Imperial Manor Seeks Modeler

[wizardmirth]

That's too bad about the counter reseting, but I see what you mean. Maybe you can create a new interior cell that is not player-accessible and move the bodies there. Or would the player have to enter this room at any time for this to work?

 

As far as the bandit packages, I use multiple 'wander' and 'find' ones with random percent conditions. Since these are all based in different parts of the manor they randomly go looting different things in different interiors. Then once they're all defeated, you can get the staff to loot and disable the bodies one at a time and per area, putting everything on the bandits and everything they looted from the manor in a single container for easy access. The only downside is them not being able to get any dropped weapons and shields without picking up any other weapons or shields that might be on display in the same area or in containers. So I just place them at various locations outside the house and once enabled the random packages kick in and they all enter the manor regardless of which package is currently being used.

 

I don't know how to make an NPC use object type furniture at any location but there is one package I found in the CS that might help you if you look at it: MS46CrestbridgeCampSit1. Maybe you can replicate it, but the key points I think would be type: find, flag: must complete, object: furniture, and value 0. Also note that there is no location set in this package and I've personally not seen this package in action, so maybe it doesn't even work in the vanilla game. You can also sort the CS packages by target and look at all the ones that use furniture objects though most of these use persistent location objects of one type or another. Or if "current location" doesn't work, you could try moving a marker to their feet and going off that.

 

Let me know if you get it working. I might try it out myself at some point and would love to be able to give some of my companions the ability to do this. Other than that I'm fairly good with packages (tons of trial and error) so if there's anything else you need let me know.

[Surilindur]

Thank you. I will check that package. My 'trials' with the furniture package have so far only resulted in errors. :P I absolutely love Extensible Follower Framework by Expired, the ultimate Skyrim follower management mod and would love to make somehing even a bit like it for Oblivion. But keep it simple. I have not used any follower management mods for Oblivion, though, but it seems CM requires custom followers and Companion Share and Recruit has had some issues in the past. And I want to make my own one with simple command feature through a button press with no spells. Also universal recruiting option with an optional resurrection feature for making all interesting antagonists followers. With voices and lip sync from game files. And it works! I just need to make a portal work and make the sitting feature happen. So thank you for the help. :)

 

According to what I read over at TES Alliance forums and the Construction Set wiki, player indeed has to enter the interior cell after it has been marked for reset for the reset to take place. But would resetting also reset all items in it? That is why I find it difficult to make the reset happen - especially with repeated attacks. Resetting player home interior sounds suspicious. But if player has to enter the cell, I cannot use an inaccessible dummy cell. So it is something I need to think about a little more. Of course it would be possible to use some other cell, like The Oak and Crosier, but player would still need to enter it one day. Finding a public interior player enters regularly might be difficult.

 

I shall ask you if I run into more issues with AI packages. Like I said, my trials have usually resulted in more errors than success. Perhaps I will one day learn to be better with different AI packages. Hopefully.

Edited July 13, 2015 by PhilippePetain

[wizardmirth]

Just to be clear, no cells get DEFAULT/GLOBAL GAME RESET unless the player enters it first? So for example the vanilla alyeid dungeon "Vilverin" will never get automatically reset unless the player first enters it so that it can 1) be marked for reset and then 2) timed for the default reset accordingly?

 

If that is indeed the case then I have a partial role-playing solution that will work at least for my mod: There can be a small mausoleum or crematorium type room somewhere in the Manor where the bodies get moved to. Player will then have to switch on the furnace from outside and then enter the room to clear the ashes at which point the deletion process should be completed. Yes, still a bit of a stretch I know, but at least this way there can be a bit of storied reasoning to get this to work.

 

One other question about this though: If the bodies get moved into a dummy cell that the player never even enters then how much save-game bloating can this probably cause in the long run? In my case we are talking a minimal of 12 bandits, but possibly more if there is another angle pursued in my mod. Also I don't know if it makes any difference, but all these bandits are already dead by the time the reset is needed and not just disabled - not sure if that matters with reducing the bloat.

[Surilindur]

But if the player does not enter it, there is no reason to reset it. If player enters it, there is a reason to reset it and it will be reset after the reset time has passed. I think. Hmm... I have the thread at TES Alliance bookmarked that mentions PlaceAtMe and actors if you want to see it:

 

http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/topic/4297-placeatme-for-npc-summoning-spell/

 

The link to CS wiki does not work, as do not most other CS wiki links, but the information is still in the wiki. The search feature is a handy one. Here is the PlaceAtMe page (with the discussion tab, too):

 

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php?title=PlaceAtMe

 

And here is something about cell reset (link below). But that page says player does not need to enter a cell. Well. Now that I think of it, it does make sense. :P Then again, other sources say player needs to enter it. Whyyyyy is it so complicated? Maybe it would be best to test it oneself. I think I need to do that before I start making some overly complicated system for it. Hmm.

 

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php?title=Cell_Reset

 

So perhaps I was not correct, after all, and player does not need to enter it. But I am not sure about anything reset-related anymore. At least not before I have tested it myself, if I somehow manage to do it, which is probably unlikely.

 

I think someone said vanilla Oblivion gates use PlaceAtMe too. Also, it was mentioned somewhere that both actors spawned by a spawn point and actors created by PlaceAtMe are 'dynamic' (both have mod index thing of 'FF'), so they would not be completely different types of things. At least getting rid of the created actors through cell reset should be more than enough, if I have understood correctly, but... well... now it just needs to be figured out how the cell reset actually works. :(

 

Sorry. It seems I should have read more about it. Or from multiple sources. Now I need to rethink my castle mod attack feature again. I, too, have an attack feature planned. But it will be repeated attacks with configurable intervals and attacker count, so that is why I would like to make sure the PlaceAtMe'd actors get deleted properly. Someone might have twenty bandits attack daily, so the amount of created actors might get quite high in the end. Twelve does not sound too bad in comparison. :)

Edited July 14, 2015 by PhilippePetain

[Striker879]

The flaw in the logic used by the author of the Cell Reset wiki article is that both GetCellDetachTime and GetCellResetHours are OBSE functions not vanilla game functions.

[Surilindur]

But they are only used for testing, I think. To check how the values change as a result of various actions, like entering and exiting the cell. But I am not sure. The grand question is whether player actually needs to enter a cell for it to reset, so that will the thing work like:

1. An actor is created by PlaceAtMe, so it is 'dynamic' (FF), and it is then killed
2. That actor is moved to an interior dummy cell
3. ResetInterior is called on the dummy cell
4. The actor in that dummy cell is 'erased' upon saving the game (not saved again, so becomes inexistent)

Or is it necessary for player to enter it again, if the things are erased only when that cell is loaded the next time. Which sounds silly and unlikely, now that I think of it. Especially if the game just drops 'reset' data out when saving, not when loading a cell. Hmm. :wacko:

 

Edit: And apologies, wizardmirth, if the contents of the thread have gone off its initial scope. As it definitely seems. Especially if you do not use PlaceAtMe. If you just place actors in the CS, they should not be an issue. This is exactly what happens when I start thinking. Or more like when I start thinking and start writing before I have finished thinking.

Edited July 14, 2015 by PhilippePetain

[wizardmirth]

Some very interesting reading in those links. And 4 years later no closer to a definite answer. My feeling is that the player needs to enter that cell and reset it. Even if its a dummy cell the game engine might not do a world reset but on a cell by cell player-initiated level. But how would you be able to test this without checking as the player which would reset it anyway?

[Surilindur]

Maybe with an NPC that has a script to, upon its death, move it to an interior and reset it. Then checking if its form ID still works. I think 'prid <formID>' or something like it selects the reference. Need to check it.

 

I also ran into some old threads I had started to ask about PlaceAtMe, and the responses there seem like using PlaceAtMe is not really that bad, and the game deletes the unnecessary NPC data just like everything else unnecessary. PlaceAtMe'ing thousands of NPCs (or anything else) when it could have been avoided is dumb, though. Or at least that how I understood it. Here is one thread about it:

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2504504-a-question-regarding-placeatme/

 

Maybe it is just me being a bit paranoid or overcautious and spawning actors is just fine. It is just that I would not want to be the one responsible for causing savegame bloating or such amd eventually destroying people's saves. If it is even possible, if the game handles the removal of redundant data just fine. Having read a lot of bad things related to 'savegame bloating' and the dangers of PlaceAtMe has probably just made me suspicious.

Edited July 16, 2015 by PhilippePetain

[wizardmirth]

So a cell never resets unless the player visits that cell (that means the Imperial Dungeon stuff never gets reset?). But, the cell will never reset automatically if the player keeps visiting before the default time expires - you have to use a script. Furthermore, moving actors to a dummy cell and reseting it does not require entry by the player to fully delete all the references? That last one seems wrong to me.

If I'm not too brain-fried from all this and then updating and play-testing over the weekend, then maybe I have something pliable here... I just updated Imperial Manor with a lighting and deco overhaul plus bandit siege quest. This quest comes with the option for the staff to loot and remove the bodies once all attackers are dead. Right now I'm doing this by moving them to another cell in the Manor and letting the player know via message spam that bodies will be purged the next time they enter that cell.

 

Ultimately, I would like to simply move the bodies to a dummy cell and reset without any interaction from the player but I'm still not convinced that this works.

[Surilindur]

You can somehow try to test it. I am a bit confused myself, too. But if player first is in the Imperial City dungeon, then leaves it and stays away longer than the reset time, the cell should reset, right? And if player does not need to enter it again (if reset is done by the game just dropping all change data regarding that cell by not saving it again), just having the cell reset by ResetInterior or by waiting for the reset time to pass before re-entering the cell should be enough for it to be reset... right? I think it makes sense. If player does not need to enter the cell again for the game to remove the change data (which makes sense, as otherwise every cell would need to be re-entered for it to reset).

 

This is confusing. I will also check out your manor when I have a chance. It sounds interesting. :)