F4 Mod question: Difficult with main character now talking?

[Tony the Wookie]

The voiced protagonist in Mass Effect worked because Bioware can write to a decent standard, Bethesda cannot so you're going to have to listen to your character talk like one of Bethesda's mentally ill NPCs. As things are now you can at least pretend to be a normal person in a world full of one dimensional oddballs, add a voice and you could well end up roleplaying as one.

 

Your logic totally eludes me...

 

If Bethesda is truly as bad as you say at this, then why would you be worried about them trying something different? If you hate that aspect of their games, then why would you care if they change it?

 

If they take a bad aspect and make it bad, then it is still bad... But if they take a bad aspect and try something new, and it actually works, then you have just made the game much better.

 

Who knows, maybe actually having voice actors talk to each other instead of having characters talk at you might make things seem more natural. Maybe I am the only person in the world who found it awkward writing one sided conversation for Fallout 3, but I find things flow so much better when writing for Fallout 4.

 

 

 

Like I said, maybe I am the only person in the world who finds it easier to write banter as opposed to a 1 sided conversation, but if there is even a 1% chance that it could make a better game, isn't it worth taking a chance?

 

If you hate that part of the game sooooooo much, then it isn't going to ruin your game to try something new.

 

 

 

Think of what could be... The future is going to be amazing because we chose to make it that way.

[JimboUK]

 

The voiced protagonist in Mass Effect worked because Bioware can write to a decent standard, Bethesda cannot so you're going to have to listen to your character talk like one of Bethesda's mentally ill NPCs. As things are now you can at least pretend to be a normal person in a world full of one dimensional oddballs, add a voice and you could well end up roleplaying as one.

 

Your logic totally eludes me...

 

If Bethesda is truly as bad as you say at this, then why would you be worried about them trying something different? If you hate that aspect of their games, then why would you care if they change it?

 

If they take a bad aspect and make it bad, then it is still bad... But if they take a bad aspect and try something new, and it actually works, then you have just made the game much better.

 

Who knows, maybe actually having voice actors talk to each other instead of having characters talk at you might make things seem more natural. Maybe I am the only person in the world who found it awkward writing one sided conversation for Fallout 3, but I find things flow so much better when writing for Fallout 4.

 

 

 

Like I said, maybe I am the only person in the world who finds it easier to write banter as opposed to a 1 sided conversation, but if there is even a 1% chance that it could make a better game, isn't it worth taking a chance?

 

If you hate that part of the game sooooooo much, then it isn't going to ruin your game to try something new.

 

 

 

Think of what could be... The future is going to be amazing because we chose to make it that way.

 

 

Yeah Bethesda's writing is that bad, they've shown time and again that they cannot write convincing dialogue or create characters with any depth to them, Fallout 3's writing is atrocious and Skyrim's isn't much better. If Bethesda had made a special effort with the writing this time around they would have said so, they haven't, all we've seen is jetpacks and Minecraft. I've explained why awful writing and a voiced PC is a bad idea, I'm not explaining it again.

 

who cares if they change things up with the player? That isn't why I play the game, so even if the RUIN it, it doesn't matter as long as I can explore.

 

Then maybe RPG's aren't for you? long term fans of the franchise are going to want an RPG, not a walking simulator.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

Then maybe RPG's aren't for you? long term fans of the franchise are going to want an RPG, not a walking simulator.

agreed

[Tony the Wookie]

I don't want to play an RPG, I want to play Fallout.

 

...and not the one from the 90s

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

I don't want to play an RPG, I want to play Fallout.

and now we see why we cant understand each others perspectives. we both want something different. me and many of the others want to have an RPG Fallout you couldnt care less about RPG you just want to shoot things and let the game handle most of the other stuff.

[Tony the Wookie]

 

 

I don't want to play an RPG, I want to play Fallout.

and now we see why we cant understand each others perspectives. we both want something different. me and many of the others want to have an RPG Fallout you couldnt care less about RPG you just want to shoot things and let the game handle most of the other stuff.

 

 

You assume too much.

 

I am more interested in the building aspect of the game, I don't really play shooters all that much. I want to go around and gather supplies and build up an unbreakable fortress and take on the most powerful enemies that game can throw at me and watch them crumble at the brilliance of my creation. I want to play it kind of like I would a game of Civilization or Sim City or Total War, which are the kind of games I play way more than shooters.

 

If this game looked like just another Fallout 3, I wouldn't be interested enough to bother modding it and may or may not play it, who really knows. Though, if this game looked like another Fallout 1, I know for sure I wouldn't play it, because that kind of game was good 20 years ago, but is too much of a grind for me to want to play in the year 2015 when I only have a small handful of time each week to commit to a game.

 

Fallout 4 looks kind of like it has a Minecraft / The Sims hybrid side to it, minus the theme and art styles that make those games unplayable to me. I am hoping Bethesda gives me the freedom to play it like a game of The Sims, but in an actually interesting context, and I get to go out and do things and gather stuff for the reason of helping my people.

 

I guess kind of like The Walking Dead, where you are trying to help your people survive, and you must go out and gather stuff in the harsh wasteland so that the people back home will have what they need. Then when you start building up a good base and start a farm, you can be more self sustainable without needing so much from the Wasteland, but then you have to take on tougher and tougher challenges that threaten your home.

 

That is how I want to play the game. That is something I haven't really seen pulled off on the scale Bethesda is known for offering, and it excites me.

 

 

 

It is something new and different, it isn't what you consider and RPG, but I am glad about that. The future excites me far more than re-hashing the past over and over and over again.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

It is something new and different, it isn't what you consider and RPG, but I am glad about that.

... that is an RPG... the bare bones definition of RTS RPG games. so you want something like XCOM crossed with Age of Empires II crossed with Minecraft styled building elements merged into an RPG open world with amazing graphics with a Fallout theme thrown on top. so why the hell does a speaking protagonist have anything to do with this? you want it to also be story driven. where as others namely myself are aware that Bethesda isnt all that grand on story driven games and would rather they focus on what their good at, which is create amazing open worlds, writing up their lore (which by the way i am still waiting until they decide to add books like the ones in the ES series that'd be cool) and adding a lot of cool stuff to play around with. then give us the ability to change it to our own style and way. i view Bethesda as that really cool nice kid at the end of the street who owns a ridiculous amount of legos and invites everybody over to goof off with the.

 

 

though i have to say that now you finally laid down a better detailed explanation of what you want i can understand your stand point a lot better. to be honest now you dont sound anywhere near as ridiculous as you have been coming across. you do have a very respectable opinion that i kinda share.

[Tony the Wookie]

Having a voiced protagonist gets Bethesda further away from the idea of 'customize your own pen and paper rpg type character' and basically simplifies an area that really weakens Bethesda games.

 

If you have too much customization and no grounding, then you basically end up with The Sims, a game without passion or context.

 

You can customize a world, you can customize a player character, and you can customize a storyline. I don't think you can do all 3 with no limitations without losing the depth. You have to choose 2 and put limitations on the third.

 

 

 

As a writer trying to make custom characters to interact with a videogame character, it is very unrewarding and empty to have to write things generic to fit any kind of player character imaginable. To have to design to the lowest common denominator, the most boring commonality that is possible from all the possible player characters someone can make is just dull.

 

Taking away the moving target and letting the NPCs and the vast interesting world (which is what Bethesda does best) interact with an actual personality basically lets the world shine brighter at the expense of the character (which in my opinion is incredibly boring anyways).

 

Having a voice to the player character gives the game that context for all the things I could be doing out there in the world. Without that kind of context you have The Sims, which is not a fulfilling game.

 

 

Having no personality to the player character makes for dull reactions, dull writing, that is what I believe. That is why I believe Mass Effect has much better dialogue. I think you are looking at it the totally opposite way when you say Bioware can pull off a voiced character because they can write dialogue and Bethesda can't. I think Bethesda can't write dialogue because they are afraid to nail down any points in the character to work off of, which is what makes Bioware successful.

 

 

Nail down the weakest point so that the other points have something solid to pivot around.

[Tony the Wookie]

From what I have seen, this game is going to be NOTHING like what makes Mass Effect what it is. It is pretty obvious that Bethesda isn't trying to be Bioware just from looking at the emphasis on being able to collect literally EVERYTHING in the world to put to use in custom weapons and creating custom settlements.

 

The settlements alone shows that this is a game about mass customization and infinite possibilities and not anything like Mass Effect, which is a beautifully done 20 hour storytelling experience with very limited customization.

 

Bethesda is just finally ready to step away from Fallout being TES with guns and make it something truly new, a totally different type of storytelling then you or I have ever seen before. It isn't a copy of Oblivion, and it isn't a copy of Mass Effect...

 

 

 

 

It is customized non plot based build anything and try to make it thrive gameplay like you would expect from games like The Sims of Civilization, but with the open world exploration and gathering and quests that is actually what Bethesda does best.

 

They haven't taken a step toward Bioware or TES, but they have stepped out of the line completely and are on a totally new track.

 

It is now less about customizing a character who goes out and discovers who he/she is in this vast wasteland, but it is more about what you can create. Less about what IS and more about what CAN BE.

 

 

 

The worst thing about 'do anything build em up sandbox games' is that there isn't anything to do with the vast towns or empires you build once you make them amazing.

 

The worst thing about Bethesda games is that they keep human interaction so broad to fit so many different kinds of possible player characters, that you just get the bland least common denominator of what fits everything.

 

By adding in this one single element of Mass Effect like style you are bringing in more of a human element to the exploration of the world, interactions with all the interesting characters, and building of this new customized creation that is YOUR Fallout 4 world that looks nothing like MY Fallout 4 world.

 

 

 

 

From my perspective, the player character is the most boring element in ANY video game. A video game should be more like reading The Hobbit and not Bram Stoker's Dracula, it is about exploring the vast world of experiences and not a character drama. (those happen to be my favorite two books growing up, so I'm not discrediting either style)

 

By nailing down certain elements of Commander Sheppard, Bioware let characters like Wrex and Tali and Captain Anderson really come alive by having an actual set point to banter with as opposed to writing while aiming at a moving target.

 

I am willing to sacrifice character customization to make the world around me more dynamic and customizable. I want the player to be the set point, the common ground that all the other customization revolves around.

 

 

 

 

This is not Bethesda stepping away from what they do best, because character dialogue was never what they did best. This is Bethesda taking their weak point and nailing that down so that all the stuff they actually do best such as customization and open world exploration and multiple ways of surviving in this world can truly shine to their fullest potential.

 

I only came back to modding because of how excited I am for this game. I love Mass Effect, I would love to work for Bioware because they inspire me more than anyone, but this game will be nothing like Mass Effect except for having the same whipped cream on top. One game is a chocolate milkshake with whipped cream on top while the other game is a cherry pie with whipped cream on top.

 

 

I will quote myself from earlier, because it sounds like nobody bothered to read it before judging me and labeling me as just another 3rd person shooter gamer.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

I think Bethesda can't write dialogue because they are afraid to nail down any points in the character to work off of, which is what makes Bioware successful.

actually they fail at it because they dont hire writers. they just throw someone on hand onto the task and slap a 'writers' label on them.

 

Bioware though does hire dedicated writers.