Skyrim with 2 independantly usable weapons?

[fore]

I don't follow the Skyrim discussion on this site very closely (time will tell). But today I came across an article that wrote about 2 independantly usable weapons in Skyrim. Now thats something I'm really get exited about :smile:

 

How can this be implemented? Several blended animations (like right arm, left arm, rest of body, depending on wielded weapon)? And will we still be able to use Blender?

Is there any other information available about that?

[AllanOcelot]

Arent youa god of animations ;-)

 

Ive no idea how it will be handled, but rest assured, if anyone can mod it, Its our community.

[LHammonds]

I do know they are using Havok Behavior to "blend" animations together. I don't know exactly how they are going to do the animations but I would have to guess that they will use some kind of "mirror" so that you develop the animation in one hand and if the weapon is in the other hand, mirror the animation from the center of the body.

 

The animation probably will not be directly attached to the weapon other than just by weapon type for what is equipped.

 

We probably won't know until AFTER the game is released.

 

It is also unknown as to how much support we will have at game launch. We know there will be a "creation kit" but will they include the 3ds max plugins to create the models? Unknown. One would think that a name-change from Construction to Creation might mean something more than just in-game modification of assets but also include the "creation" and use of new assets. One can only hope. Also, if they do release a 3ds max plugin...what version would they release? Max 9, 2010, 2011? If they release a 2011 plugin, I would be able to use it for the 2011 products I have. At that point, the tables would be flipped where Blenderheads would be going to Maxers asking for help converting and exporting their Blender models. ;)

 

I am almost certain they won't have Blender plugins because they only use 3ds max. If they did include Blender plugins, that would be one heck of a hug from that company showing their support for modders. But I'm not holding my breath on that.

 

LHammonds

[AllanOcelot]

I have to disagree.

While beth enjoy the community mods, They wont go as far as ot say `here have a plugin - sure we will hold your hand and guide you to make your own creations,'.

The geck is something...diffrent, While allowing the community to indeed add and change the base game, adding things such as new guns or ingame items had to be figured out by the community.

 

Basicly, the told us `sure, you can play with our toys, but we are not giving you those cool lego bricks we use,'

and fraknly , I enjoy that approach. The LAST thing I want is skyrim to be flooded with `I made a pig.....,' model from kids, no thank you.

 

If your making a mod at this present time - you INVEST time and effort into it.

 

as a p.s - can we end this whole blender vs 3dmax thing? Its getting tiresome?

In my own opinion- 3dmax does what blender does, but better......but it also comes with a nice price tag....so enjoy.

ive used both, Prefer blender, Always have, probbably always will.

Both have their ups and downs to be honest.

 

I hope Beth do however release an updated tutorial set with the construction/creation set like they did with the geck, that would be awesome. :thumbsup:

[LHammonds]

I have to disagree.

What exactly are you disagreeing about? I did not say I thought they are going to release plugins.

 

The LAST thing I want is skyrim to be flooded with `I made a pig.....,' model from kids, no thank you.

Oh, I see. An elitist attitude.

 

If your making a mod at this present time - you INVEST time and effort into it.

And I suppose you'd rather go without any tutorials from the developers or community...so you can INVEST your time in what you create...breaking your head open on your desk trying to figure out all the crappy binary numbers that affect how an assets works in-game? Were you around when the community was 1st trying to figure out how NIF files work? Do you realize how many talented people left the community after figuring out so many of the NIF details but became aggravated to the point that they walked away to avoid being physically ill over trying to figure this stuff out?

 

As one who creates tutorials to help this community get past troublesome areas of modding, I will have to disagree with you on this one.

 

as a p.s - can we end this whole blender vs 3dmax thing? Its getting tiresome?

Blender vs 3ds max thing? What were you reading? My comments on the matter had NOTHING to do with Blender vs 3ds Max but what plugins would be available first.

 

During the development of the NIF plugins, the amount of what could be done with NIF files jumped around from Blender to 3ds Max simply because of the people that were working on the plugins. I think the 1st community plugin was for 3ds max...then Blender developers started creating a plugin and Blender development kept going strong and at one point was a more capable NIF plugin than max and we always saw people with one tool or the other asking for help because of the plugin differences. Nothing to do with the tools whatsoever...just the capabilities of the plugins.

 

There has been absolutely NOTHING said about what format the files will be in and since they say it is not the Gamebryo engine, we can expect it won't be Gamebryo NIF files. If Bethesda does not provide a plugin or API documentation, we certainly won't be hitting the ground running like we have with Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas. It will go back to the dark age of just creating texture replacers until the model format can be reverse engineered, hacked and butchered to allow model changes and replacers. That is NOT something I look forward to...but feel free to enjoy the day when modding goes back to the dark ages.

 

LHammonds

[AllanOcelot]

Seriously.. LHammonds.

I respect you and all. But maybe its best if you re-read my post and stop thinking everyone is out to get you.

 

Im not going to even bother responding to some of those childish points.

I hope you have the maturity to understand.:confused:

[baduk]

There is nothing childish about what LHammonds is saying. I think you are totally out of line. :mad:

 

If you really respect him then you should do a better job of showing it.

 

I hope we never forget about all the pioneers whos hard work has made modding easy. Now we have the luxury of focusing on the art rather than being bogged down in the technical stuff.

 

It is somewhat uncomfortable for me to read your first post hailing fore as a "god of animation" although i think he is extremely helpful and everything.

 

I have also felt rather embarassed by your overly praising posts about some stuff i posted about. I am very new to modding and have only meager contibutions to the community under my belt.

 

Its ok to be enthusiastic about your own accomplishments or those of your peers but lets keep it in perspective.

 

I dont know what it was like during the dark ages of morrowind modding, i got here in late 07 and didnt even try modding to begin with untill late 09.

 

Please read through this thread that i enjoyed reading about early modding for fo3 in late 08. Beth used a different nif version for fo3 than for oblivion and it was insanely harder to make stuff than it is now.

http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/82738-fallout-modelling-mini-tutorial/

The people at niftools had built up an extreme level of expertise by then and they were able to update the nifscripts very quickly.

 

It also helps to read through various older threads on the niftools forum. Here is an example.

http://niftools.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=307

 

Now on topic, there was legal limitations preventing beth from releasing export scripts or documentation for the nif file format since they were under a contract with gamebryo. Since this new engine is a inhouse setup there is no such limitation. They may even release a max plugin and I feel pretty confident that they will release at least some form of documentation that would greatly speed development of blender scripts.

[fore]

I'm REALLY sad that my post was the start of this personal kind of discussion. And Allan: I can't follow your argumatation in ANY way. Read LHammonds post without any possibe prejudice, and you will see that it all makes perfect sense. We are modders, and have so many FUN things to do ...

 

Going back to my original questions, I am surprised what LHammonds said. "Havok" behavior? So far I strongly believed, that Mocap is the way to do animations. Seeing what havok/ragdoll does to unconcious characters I can't believe that havok can provide or support any natural movement. And even blending 2 animations doesn't seem logical: the WHOLE body supports each hands fighting move. Overlaying 2 (possibly mirrored anims) would simply look strange.

 

Right now I can only imagine an extension of what we already have today for simple attack anims (not the power attacks), just independantly executed by 2 mouse buttons: each animation has an intermediate point where it can be "interrupted" so that another (any other) animation for the other side can be performed.

 

But probably I'm just not creative enough. Does anyone know of good approch for another game?

[AllanOcelot]

Seriously

my original post is fine, your all taking it over the bloody top!.

Why make an argument when I am stating my opinion, the post was typed up at one am.

 

As for all the great people that made it possible to even add new content to the game, I should know, ive been lurking the nexus sites since 2007 for gods sake. The only reason I got an account was to give something back and interact with the community. Did not expect a small minority to bring an argument to the board.

 

In my post I state my opinion, maybe not clearly, and maybe not in a formal manner, but you are all reading it as if im bashing the tools we have had to work for. You read like, half the post and give up.

So here are my points.

 

- I Hope that The team of skyrim Do NOT include a 3d program to edit mesh's.

This is due to the fact that this will create floods of new models, mostly useles. Nothing against that, but at the moment you know if someone has got a new item into lets say fallout, they had to learn a new skill set to do so, the content is less likely to be rubbish.

 

- I belive that the creative suite that the team will relesase should also have a tutorial to follow, such as the one provided for the F03 GECK.

Whats wrong with that!?

 

- I say that if your making a mod, you invest time and effort. This is again a refrence to point one, Stating that mods that are made in five minutes, wihle they can be great, the vast majority shall be rubbish.

As for claiming I am an elitest, whats all that about? because I dont want 4chan mods cluttering the place ¬¬

 

- As for hammonds comments about my blender vs 3dmax debate, `what comment are you reading, I never even mention anything like that,' or something similar. Man, the last half of your post is completely about it. And at time of reading it stated

At that point, the tables would be flipped where Blenderheads would be going to Maxers asking for help converting and exporting their Blender models. ;)

I was ont refering to ONLY this point but the community in general.

 

Now, I must apologise to Fore, My post was meant only to add discusion, but its obvious that we have issues in this community when one is to post their opinion, not state anything as fact and get slanted.

 

If LHammonds wants to talk more about this, he should pm me, so we can sotp this public petty fight.:rolleyes:

 

[ub3rman123]

(Re-railing the thread)

 

Is it possible they might make multiple animations by having a separate animation for each limb? That or they might find some way to have all weapons use the same animation.