Topfree equality

[Vindekarr]

Frankly Im torn between saying I completely agree and saying I think you are making a really really senseless point.

 

Frankly I think laws about exposure of the chest region should be gender nonspecific. I do however firmly believe that both genders should be required to wear a shirt unless at a beach, gym, or on the individual's own property.

 

The reason being the where I come from, walking around without a top on is just asking for skincancer-it was fourty-six degrees celcius yesterday in my suburb, no shirt indoors? some relief from heat, no shirt outdoes? you'll be sunburned in moments.

 

The other thing I would state is that even besides the obvious health aspects of wearing pragmatic clothing-(you dont want skincancer, do you? well stay topless and you're gonna get it)-but the other concern is simple ethics: wandering around naked is an extraordinarily selfish action. Like screaming and shouting at people in public, or playing your MP3s at maximum volume. For the absolute most part, men and women alike have absolutely hideous bodies. Waving them around is like shoving a Beaver's armpit into someone face and telling them to have a sniff.

 

What you're doing is simply exposing others to something ugly, abnoxious, foul smelling, and horrible-not to mention something they really dont want to see. It's selfishness, forcing others to view you such, but also arrogance, assuming people have any interesting in you, yet another worthless walking mound of man-flesh.

 

If I wanted to stare at ugly piles of meat all day, I would work at the fishmarket. If your body was somehow pretty enough that it deserved being shown to the world-perhaps due to body art-then by all means display it, but if you're simply a fat ugly jo(anne) who thinks Gym is the guy down the road, then no, keep it covered, for all our sakes.

 

That's why I also find women-and men-in extremely revealing clothing disgusting. I have no interest in the foul smelling lump of meaqt that is your body, take it elsewhere or cover it up, and spare us the stench and hideous sight. It's not about decency or protecting little childrne-for gods sake all those kiddies have to do is look down in the shower-it's about simple curtosy: you're 300 pounds, orange with fake tan and have no muscle tone, in short you resemble a walrus, and nobody wants to stare at that.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Vindekarr

[RebelOConner]

in some country, it's possible for women to be topless.

i read an article, years ago, about a woman, arrested in Spain because she was topless in the subway.

she argued men did, so she could too.

and the justice agreed. something allowed to men can't be forbiden to women, it's in the law about gender equality.

i think it's also possible in France, even if i never heard about something like that.

i don't know about other european countries.

[Nadimos]

I have to say if men get aroused all the time, then it is the mens problem, not the womans problem and the men have to learn to.... relax and generally learn to live with it.

 

Whats supposed to be wrong with nudity?

 

Now generally speaking, i may not particular like how somebody looks, if during the summer in a park they (older man/woman) drive by on a bike sweating and well you know, haha, but never would i go at it like some of the police: "Hey stop, you are violating the law. "

 

How f***ed up is that, please?

 

If someoone wants to go naked, let him/her go naked.

Im not offended by it and what a strange thought actually.

 

Nobody needs to be offended.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Nadimos

[DeadMansFist849]

Nadimos, that's a good point.

 

Exposed feet, for example, might make someone uncomfortable or offended. Should we force everyone to wear closed shoes or socks with sandals? I don't think so.

 

Of course, we wear clothes for many reasons. We invented them to keep our bodies safe from the elements, so obviously most of the time we should wear clothes, and I've no problem with a requirement that we keep our lower anatomy covered up.

[SilverDNA]

Last time I did mention socialisation and morals to raise children as reason.

I left it there because i think I have an example where to see where you all are heading and

if someone would pick this up to explain something that is equally important to see as the the simple

question topless or not equality, but it may be a bit of topic so I will need to explain this

.... later unless you are one who gets the point fast.

 

About I was 20 nearly 20 back years now sitting in a street coffee (Italian with ice bar) in summer as this little story happened to me and my friend

and I regret now what I did back then but I will explain later why ...

 

Behind my friend was a man sitting and next too him a woman with two children wanted to sit down and relax.

The two children had about the age of 3 or 4 a little girl with blonde hair and 5 to 6 a boy with equally blond hair.

suddenly very shortly after they settled to pick their orders, the boy started to ask his mom A question:

"Mummy why has the man at the other table only two fingers and scared hand?"

The Mother responded:

"Ssshhh, you cant question that loud!"

The the waitress came to get the orders and the women asked,

if inside there would be some ice for the children so they could look and decide.

The waitress said yes and took the children with her.

Immediately after the children left she turned to the man and asked him politely if

he could leave his two fingered scared hand under the order card for the rest of

the time in the caffeè and reasoned it disdurbes the children.

He replied simply and calm "No," it is a part of me."

now the women argued that is is not an appetizing sight to look on a

hand like that and he could please for the children's sake cover it.

still calm the man replied

"No, I will not cover it, because I don't like too and i don't want to it is such a nice day."

at this moment the children came back.

the women stood up and packed her belongings and went

obviously enraged inside the caffeè to sit there with their children.

 

My friend and i did nothing.

 

I'm ashamed now that i did nothing because after having worked and talked with a lot of

disabled persons for about 2 and a half years which changed my view on such situations.

The children s where only curious and a bit afraid on how this could happened to a man

the mother on the other hand ...

well i don't want to express my feelings towards her openly now.

I would today applaud the leaving of that woman if I could turn back time.

I think the body is natural even if someone is disabled and i believe now that

it was more open what a child did than that what the mother did.

 

now for my 2 cents questions

What would you do if you see a man with bare chest and a lots of scars or a women that had a breast amputation because of breast cancer bare chested on the beach and such a conversation would happen?

Would treat them the same or are you more afraid of the disability ?

Would it be for the same reasons as you would do with a non disabled person?

Why is normality best?

What are good morals and bad ones in socialising children?

Where do you draw the line between a good moral and a bad one ?

Is it good to for society to raise children to aim for normality Or to have them ask question out of curiosity?

What has this to do with topless equality?

And why is it not good to express yourself like who you really are, or like to be in public openly?

 

You may answer the last one by reviewing my 1st post in this topic more closely.

 

Naturally you may answer silently for yourself ...

Edited February 2, 2011 by SilverDNA

[ginnyfizz]

Hehe, well as a fully paid up member of the Holy Tribe Of Coppertops, I tend not to run around in the sun starkers, or even topless. Good gracious no, not without at least a half inch thick coating of factor 50 suncream anyway. BTW the danger from hang-free large breasts is greatly exaggerated, unless you are doing your streak Lady Godiva style on horseback, in which case they bounce a bit too much. Nonetheless, when certain of us were campaigning against the hunting ban, there were certain spirited lasses amongst us that did not let that stop us... :whistling: Certainly got a lot of new recruits for the cause...

 

Seriously, although I believe that there is a time and a place for exposure, and on the street/in the shopping mall/workplace is not, IMHO, it. That being the case, I don't have a problem with nudity on the beach and think we need to get over this seeming fear of the human body - Balagor, I have not been to Denmark, but I have been to Sweden which appears to have a like-minded attitude towards nudity at the beach/shores of the lake and such. That is how I feel it should be.

 

I certainly don't see why you would need a gym toned body to expose your flesh, if you do not like the way someone looks, then don't stare and don't judge them. SilverDNA makes this point in a most eloquent manner.

[Lisnpuppy]

I must say that I can agree with the majority of these post in part or whole. However, Vindekarr....I guess your...venom surprises me. Society and its rules are what they are. However were it the norm in a place to be nude...I wouldn't care so much. There is beauty in everyone and the definition of beauty changes in time, culture and in the eye of the beholder. To refer to the human form as a meat sack is really beyond my ken. How is being naked as one was born...such a horrid abomination as you seem to be saying? As long as someone isn't dancing and bouncing their ...whatevers in my face I could care less.

 

If I lived 300 years ago I would no doubt have been considered a goddess with my ruben-esque figure and lilly white skin. Its all relative.

 

So yes do I find some forms attractive more than others...yes. Do I think there is a time and place for nudity..yes. I don't think it fair that women are judged by different standards. However I do realize that the notions I have on nudity and sexuality are born from my upbringing and culture.

 

Honestly...nudity is only as big a deal as someone makes it. Who am I to judge?

[Balagor]

Just like with the mods here, I will say with the bodies; if you don´t like an obese body, don´t glare, move on. @Silver you got a point, you actually got an independant thread, I think. @GinnyF, you should try our westcost one day. You are allowed to use a bra :P

[Aurielius]

Just like with the mods here, I will say with the bodies; if you don´t like an obese body, don´t glare, move on. @Silver you got a point, you actually got an independant thread, I think. @GinnyF, you should try our westcost one day. You are allowed to use a bra :P

I second Balagor's first two points, the third..well I am sure Ginny has some windswept Irish rock ledge that she prefers.

[Herculine]

Being a "Rubenesque" or "full-figured" gal myself, I must say that keeping things under control and covered up for many of us is as much due to practical necessity as to modesty. Sure it feels great sometimes to be free of the harness, but there are other times when it's really handy to have the thing on.

 

As for men always being aroused if we were always topless, if our being topless was an accepted norm in our society then said arousals would be uncommon since seeing a woman's bare chest would be a commonplace thing. A large portion of physical arousal is psychological.

 

And for the guys I have to say yes, please be decent enough to cover up when in the general public. What's good for the Gander is good for the Goose. Most public places have a "no-shirt, no-shoes, no service" policy for good reason. Especially in places like restaurants or the grocery anybody being half-naked just isn't sanitary.

 

But if it were legal and practical for everyone to be topless all the time then I say that means EVERYONE, not just folks who have been to the gym or were just naturally blessed with high metabolisms and svelte figures.

 

I do think Lehcar's dad should have handled that situation far more delicately. While I suspect his intention was to attempt to prepare his daughter for the perils of womanhood, doing so in an accusatory and hostile manner was totally uncalled for. I'd say that likely did more harm than good.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Herculine