Are people optimistic about the West/US/Europe?

[Nadimos]

The lending and borrowing is kinda becoming an old game. It is silly. What more can be said? I dont know. Asia will rise. Thats almost for certain i would say, even tho there still is a long way to go and eu and us will settle in whatever role fits. Maybe less imperialistic and more diplomatic as it is like everyone is in one boat and poeple have quick access to information. So it tends to level itself out i think.

 

Call me mad, but im actually optimistic about the planet earth.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Nadimos

[Sinophile]

I believe that America at the very least will have much stronger competition in the coming years. Not only from China, but from India and the European Union. Something that a lot of people(or t least Americans, as I cannot speak for others who live outside the US.) do not realize is the amount of power that Britain, or as Lyndon LaRouche calls it, The British Empire holds economically in the U.S. market.

 

A man named Robert Rodriguez one came to my school, he stated that,"If the US did no shape up, that we would become roadkill". While in college, I've met many foreign students who came from less privileged countries. None of which have the educational opportunities that American offers(for example, 25% of Americans have at least a bachelors, as compared to around 10% for most Asian countries). Meanwhile, Americans are going Ape**** because some guy who wasn't born in the US wants to go to College.

 

 

Last, if there is anything that is marking the downfall of Western Civilization, it is the fact that people such as Sarah Palin can be as popular as they are.

[marharth]

Ron Paul can not be more right on foreign policy, and I would vote for him any day over Obama... But the thing is Ron Paul also doesn't realize the major threat of corporate power.

 

Oh I wouldn't be too sure about that , he is very much against corporate lobbyist and he wants to end the Federal Reserve and restore the powers it has stolen from Congress back to Congress .That would be the biggest blow to Corporate power possible.

That is true, he just wants a different way of fixing it then I do.

 

Ill admit that I am pretty far left, and Ron Paul is a true Conservative (almost no real conservatives are left).

 

I would be happy to have a argument with him, and I am sure his system would work out fairly well (better then our current one for sure).

 

Its just that Ron Paul is a bit to the right, while I am more to the left.

 

We both want the same thing, we just want to get there in a different way.

[grannywils]

I admit to only having read some of the posts in this thread. I think that I get the point that is being made by most posters. What I miss seeing is some posts by our students of history, such as Aurielius or SilverDNA or Buddah even Balagor. How about some realists like Vagrant0? I know there are lots more of you. Forgive me for not remembering all of your names. We have some great and astute minds on this site.

 

I think just by all of the posts I am reading that it is pretty obvious that we are in the midst of yet another pendulum swing here. This is history in action. We are living it, so we expect that "our side" whatever that side may be, should be the "best" and should be winning. Well, it just doesn't really work out that way. Get out the dusty old history books.

 

It is not so much a matter of being optimistic or pessimistic. It is more a matter of being realistic and learning how to go with the flow, and perhaps learning to help the flow go along in a more positive direction; rather than scattering it to the four winds.

 

Let's get over this playing the blame game stuff. Let's try to keep our planet whole long enough for the next pendulum swing. That way the next generation can do this all over again.... Hmm?

 

 

[Keanumoreira]

 

Let's get over this playing the blame game stuff. Let's try to keep our planet whole long enough for the next pendulum swing. That way the next generation can do this all over again.... Hmm?[/size][/font]

 

As much as I agree with you Granny, the sad truth is that it will never stop.

 

This kind of finger pointing, although at the most basis or just simple harmless view points, has been happening for centuries and centuries on end. Although it is nice to imagine that our world can be a bundle of wrapped up joy with people always agreeing and seeing the error of their ways, it's just frankly impossible right now.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Keanumoreira

[Harbringe]

I admit to only having read some of the posts in this thread. I think that I get the point that is being made by most posters. What I miss seeing is some posts by our students of history, such as Aurielius or SilverDNA or Buddah even Balagor. How about some realists like Vagrant0? I know there are lots more of you. Forgive me for not remembering all of your names. We have some great and astute minds on this site.

 

I think just by all of the posts I am reading that it is pretty obvious that we are in the midst of yet another pendulum swing here. This is history in action. We are living it, so we expect that "our side" whatever that side may be, should be the "best" and should be winning. Well, it just doesn't really work out that way. Get out the dusty old history books.

 

It is not so much a matter of being optimistic or pessimistic. It is more a matter of being realistic and learning how to go with the flow, and perhaps learning to help the flow go along in a more positive direction; rather than scattering it to the four winds.

 

Let's get over this playing the blame game stuff. Let's try to keep our planet whole long enough for the next pendulum swing. That way the next generation can do this all over again.... Hmm?

 

That's why I do at least 1 to 2 of these things each day to keep me sane

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBKk5A4zBeM&playnext=1&list=PL41E33E6667ED4CD4&index=2

[RZ1029]

Let's get over this playing the blame game stuff. Let's try to keep our planet whole long enough for the next pendulum swing. That way the next generation can do this all over again.... Hmm?

Or we can start burning now and laugh as our children and grandchildren scramble to put it all back together. I vote we go with my idea, but I also don't plan on having kids, so the future doesn't really matter as much to me.

 

Ok, seriously though, as far as fixing things go... I'm not really sure things can be fixed without cataclysmic failure. You know, kind of one of those epic failures where there's nowhere to go but back up? Again, I'm not the best at doing the whole optimism thing, but still... Yeah, anyways, it's one of those things where people will continue to blame each other as we spiral downwards, essentially killing ourselves in the process.

 

Then, once things bottom out and all confidence is lost in our society/economy, we begin to rebuild behind some figure we promote to lead us, probably some random charismatic individual or an economist who calls for all sorts of reform that basically reworks our entire economy.

Edited January 19, 2011 by RZ1029

[Aurielius]

I admit to only having read some of the posts in this thread. I think that I get the point that is being made by most posters. What I miss seeing is some posts by our students of history, such as Aurielius or SilverDNA or Buddah even Balagor. How about some realists like Vagrant0? I know there are lots more of you. Forgive me for not remembering all of your names. We have some great and astute minds on this site.

 

I think just by all of the posts I am reading that it is pretty obvious that we are in the midst of yet another pendulum swing here. This is history in action. We are living it, so we expect that "our side" whatever that side may be, should be the "best" and should be winning. Well, it just doesn't really work out that way. Get out the dusty old history books.

 

Well if there ever was an invitation to comment I guess this is that, I think that I will draw up my response into three parts: Social, Economic and Military.

 

First off I am neither optimistic or pessimistic but pragmatic about the continuance of western power hegemony because we first off need to determine what facets of that hegemony are possible to be continued to be propagated. I believe that the social aspects of western culture are expanding and insinuating themselves in every corner of the world. Mass media and it's pervasive effects on even the most backward third world countries are self evident. The social ramifications of western culture that have filtered in to all but the most closed societies (North Korea being the notable exception) so in that respect we (the west) are still in the ascendancy.

 

The second part of the question is the west's economic dominance, that I believe is diminishing due to the interactive nature of the world economy, but that is at it should be. but for the time being meaning the remaining portion of this century there is not an adequate replacement for the western model at this time. I agree with Kendo that China is one of the rising economic powers but the effect that they will have on the world economy for the foreseeable future is limited due to their false monetary standard which prevents the yen from becoming a replacement for the dollar.

 

The third part of the question is continuance of military dominance of the US, since three quarters of the world is water, projection of power requires a deep water navy which no other nation is remotely capable of challenging the US lead in this area. Next comes technological lead in which in terms of aviation and combined land forces, the US is still a quantum level above all other competitors. Now this can change, if another nation is willing to invest the required monetary and scientific resources but it will take at least 20 years to catch up and that would presuppose that America flat lined it's military budget which is extremely unlikely. The remaining issue is the will to use the force that the west has available to it, the lack of that will is something that is not in evidence by the facts on the ground at the moment.

 

If i had to make an empire comparison I would say that the US is roughly comparable to the Roman Empire during the reign of Hadrian, it has become aware of the impossibility of continual expansion and is now drawing the border limits of where it wants to maintain it's power. But even during Hadrain' time (as now) it would have been foolish for opponents to underestimate the power that can be put into play. However all power has it's basis in the will of the people to project and to maintain it, I am unconvinced that this will has evaporated at this point in time. Lastly all empires in the past have failed militarily because the cost of empire exceeded their economic ability to maintain it. There are doom sayers that say we ( the west) are in decline but again the vibrancy of ideas that are still evident in the west makes me feel this is not true.

[grannywils]

Yay Aurielius. That is what I was waiting to hear. Athough we rarely agree on current day politics, when it come to history and it's impact on today I do not know anyone who has a better grasp on reality or with whom I can usuall agree more.

 

I would only add this. The Roman Empire was exactly what I had in the back of my mind when I brought up the whole pendulum swing thing. I know that it lasted an awfully long time and that it did have its ups and downs, but did it not eventually destroy itself?

 

In more current times we have had empires that pretty much ruled the world (such as the British for a period of time as one example). Again didn't they pretty much shoot themselves in the foot.

 

I mean no insults to any of these empires, who may have also done great things while in power, but eventually, as you have said Aurielius, in not so many words, things just get out of hand. I'm not sure if it is power corrupting or things becoming too top heavy or the outsiders becoming a larger faction than the insiders; or perhaps many of the insiders become disenchanted with being on the inside. But somehow the pendulum begins to swing the other way. It just seems inevitable.

 

I too am a pragmatist, although I think of myself more as a realist. I am certainly no pessamist, for somehow I still manage to believe in the spirit of mankind in spite of, or maybe because of it's flaws. We have been doing this for a very long time, and I believe we will be doing it for an even longer time to come.

 

 

[Feltmarskal]

I'm not either. China is the rising star now. Within a decade, they will be ones calling the shots for the rest of the world.

I don't think so... Chinese people are slowly and yes i mean slowly, beginning to realise the oppression and censorship of the government and will one day be as democratic as the West. Also with the rise of the Chinese economy and more wage to the workers, will mean the downfall of China in the future. In the end it will be to expensive to produce in China and the production will change to other countries, such as Thailand, Vietnam, India and maybe even Africa.