Negative Endorsements: Do they serve a constuctive purpose?

[Gopher]

I have never given a negative endorsement. Not once. it is not that I have some ideological reason to not do so, but I have never felt the need to do so. Does this mean I love all mods? Well obviously not. But for the most part I simply avoid mods I know I will not like and remove mods that I try and do not like. But what purpose does it serve to give the thumbs down? Does it help other make an informed decision as to if the mod is for them? Or does it give the author the feedback he/she needs to improve the mod? Well lets look at the reason people give when giving the evil 'thumb of down' by looking at a mod such as FOOK. Here are the break down of negative endorsements so far:

 

1 The file did not fit in to the user's personal tastes or beliefs, etc.

 

So why did this person download the mod? I mean it is not as if it was a mystery as to what they were downloading. Does this say more about the person making the negative endorsement than the mod itself?

 

1 The user couldn't get the file to work

 

22,000 unique downloads and over 500 endorsements and one user cannot get it to work. Is that useful to you? Is that helping you decide if this mod is for you? Perhaps if 10,000 people marked it the same it might show the mod was flawed. But really have you ever seen a mod where that happened?

 

5 The file caused conflicts with the game or other popular files

 

Now this might be reasonable feedback if it said which mods it conflicted with, but really, is that a good reason to negatively endorse?

 

3 The file did not meet the user's high quality standards

 

This one is my personal favourite because it is so utterly useless that its funny. What standards? You ever go visit the profile of people who give that excuse? Do it. See what mods they have endorsed, because you will be none the wiser as to what this means. And I say look at what they endorsed rather than what mods they made, because one thing I have noticed is generally mod makers don't give negative endorsements.

 

So why do I care?

Well because mod users might casually throw out these negative endorsements in moments of frustration, but they upset the mod authors. And as far as I can see there is no net gain. If a mod is dangerous or offensive, you report it to a moderator. But if you don't like it, leave it. You don't walk up to everyone you meet and tell them you hate their hair, or cannot stand their shoes because you know it will upset them and gain you nothing. So why do it to someone's mod. Sure you may hate it, sure you may think its worthless, but they probably put some time and effort into it, sometimes thousands of hours. Why be a ass about it?

 

So why should you care?

Because the more people willing to take the risk and upload their mods, the more chances there are that the odd gem will appear. Sometimes it is the mod we least expect to go down well, that becomes the next "must have" mod for you. But imagine if that author had given up because the two mods he/she made before that were so bitterly insulted that he/she never bothered to continue.

 

Give it some thought, and give support to the modding community as a whole. Encourage, endorse, give kudos and above all, don't be an ass :)

[WastelandAssassin]

i couldn't agree with you more

 

like you, i think i never gave an negative endorsement EVER!!

why?? like you, it's because there is no point in doing so

 

i usually download mods that i think i will enjoy, and i usually do enjoy them, and if i don't i say good bye to the mod, and get on with it

no need to make someone else feel bad, just because i didn't really like the mod they made

 

the problem about such a thing, is that if you look at this community, there are about 2 million members, but so few of these are actually active, commenting members, while others are just massive downloaders of mods, and usually never say a word here

 

now, seeing as i never gave a negative endorsement, i don't know what is required for it, but i have never seen a comment like "i gave a negative endorsement", so i guess it doesn't require leaving a comment, so it may seem as the perfect option, for all of those members who just download mods by the thousands, and try to lay low (can't understand why, but i'm not here to judge anyone)

 

as for really having a reason for that system, i really can't find one

i mean, if the file isn't allowed, you report it, and it's taken down

if the file is corrupted or filled with viruses, you report it, and it's down

if the file conflicts with another mod, and you don't state which mod it conflicts with, than you don't allow the modder who made it, give support to the file, so it's not actually the modder's fault

and if you just don't like the file, say thanks to the modder for uploading it anyway, and keep your mouth shut

constructive criticism is something good, and i think that most modders will accept it, but "i don't like your mod" isn't constructive, nor is it criticism

it's just being childish, and there is really no good reason for such behavior

 

Give it some thought, and give support to the modding community as a whole. Encourage, endorse, give kudos and above all, don't be an ass :)

 

couldn't have said it better myself :thumbsup:

 

also, Kudos to you, for your awesome mods (can't believe i didn't do it before), and for your beautifully written post

Edited January 12, 2011 by WastelandAssassin

[shubniggurath]

Senseless or senseful, all ratings are subjective meanings of the particular member. If the modder knows that, she or he will most likely not be crashed into the ground by a few negative ratings.

 

But i can understand your point. Because on the other side Ratings are a nice thing to have for the ego. And many younger modders (i'm 103 years old) could easily drown in the dispear of a negative vote. And the reasons that the voter chooses should always be accompanied by a comment to clear the context of the rating. In my opinion that commentar is the most important part of the vote. Sure that's a reason why there is a comment-box in the vote-popup window.

 

And about the frustration votes: The voter does have the possibility to return her or his vote.

 

And aside from all this, a system is only as good as the people who are using it. And i din't want to insult anybody with this.

[Linmor]

I think the negative endorsement option is pointless also.

 

Why bother going back to the mod page and hitting the negative? If you don't like the mod after downloading, just delete and go find one you do like.

 

If you don't like, you are not going to endorse anyway, so the positive endorsement rating still remains effective.

When I first started looking for mods, I would sort them by number of endorsements to see what everyone else liked.

 

-- The user couldn't get the file to work

I am willing to go out on a limb here and say that 95% of the time, this is not the fault of the mod that is being negative endorsed.

 

-- The file caused conflicts with the game or other popular files

Welcome to a game based upon the Gamebryo Engine. Most conflicts can be easily resolved with the use of the tools provided. Lack of effort should not mean a negative endorsement.

 

-- The file did not meet the user's high quality standards

Then why did you bother downloading it? and you are going to complain about standards in a buggy game supported by the fans? Seriously?

[bben46]

This has been beat to death several times. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-violent083.gif

Negative endorsements do not count for anything. They are not counted for any top lists or any other thing.

 

Dark0ne put in the 3 hour delay between downloading and rating just to cut down on those who do not bother to play the mod before rating (up or down) as those were in reality meaningless ratings and served no other purpose than inflating the number of ratings.

 

No matter how wonderful a mod, their will be someone who doesn't like it for some reason. If they downloaded a mod they knew they wouldn't like, just to downrate, then they have wasted their time as it will not make any difference in the popularity of the mod.

 

We do see people who do this. They are so offended by the mod they just can't resist making a fool of themselves. Usually they eventually make some comment that gets them banned. Everyone is offended by something. I am offended by people who allow themselves to be so offended they make themselves offensive. :down:

 

I see mod authors complaining when they get one negative because it ruins their perfect record - again, no mod is perfect and no mod should have only positive ratings. I look at the ratio of positive to negative. If a mod has 100 positive and 2 negative 50:1 ratio - its probably a very good mod. If it has 100 positive and 20 negative 5:1 ratio - it likely has some serious problems. But when I see a mod with 100 positive and no negative, I wonder why. Is the author PMing any negative endorsers and convincing them to change their rating? or is the mod really perfect? Or does the author have his friends flooding the ratings? :whistling:

 

If we start removing negatives, then we will be bombarded with demands that particular negative endorsements be removed. Some may be valid, some just because the author doesn't want his perfect mod having even one negative whether it is valid or not. And they have come up with some creative reasons for why we should remove a negative. :rolleyes:

 

By having a set of canned answers we are also limiting the nasty responses to why someone is giving a negative. LIMITING, not eliminating as they are still free to make their own comment.

[Olurum]

Unless there's been newer statements I'm pretty sure Dark0ne said that the Negative Endorsements are on their way out with the introduction of the new review system (which won't replace endorsements but instead will be an addition to serve as the true indicator of 'quality' of a mod).

 

I can't seem to find a specific post but that's probably because he mentioned it over Mumble during the Amnesia event. He also mentioned the Nexus Wiki idea then which has now been implemented... so maybe he's still working on it.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Olurum

[Eiries]

I made a post regarding this a while back... the way I see it, if we really need a negative system (I find that observing the overall number of endorsements does a good enough job regarding the quality of the mod,) the least you can do is require a user to post a comment. And to get rid of the ones that don't matter, specifically

 

http://www.tesnexus.com/images/icons/thumb_down.png the file did not meet my high quality standards

http://www.tesnexus.com/images/icons/thumb_down.png after playing the file it doesn't fit in to my personal tastes or beliefs, etc.

 

If someone has such a problem, they're more than free to express it. What happens after that depends on what they have to say.

 

Quoth the ToS:

 

The commenting, endorsement and rating system is available on Nexus sites to provide users with:

 

• an interface to offer positive feedback on the functionality of the file in question based on the author’s initial intentions
  
• the ability to offer constructive criticism on aspects of the file that could be improved
  
• the chance to ask for feature requests and discuss such requests with other users of the site or the author
  
• the ability to ask for help in troubleshooting problems with the file in question
  

 

Because of the fact that a user does not have to leave a comment, the negative endorsement system really doesn't fulfill any of the above.

[Gopher]

This has been beat to death several times. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-violent083.gif

 

I am not exactly aiming this at the moderators and the system, so much as at the people that make the negative endorsements. I am trying to foster a more constructive response from modders, even modders who didn't like the mod in question by explaining to them that it is at best a useless gesture, and at worst yet another downer on the community at large. Just hoping to change some attitiudes :)

[Yossarian22]

I for myself prefer, if people use negative endorsement instead of writing some crap in the comments, because negative endorsements are more or less anonym, so I don't care nor have to react to it.

[Gopher]

I for myself prefer, if people use negative endorsement instead of writing some crap in the comments, because negative endorsements are more or less anonym, so I don't care nor have to react to it.

 

I prefer negative comments. Either the person makes a valid point and I can address the issue, or they reveal some misunderstanding that I can help them resolve. And the fact that they took time to write a comment shows at least some effort.