Who are the real terrorists?

[marharth]

I would like to make a topic about our modern day enemy, terrorists. We chase after them no matter what, we take away personal freedom and rights to "protect" against them.

 

I am going to try to make this short, hopefully the discussion can expand on itself.

 

Let me start with saying the reasons we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

The reasons we invaded Afghanistan might be justified by some, I never liked the war but ill keep going.

1. The Taliban WAS helping Al Queda.

 

That's all I can think of for that... Now does this mean we should go attack them just because we got bombed? The point of terrorism is to spread fear through violence. The people who bombed us are WINNING by being in a war with us. We did what they wanted us to do, be afraid and attack back. To be afraid and take away freedom and rights...

 

Now why did we invade Iraq? This is a much more serious issue...

1. Bush claimed they were making weapons of mass destruction, or already had them. It was proven they were not even CONSIDERING making them.

 

2. Bush claimed Saddam Hussein was working with Al Queda, which is 100 percent false.

 

3. To "free" the people from the rule of Saddam Hussein. This IS a valid reason, but its not a imperfect nations job to free other countries. If the USA was close to perfect I would fully support the act of nation building and non violent take overs.

 

4. To gather intelligence on terrorist groups. This is also a false reason, since there were no major terrorists groups in Iraq strongly associated with Al Qeuda.

 

The real answer to both of the above things is the following...

1. Help military contractors get richer.

2. Make money off foreign oil.

3. Help Israel wipe out Iraq for not wanting to work with them.

 

 

Guess this isn't going to be so short then... Now onto the topics title.

 

We invaded the countries in attempt to wipe out terrorism, what have we really done? The people of Afghanistan DO NOT want our help anymore. They are happy as they are now, and they are siding with the Taliban to get us out!

 

Think about that for a second, innocent people are siding with the Taliban, simply to get us out of their country. Yet we still insist we are helping them?

 

 

We kill innocent people everyday because of the war, and people still support the wars?

 

That being said, I am calling every single person who supports the war right now a terrorist. Just because your on the side of the "good guys" doesn't mean you really are a good guy. I am not saying the other terrorist groups are not bad, but the USA is the biggest terrorist group in the world now.

 

 

Discuss?

[WastelandAssassin]

wow, that is quite insulting to read such a thing

 

now, i should point out that i am not an american, and have never been there

still, calling the US army terrorists is a bit far fetched, don't you think??

 

i don't know where you get your information, but America and Israel never obliterated Iraq for any reason

it just never happened

 

however, setting aside what you have said, the main question of this debate is a very big question, but also a very good question

 

i can't think of one definitive answer to this question, though

in my opinion, the original terrorists were a group of religious fanatics, that started interpreting their holy writings with false masseges

how do i know these are false?? because these writing have existed for hundreds of years, and this is the first time such messages are being spoken of so widely (at least for what i know)

 

now, don't get me wrong, i;m not saying that terrorists are only muslim

in fact, it's wrong to say such a thing

living in Israel, i can tell you that one of our biggest problems isn't the terrorist organizations in countries near us, but the people who live amongst us

there are so many jews in Israel, that get money from the country, only to hurt us when we need peace the most

they are violent, both in opinion and force, and are taking long steps that will eventually destroy the very reason why Israel is still existing

 

another example, for instance, is something i saw on the news, a rather long time ago

it was a christian priest, that called to his followers to come and burn copies of the Quoran

i don't know about you, but such a step seems to me like pure ignorance, and it makes him just as bad as the terrorists

 

i can't say i support "the war" like you wrote, or any war for that matter

but the fact remains that if we won't fight, we will be destroyed

a good friend of mine is very optimistic in his beliefs about global peace and such

but even after hearing what he had to say, which made a lot of sense, i still don't think this world can even begin the process for such peace to happen

 

as for the american war, i can only state my mis-informed and information-lacking

but if i were to guess, i would say that the US can't retreat now

i think that retreating now would show that the war was for no good reason

how could you explain to the families of all those that have died, that this was all for nothing??

i would think that if the US retreated now, this could get as far as a civil war, and even if not so far, the civil unrest would probably be deadly for the US, and all it's allies

 

believe me, i would like to believe in peace, and i would love to see global peace, but i have no faith in humanity reaching for such a goal, when i haven't seen a single good step towards it, that wasn't ripped to shreds by people of a different opinion

[marharth]

wow, that is quite insulting to read such a thing

 

now, i should point out that i am not an american, and have never been there

still, calling the US army terrorists is a bit far fetched, don't you think??

 

i don't know where you get your information, but America and Israel never obliterated Iraq for any reason

it just never happened

 

however, setting aside what you have said, the main question of this debate is a very big question, but also a very good question

 

i can't think of one definitive answer to this question, though

in my opinion, the original terrorists were a group of religious fanatics, that started interpreting their holy writings with false masseges

how do i know these are false?? because these writing have existed for hundreds of years, and this is the first time such messages are being spoken of so widely (at least for what i know)

 

now, don't get me wrong, i;m not saying that terrorists are only muslim

in fact, it's wrong to say such a thing

living in Israel, i can tell you that one of our biggest problems isn't the terrorist organizations in countries near us, but the people who live amongst us

there are so many jews in Israel, that get money from the country, only to hurt us when we need peace the most

they are violent, both in opinion and force, and are taking long steps that will eventually destroy the very reason why Israel is still existing

 

another example, for instance, is something i saw on the news, a rather long time ago

it was a christian priest, that called to his followers to come and burn copies of the Quoran

i don't know about you, but such a step seems to me like pure ignorance, and it makes him just as bad as the terrorists

 

i can't say i support "the war" like you wrote, or any war for that matter

but the fact remains that if we won't fight, we will be destroyed

a good friend of mine is very optimistic in his beliefs about global peace and such

but even after hearing what he had to say, which made a lot of sense, i still don't think this world can even begin the process for such peace to happen

 

as for the american war, i can only state my mis-informed and information-lacking

but if i were to guess, i would say that the US can't retreat now

i think that retreating now would show that the war was for no good reason

how could you explain to the families of all those that have died, that this was all for nothing??

i would think that if the US retreated now, this could get as far as a civil war, and even if not so far, the civil unrest would probably be deadly for the US, and all it's allies

 

believe me, i would like to believe in peace, and i would love to see global peace, but i have no faith in humanity reaching for such a goal, when i haven't seen a single good step towards it, that wasn't ripped to shreds by people of a different opinion

I didn't say that American and Israel did anything to Iraq, I am simply stating that Iraq did not want to trade with Israel and that would have been one of the reasons for the invasion.

 

I think that you are misunderstanding what a terrorist is, it has nothing to do with religion at all. A lot of terrorist acts a caused by a misinterpretation of religion sure, but the word "Terrorism" has nothing to do with religion.

 

I also think you are making the terrorist groups look big, the main enemy of the US right now is WAYYY less then 1 percent of the Muslim population. Compared to the world population the number is EXTREMELY tiny.

 

The citizens of the USA are being hurt economically by the war without any positive effects, a huge percentage of the USA population wants to withdraw from the war. People are rioting in the US to GET OUT of the war, if we got out of it people would be glad, there is a 0 percent chance of anything as large as a civil war.

 

Sadly enough, the people fighting there did die for nothing. As bad as it seems its the truth.

 

The strongest weapon a terrorist group has is a RPG, we have RPG's, battle choppers, jet fighters, nuclear weapons, over 100 times the number of troops...

 

Not to mention that the area major terrorist groups are in is a much smaller area then the USA.

[JimboUK]

I thought it was obvious what the US and its allies are up to. Take a look at a map of the region, note where they've invaded and in which other countries they've established bases. Right in the middle is Iran which is now surrounded.

[Aurielius]

That being said, I am calling every single person who supports the war right now a terrorist. Just because your on the side of the "good guys" doesn't mean you really are a good guy. I am not saying the other terrorist groups are not bad, but the USA is the biggest terrorist group in the world now.

Discuss?

 

Discuss? This polemic cries out for factual refutation, screams an invitation for a flame war, to say that it is insulting is an understatement.

[marharth]

That being said, I am calling every single person who supports the war right now a terrorist. Just because your on the side of the "good guys" doesn't mean you really are a good guy. I am not saying the other terrorist groups are not bad, but the USA is the biggest terrorist group in the world now.

Discuss?

 

Discuss? This polemic cries out for factual refutation, screams an invitation for a flame war, to say that it is insulting is an understatement.

Why is that insulting? If someone considers facts insulting that's not my issue.

 

If people want to have a flame war here it will get locked I suppose, I do not want a flame war I want to discuss it.

 

"the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear"

 

We are killing innocent civilians in the middle east for political and ideological reasons. We use mass media to make people fear a EXTREMELY small group of radicals that on the other side of the world. That is the exact definition of terrorism.

[WastelandAssassin]

well, thanks for clearing that up

but like i did, you didn't truly understand what i was saying

 

i didn't say that terrorism has anything to do with religion

that isn't my opinion, but it seems to be much of the public opinion that i get to hear (which is quite sad, i have to say)

 

as for what a terrorist truly is, i don't think anyone can truly specify this

but whatever the case, maybe the terrorist organizations are quite small, but when they infiltrate a country, they can do much more damage than a whole army (and i think recent history has proven just that)

 

as i said, i had very little knowledge of what is happening in the US, but i am very glad to hear that most people would love to end this war

the thing is, if so many people are against the war, and the war seems to have done it's part, i wonder why it's still on

i wish i had more information, but i'm afraid that here in Israel, we live in our own little bubble, not knowing about what is happening around the world (unless it is related to how we are embarrassing ourselves in the eyes of the world, which we seem to do quite often and all too well :wallbash:)

 

it's nice to be able to hear what is truly happening around us, not by reporters and censorship, but by real honest people, speaking their mind freely

and i would like to wish all of the US soldiers out there all the best, and may they come home safely

i'm going to be in the IDF quite soon, so all i can do is hope for this conflict to stop, before another generation is caught in an endless war, with so many people dying for no reason

[marharth]

well, thanks for clearing that up

but like i did, you didn't truly understand what i was saying

 

i didn't say that terrorism has anything to do with religion

that isn't my opinion, but it seems to be much of the public opinion that i get to hear (which is quite sad, i have to say)

 

as for what a terrorist truly is, i don't think anyone can truly specify this

but whatever the case, maybe the terrorist organizations are quite small, but when they infiltrate a country, they can do much more damage than a whole army (and i think recent history has proven just that)

 

as i said, i had very little knowledge of what is happening in the US, but i am very glad to hear that most people would love to end this war

the thing is, if so many people are against the war, and the war seems to have done it's part, i wonder why it's still on

i wish i had more information, but i'm afraid that here in Israel, we live in our own little bubble, not knowing about what is happening around the world (unless it is related to how we are embarrassing ourselves in the eyes of the world, which we seem to do quite often and all too well :wallbash:)

 

it's nice to be able to hear what is truly happening around us, not by reporters and censorship, but by real honest people, speaking their mind freely

and i would like to wish all of the US soldiers out there all the best, and may they come home safely

i'm going to be in the IDF quite soon, so all i can do is hope for this conflict to stop, before another generation is caught in an endless war, with so many people dying for no reason

The thing with the US (and a lot of other governments) is that they are completely corrupted with money. This is why the war is still on, that's the only reason.

 

Now about the country infiltration thing. They wouldn't be able to fit in at all, a huge majority of the terrorists in the groups we are fighting do not know English well, if they even do know English. Mix that with a radical ideology and they will snap before they can get their stuff done.

 

Also to everyone else, please don't think when I say "the USA" or "Israel" that I mean the citizens. I mean the governments.

[ginnyfizz]

That being said, I am calling every single person who supports the war right now a terrorist. Just because your on the side of the "good guys" doesn't mean you really are a good guy. I am not saying the other terrorist groups are not bad, but the USA is the biggest terrorist group in the world now.

 

Discuss?

 

That isn't just provocative, but since you are effectively imputing a criminal offence to any number of people, potentially libelous.

 

 

I thought it was obvious what the US and its allies are up to. Take a look at a map of the region, note where they've invaded and in which other countries they've established bases. Right in the middle is Iran which is now surrounded.

 

Good point, jim_uk. And as much as people may anguish about the morals of the situation, the fact is that whilst the US and allies are glaring balefully over both borders at Iran, the Iranian regime is less likely to stunt and do something like block the Straits of Hormuz and the oil supplies. I suspect that people would be no more pleased at having the oil supplies held to ransom than they are about the war.

[Harbringe]

I thought it was obvious what the US and its allies are up to. Take a look at a map of the region, note where they've invaded and in which other countries they've established bases. Right in the middle is Iran which is now surrounded.

 

Well I' am surprised you pointed that out given your leanings ,but your absolutely right.The displacement of forces is the true indicator of intent and given that it takes time to establish this deployment ,it begs the question how long ago were these decisions made .Doesn't anyone find it questionable that all the talk is about what a problem Iran is and American forces just happen to be in the right places of encirclement to be able to deal with it.This sort of thing doesn't happen over night its the result of long term planning.

 

Why Iran ,it's oil.Iran is selling oil in non US dollars and the US can't allow it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwuojqT2fzE&feature=related

 

This might help some in understanding the Iranian situation ,mind you title might be overstated ,well at least we hope so.

Edited January 24, 2011 by Harbringe