still distrusted them. In F:NV they were back to gathering tech for their bunker while remaining hidden and distrusting the locals.

 

Fallout 3 is the only game where the Brotherhood of Steel has developed as a faction beyond their initial premise of former military guys in a hole with shiny toys; yet most Fallout fans didn't like it since at this point everyone expects the Brotherhood to be a bunch of magpies and any change is breaking their vision of them. It's a real shame too since I'd like the Brotherhood to at one point decide that they've got enough tech, it's time for a new objective but NMA is gonna be NMA.

[Greymane]

It makes a lot more sense when you stop trying to get a continuity out of the brotherhood, in F1 they were gathering tech for their bunker while distrusting the locals. In F2 they were gathering tech for their bunker while distrusting locals, the locals grew in power and eventually they didn't have the manpower available to stop them so they went into hiding. In Tactics they were gathering tech for their bunker while distrusting locals except when they could be used to gather tech for their bunker. In F3 they decided that gathering tech for their bunker for centuries is stupid and starting trying to help the locals, though they still distrusted them. In F:NV they were back to gathering tech for their bunker while remaining hidden and distrusting the locals.

 

Fallout 3 is the only game where the Brotherhood of Steel has developed as a faction beyond their initial premise of former military guys in a hole with shiny toys; yet most Fallout fans didn't like it since at this point everyone expects the Brotherhood to be a bunch of magpies and any change is breaking their vision of them. It's a real shame too since I'd like the Brotherhood to at one point decide that they've got enough tech, it's time for a new objective but NMA is gonna be NMA.

 

I'm probably in a minority here, but I actually really liked what they did with the Brotherhood in FO3. At least as a concept. The execution left something to be desired, but to a point I thought it was a great turn for them and fit fine within what is known about the Brotherhood. I think the thing that some people overlooked was that the East Coast Brotherhood turning defender of the people was pretty much entirely Elder Lyon's choice and we hear basically no other members of their chapter agreeing with it. They go along with it because following their Elder is what the Brotherhood does. Those who believed more in their original mission left, becoming the Outcasts (who I think ended up presented as too belligerent, being the representation of traditionalist Brotherhood views. The Brotherhood has never cared about outsiders, but they haven't hated them on general principle).

 

The East Coast Brotherhood are virtually what Veronica wanted to do with her Chapter, not counting the fact that the East Coast Brotherhood ended up too embroiled in conflict with the Super Mutants and the Enclave to turn their technology towards anything but war (because war... war never changes). Provided the Capital Wasteland doesn't end up eating them up completely, they're practically the only branch of the Brotherhood that seems like it has any chance to both survive and thrive on a long term basis.

[ItachisTruth]

The BoS in F3 were independent from the main BoS Force. They still remained in contact and good faith with the main BoS force but were forced to work independently by the choice of their elder, Elder Lyons. Elder Lyons wanted to help the wastelanders before carrying on with their mission to collect and preserver pre-war tech. This choise was shunned upon some of their members there who wanted to still carry on the legacy of the real BoS, so they abandoned and formed the Outcasts. Being split away, the BoS could not send a request for help to the main BoS force but it didnt matter because soon after they started their project to help the people of the wastes, their numbers grew to the point where their population was larger then the other BoS.

[RealmEleven]

...One of the major problems with the multiple ends in the fallout series is that the developers have to pick one set to continue onto the next game...

 

I think that multiple outcomes are what separates the first person RPG from the first person shooter. In a shooter there is only one objective and rarely more than one way of getting there. The first person RPG introduces a main quest-line that can be ignored in favour of other quests according to the agenda of the player. It is also the nature of RPGs that there can never be only one or two outcomes of a major quest-line, because it’s the differences in the choices we make that define our own individuality. Role-playing revolves around the exploration of those differences. So I think that, when planning a quest for an RPG, it is vitally important to allow for differences in temperament, and map possible outcomes such that different successes/failures in the scenario, according to different temperaments, are accompanied by consequences that are considered rewarding to the temperament concerned. E.g. glory hounds would not be interested in a bunker home, any more than a survivalist would want to draw attention to her/himself in the context of the Fallout environment. One category is rewarded by fame while the other category is penalised by it. We all know that everyone is different and that differences in temperament are legitimate differences which can dictate that what one person considers a reward another would fear as a punishment. Failing to account for such differences of temperament is why some writers of fiction run into difficulties with the quality of their work - especially when they don't have sufficient understanding of other temperaments to represent more than their own temperament in the many characters emerging from the plots in their novels. The advantage that computer driven RPGs have over novels (& the pen and paper predecessors of computerised RPGs such as Dungeons & Dragons) is that they are more often developed by groups of individuals, who can all chip in when it comes to drawing the line between what is liked and disliked by end users with various temperaments.

 

"Multithreading" a quest-line to satisfy the gaming preferences of a variety of temperaments expands the potential market for the game. This approach also ensures that a quest, by having multiple pathways, is not bottlenecked by singular elements that an unanticipated glitch or bug can make inaccessible. This ultimately makes the game more robust in the experience of the player - and is more representative of real life problems where every temperament has a preferred solution but not every style of problem solving is always going to be viable.

 

The key to making a continuation from a multi-ending scenario plausible in the context of role-play-gaming, is to have other non-player characters fill the roles left open by the player's own choice of role. So, in the transition from RPG game version 1.x to RPG game version 2.x, the storyline encompasses a group of people, any one of which may have been played by the player in the original version of the game - but no matter which one was played, the continuity is preserved because NPCs step in to fill the other roles. In fact, it is because spectacular feats are never achieved by individuals acting alone that this approach preserves the realism of the transition.

 

What I am getting at is that in the continuation of a game series, developers don’t have to pick a single outcome based on the role they think has the biggest market share. In fact, the continuation of multiple subplots and diverse characters is common practice in film and literature. In literature, for example, Frank Herbert develops a whole range of characters that continue via different outcomes from one book of his trilogy, Dune, to the next. In film, we have George Lucas’ Star Wars which, likewise, continues different characters from one “blockbuster” to the next. I see no reason why this would be implausible in the context of an RPG – especially one involving the development of 16,000+ cells with tools like the GECK. Dividing the various outcomes and their continuity between the various roles that emerge in RPG plots is simply a matter of allowing the player to fall into a specific role by outperforming the assigned NPC in the context of the role.

 

What would be really neat, I think, is that where a player chooses to simply not respond to the main quest-line, this can be allowed to evolve around the player – driven by the NPCs assigned to the various roles in the plot. This would allow the player to redefine their own role in an anonymous sense, while allowing the “major” roles in the main storyline to take on their own prominence in those of the main events that impinge on the player’s experience. In this way, continuity of major plot elements can be maintained with or without direct participation from the player.

 

But that’s just my perspective…

 

--

Tim

RealmEleven

[mdingman]

I completely agree with post # 11. Even if the Brotherhood wanted to change and become more like what the East Coast brotherhood is, i'm not sure that they have the manpower or resources to even accomplish anything significant. They're too drained from their various wars, and the West Coast Brotherhood is surrounded by NCR, which has a less-than-cordial relationship with the BoS, and probably wouldn't appreciate the "help".

 

As for the game ending/sequel plot discussion,

 

It would be better if bethesda took the approach seen in the "Mass Effect" series when it comes to endings and how they affect sequels, where the events in the latter game are dependent on the actions of the imported character from the former game. To put this in FoNV terms(strictly going by main quest terms, going through all of the side quests would take far too long and probably bore you all to death), if your player sides with the Legion, in the next game that involves this area of the US(because it wouldn't work if the next game were back in the capital wasteland or elsewhere), Caesar gets rid of Lanius(an obvious move since he is the greatest threat to Legion stability), and replaces him with your character as the new Legate. The main quest will then proceed to have you invade California to invade NCR.

 

However, if your character decided to side with NCR in FoNV, the next game has you leading NCR into Colorado and Arizona to take out the Legion(although any plan to chase the Legion through that terrain would probably end up in the NCR being successful, but at a very high cost because the Legion are so good at ambushes) for one final example, if you side with house or take the lone wolf approach, the next game finds you defending New Vegas from the NCR and/or Legion who have returned. How you completed side quests in the previous game would shift around allegiances(for example, if you had the brotherhood side with ncr, the brotherhood would support you when you went after the legion), or if you had the Khans support the Legion(or rather, left them alone because they already support the Legion), then the Legion would have greater numbers when they invade.

 

Both of these approaches have the player in a position of strength because i would like to see the player be someone with power who has to decide how to use it instead of being a nobody-turned-superman who changes the fate of everything by being there. Anyways, that's my hope for the future, because that way, all of the future games will be exactly tailored to each individual player(of course with different characters along the way) through their choices and each game can be different for everyone.

Edited March 18, 2011 by mdingman

[xxcomrad3xx]

It looks like this thread is dead, just like a lot of threads on this site -_- but... Im not sure what would happen if the lone wanderer and the courier met..probably another Apocalypse lol.. but disregarding the rest of this thread because i dont have time to read it. Ill just throw in my two cents.. personally id like to see a fully normal vault in the next game. And personally if i can be blunt, i think that the next fallout will take place in the midwest which should make for an intresting game. There is the rockies and the mississippi and greatlakes so who knows what kind of things could happen there. um heres a quote i found, which, is just some extra evidence for my reasoning::

 

Not much is known about the setting of Fallout 4 so far.When asked to give hints as to the setting of the next Fallout game,Jason Bergman (senior producer of the bethesda fallout series) said (translated from Norwegian), "You'll get no tips from me. But the Mojave Wasteland was a fun place to explore, wasn't it?" *unquote* ..... there is also a very strong norwegian presence in the midwest, i know this because im from there :) so Fallout 3=east coast Fallout=New vegas, and to me it makes sense Fallout 4= midwest. Also in the lonesome road dlc the robot ED-E side quest refrences to a vault in Detroit or Chicago?(midwest)

 

done reasoning lol.. but anyhow, the brotherhood of steel midwest chapter has never been used in bethesda's fallout series is more then likely granted they have more then likely affected a portion of the game. (if youve ever looked at enclave armor and MWBoS its strikingly similar leading me to believe there was some contact or something that lead to this.) regardless of the BoS's role in the next fallout i doubt it will be related to east or west coast BoS as the MWBoS is a rouge chapter based on the first BoS visions. Either way i have no doubt that a new fallout game will be askewed due to multiple endings. either way they will come up with something related and unrelated.. theyve been doing it forever so.. done ranting :)

Edited February 7, 2012 by xxcomrad3xx

[minngarm]

One thing that is greatly under played in FO3 is that the BoS Do still follow their original mission of securing and researching tech. Elder Lyons however has made an attempt to better the surrounding area and make ties with the locals a equal priority, and thus we have the schism in the faction. There are those who believe that the locals are nothing but vermin to be squashed or pushed aside, and went to form the "Outcast", and those that either adhere severely to the followings of the codex in regards to following the Elder, choosing not to break with tradition, and the even fewer, those that understand Lyons intentions and support his goal.

 

The mistake most fans make is in thinking that the Eastern BoS has abandoned the goal of obtaining and protecting tech, when in fact they have not. They simply are trying to spin a better image for the BoS and make greater ties to the surrounding area so that they can have a stable environment to work in and find tech.

[xxcomrad3xx]

One thing that is greatly under played in FO3 is that the BoS Do still follow their original mission of securing and researching tech. Elder Lyons however has made an attempt to better the surrounding area and make ties with the locals a equal priority, and thus we have the schism in the faction. There are those who believe that the locals are nothing but vermin to be squashed or pushed aside, and went to form the "Outcast", and those that either adhere severely to the followings of the codex in regards to following the Elder, choosing not to break with tradition, and the even fewer, those that understand Lyons intentions and support his goal.

 

The mistake most fans make is in thinking that the Eastern BoS has abandoned the goal of obtaining and protecting tech, when in fact they have not. They simply are trying to spin a better image for the BoS and make greater ties to the surrounding area so that they can have a stable environment to work in and find tech.

 

Actually i thought it played quite nicely, but realistically considering past BoS lore, the east coast BoS is not in fact doing their mission of securing and researching tech. The brotherhood Outcast, considered "evil" are not actually evil and are instead following the TRUE mission. they are the ones following the traditional BoS beliefs. They are called outcasts because they do not follow Lyons who is in fact breaking BoS traditions and cooperating and trying to help the wastelanders, so technically speaking HE is the outcast. The people in between are doing their jobs best they can, so theirs not a problem there. But BoS doesnt need to spin an image, they could care less about image, i didnt see any Join BoS Today! posters lol.. no, they had no need to focus on wastelanders, because the main issue was super mutants that they were intentionally trying to destroy because they were becoming a threat..if anything, they should have been negotiating with other factions. lyons was wrong in helping petty wastelanders so in fact they were not doing their mission like they should have been. or at least not properly.. but who knows. its all a big mess lol.. :psyduck:

[madman132]

My Lone Wanderer and my Courier would be Bros4eva. Or maybe something less stupid.

If one of them had the ability to travel across most of the former USA he'd be tied up in cleaning up the different Regions on the Way. But let's just say they could travel to the respective other gameworld like they can go to the DLC areas. The Brotherhood would catch the eye of the Lone Wanderer.

 

What will the Brotherhood do when they've reached their Goal? I mean, they pretty much have every Pre War tech. Wasn't that the Goal, to preserve the old tech?

What now? Get more Tech? There is quite a bit of tech to gather then and because the Mojave Chapter consists of massive Failures most people can get pretty much every energy Weapon without ever seeing the Brotherhood. My Courier has more Energy Weapons then the Brotherhood.

 

The eastcoast Brotherhood is more effective in gathering technology. They defeated the Enclave and now have access to some shiny post War tech. They where able to do that because of outside Help. Not only the Player Character, they also recruit wastelanders.

They could make Flyers on which they'd advertise a Deal in which one could bring them them this and that tech and receive Weapons and/or Bottlecaps in exchange. After the Events of "Broken Steel", they would run out of Space in a Matter of Months. Give it a Year and they could rebuild the Citadel entirely out of Laserpistols. Don't touch the Walls!

 

 

But then, what does the Brotherhood want? Gathering Technology that will eventually be outdated?

 

Elder McNamara seems to be aware of the dwindling Population of his Brotherhoodchapter and that it will eventually fade away, either by outside Interference or just with time.

So maybe we'll see abandoned Brotherhood Bunkers in Future Games.

 

 

 

I doubt we'll see many functional Vaults in future Games. 200 Years+ is a long time and unless there has been another social Experiment that keeps People in forever like in 101, the People would have eventually looked outside to see real Sunlight.

This has happened with Vault 15, they built a City around their Vault. Even without a Geck, People would eventually try to explore the Wasteland, like they did in 101, see the overseers terminal, they sent People out to Megaton.

 

If my Character in a future Game somehow does find an intact Vault, i'd hope they pay some attention to my appearance before making stupid remarks about just that.

You can walk back in the Vault 101 with shiny Armor and the Guy at the front Door says that he almost didn't recognize you under all that Wasteland Grit. I did a quick check and saw that i was still wearing my chinese Stealth Armor and my Gauss Rifle. Bleh.

[lquebecois]

I'm just going to mention how awful it is to have characters defined by their utter changeability according to the player used in future games (which will inevitably lead to them having fixed attributes, which will by their very nature of being only one of a multitude of options cause disdain among people who built their characters differently). I mean if my current Courier met the LW From Fallout 3 their first actions would probably involve bullets. Lots of bullets. And laughter.

[/Quote]

 

That thing exactly happen in Skyrim, when the Dragon Born meet Sheogorath (your character in oblivion).