Trouble With NPC AI's

[bryman1970]

First of all, i'll start with my load order and the mods i'm currently using:

 

 

Active Mod Files:
00  Oblivion.esm
01  Jog_X_Mod.esm
02  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.2.1]
03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]
04  TamRes.esm
05  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]
06  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]
07  Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]
08  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm
09  Better Cities Resources.esm  [Version 4.9.0]
0A  Lamps of Oblivion Master.esm
0B  HorseCombatMaster.esm
**  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]
**  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]
0C  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.4]
0D  DLCShiveringIsles.esp
0E  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.1]
0F  Better Cities .esp  [Version 4.7.0]
10  TamRes.esp
**  LoadingScreens.esp
11  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
12  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.2]
13  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.2.1]
14  Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp
15  Symphony of Violence.esp
16  AmbientTownSounds.esp
17  MIS.esp
18  MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp
19  Atmospheric Oblivion.esp
1A  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.2.1]
1B  WindowLightingSystem.esp
1C  AliveWaters.esp
1D  AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp
1E  AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp
1F  Dangerous Waters.esp
20  ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp
21  Lamps of Oblivion.esp
22  RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp  [Version 1.6.1]
23  Reset the Blood Decal Variable.esp
24  Street Gangs.esp
25  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.2.2]
26  Crowded Cities_Open.esp
27  Crowded Roads Revisited.esp  [Version 1.1]
28  Immersive Travelers.esp
29  FF_Real_Thirst.esp
2A  DarNifiedUI Config Addon.esp
2B  Streamline 3.1.esp
2C  Adonnays Classical Weaponry.esp
2D  Adonnays Elven Weaponry.esp
2E  Explosives.esp
2F  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]
30  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]
31  FF_Real_Thirst, Cobl.esp
32  Cobl Tweaks.esp  [Version 1.44]
33  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
34  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]
35  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]
36  Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]
**  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
37  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
38  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
39  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
3A  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
3B  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
3C  Mart's Monster Mod - Friendlier Factions MMM+Fran.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
3D  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
3E  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
**  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
3F  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
40  Creature Diversity.esp
41  kuerteeWanderingEncounters.esp
42  FineWeapons for OOO.esp
**  RustyItems for OOO.esp
**  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]
43  Better Benirus Manor - Helping Hands.esp
44  Better Benirus Manor.esp  [Version 4.71]
45  Better Benirus Manor - AN Patch - Natural.esp
46  Castle_Dunkerlore_V1.esp
47  (DC) Sutch Reborn.esp
48  Sutch Reborn Spawn Patch.esp
49  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp
4A  Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp
4B  Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp
4C  NPCs Alive - Bandits.esp
4D  NPCs Alive - Beggers.esp
4E  NPCs Alive - Faregyll Inn.esp
4F  NPCs Alive - Goblins.esp
50  NPCs Alive - Imperial Legion Foresters.esp
51  NPCs Alive - Imps.esp
52  NPCs Alive - Orges.esp
53  Nascosto Isles 3.esp
54  All Natural - Nascosto Isles Weather Patch.esp  [Version 2.0]
55  Region Revive - Lake Rumare.esp
56  Solace.esp
57  OOO-Sutch patch.esp
58  thievery.esp
59  thievery - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]
5A  Valenwood Improved.esp  [Version 1.01.0]
5B  Villages1.1.esp
5C  Village of Lily 2.0.esp
5D  VOILA.esp
5E  VOILA - Soldiers of Empire.esp
5F  Cyrodiil Travel Services.esp  [Version 2.0.7]
60  24HrArenaAliveV2.esp
61  Arena District Alive.esp
62  Knights.esp
63  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1]
64  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]
**  Mart's Monster Mod for OOO - Knights .esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]
65  GuardsofCyrodiilRedux.esp  [Version 1.10]
66  Blood&Mud.esp
67  Blood&Mud - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]
68  AFK_Weye.esp  [Version 2.2.COBL]
69  Rumare-AFK_Weye Patch.esp  [Version 2.0]
6A  Shadowcrest_Vineyard_COBL.esp
6B  Shadowcrest_Vineyard_GuardCOBL.esp
6C  ShezriesTownsMaster.esp
6D  GoC_ShezriesTowns_Patch.esp
6E  ElsweyrAnequina.esp
6F  ElsweyrAnequina - Races HGEC-Robert.esp  [Version 1.2]
70  BeyondCyrodiil-Camps.esp
71  ElsweyrValenwoodImprovedPatch.esp
72  Improved Imperial Infrastructure.esp
73  road+bridges.esp  [Version 4.6]
74  NRB4+Vineyard Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
75  Feldscar.esp  [Version 1.0.8]
76  Vergayun.esp  [Version 1.0.6]
77  Faregyl.esp  [Version 2.0]
78  Faregyl+Anequina Patch.esp  [Version 2.0]
79  Molapi.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
7A  PTMudwater.esp
7B  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts.esp
7C  West Roads.esp
7D  Fort Akatosh Redux.esp
7E  FortAkatoshRedux-NewRoads&Bridges patch.esp
7F  III-RoadBridgesPatch.esp
80  NRB4+RR Patch.esp  [Version 2.1]
81  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]
82  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]
83  Bag of Holding.esp  [Version 1.5.0]
84  DS Less Predictable Respawn.esp  [Version 1.1]
85  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp
86  Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.esp
87  Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX.esp  [Version 1.2]
88  Respawning Varla & Welkynd Stones.esp
89  ScriptIcon_Replacer.esp
8A  Enhanced Vegetation [125%].esp
8B  Quest Award Leveller.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
8C  Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp  [Version 2.1.0]
8D  Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp
8E  RealisticFatigue.esp
8F  RealisticHealth.esp
90  RealisticForceMedium.esp
91  RealSleepExtended.esp  [Version 2.5]
92  EnchantmentRestore.esp
93  EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp
94  RenGuardOverhaul.esp
95  WR Villages Addon.esp
96  JM's Bar Fights mortal.esp
97  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp
98  Duke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrows Alert The Target.esp  [Version 7.1]
99  Duke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now.esp
9A  Duke Patricks - Fresh Kills Now Alert The NPCs.esp  [Version 4]
**  Item interchange - Placement.esp  [Version 0.76]
9B  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
9C  AMB.esp
9D  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]
9E  Cobl Races - Balanced.esp  [Version 1.52]
9F  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp  [Version 4.9.0]
A0  Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp  [Version 4.7.0]
A1  Better Imperial City.esp  [Version 4.9.0]
A2  Better Cities - Thievery.esp  [Version 4.8.0]
A3  Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp  [Version 4.8.1]
A4  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2.1]
A5  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition FPS Patch.esp  [Version 4.9.0]
A6  MRP - Loading area.esp
A7  NoMoreIFoundMessages.esp
A8  SPAWN.esp  [Version 0.3]
**  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp
**  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-creatures.esp
A9  Real Hunger, Cobl.esp  [Version 1.6.1]
**  NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp
AA  Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp  [Version 01]
**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.2]
AB  ShezriesTowns-Valenwood Patch.esp
AC  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

 

 

Here's the problem i'm having:

 

For starters, when I accepted the Rats quest from the Anvil Fighters Guild, I had reached the point of needing to talk to Penarus Inventius. When I talked to him about Thelas, he would say 'Let's go hunting.' then not move. I had this problem in a previous game, so I decided to go explore for a bit and come back. He had his shield ready and finally followed me to defeat the mountain lions. In this game, I tried exploring for a while, rested for several hours, even walked to the Imperial City and beyond and after returning to Anvil to try again, he STILL wouldn't move. I managed to find and defeat the lions myself and went back to talk to him. He replied as if he had been with me all along, and the quest moved on to the next stage, thankfully. Another problem i'm having at the moment involving NPC AI is the quest in Cheydinhal called Corruption And Concience. I've already spoken to Llevana and Garrus, who sent me off to find Aldos, the town drunk. I've done this quest a few times before without fail. This time, Aldos takes me all around the town on a much longer walk than normal, up towards the castle and through a strange hidden door called 'Open Cities AI Door' or something similar which is located (and totally invisible) to the right of the entryway into the castle hall itself (where the Count is located). After going through this door, Aldos heads down to his house, which was previously seized by the Cheydinhal guards. At this point, there was no guard in front of the door, and Aldos went inside. Since the door was locked, I couldn't follow him in, so I just waited for a few hours. The the quest marker for Aldos said he was inside Llevana's house, so in I went, only to find the quest marker saying to go back out again. After leaving, I saw Aldos again, and followed him to the front of his house, where there was a guard present. He met up with the guard and they both just stood there, not saying a word to each other. I talked to each of them several times, and the guards just kept saying how the house was seized, and nobody was allowed inside. Aldos kept telling me to get out of his way and watch what he does. I waited for several hours and still, they just stood there doing nothing. It finally made me think that this is some sort of AI problem most likely. The only mod i'm using that changes NPC AI as far as I know is the NPCs Alive mod, but even still, I don't know if that would change any NPCs other than the ones the .esp's specify. So at this point, i'm a little frustrated with this particular quest and thought i'd post the problem here. I have kept up on rebuilding my Bashed Patch every time I add/remove a mod. Has anyone had this problem before, or know what could be causing this issue?

Edited March 2, 2011 by bryman1970

[slygothmog]

It's not their AI. AI packages for those you mention kick in when quest stages are updated, so it's something stopping the Updates that's the problem ( their dialogue not being updated also makes me think this ).

I'm no expert on load order, but one thing I noticed was your using both COBL.esm and TamRes.esm, I tried using both, but got a warning from BOSS that you should not, so I removed COBL to prevent any problems that might occur whilst running both.

[bryman1970]

Shame on me. To be honest, I didn't even check those 2 mods for conflicts. I assumed since I didn't see them in the description or the read me, they were fine together. TamRes.esm is needed for the Fort Akatosh Redux mod, which i'll remove if I have to. I'd rather use Cobl anyway. Do you think they'd have anything to do with the problem?

 

Edit: I just checked BOSS and it says under the Cobl.esm "•Note: Do not use Tamrielic Ingredients and COBL at the same time.". It says nothing under the TamRes.esm. Is Tamriel Ingerdients and the Tamriel Resource Pack the same thing? I also thought i'd mention that I wasn't using the Tamriel Resource pack in my previous game when I had problems with the Rat quest.

Edited March 2, 2011 by bryman1970

[slygothmog]

To be honest I dont know. TamRes would not affect your quest updates in any way, but i'm not sure about COBL....I found it altered the generic 'Hello' of NPC's in ways I didn't like, but I've never heard of it causing problems with quest updates. I suspect something else is affecting them, but I dont have most of the mods you have installed, so I cant even guess at which one would cause it.

On a side note, I did have problems with Immersive travelers. I found NPC's would attack their horses and guards would kill the NPC's for doing this....I have no idea why though.

[bryman1970]

I'm not sure either, but I did find that Tamriel Ingredients is different than Tamriel Resources. Cobl adds the same things TI adds and then some. As far as Immersive Travelers, I didn't notice anything strange in my previous game. In this one, I noticed a few guards fighting with a pack of wolves. At some point during ther battle, the guard started attacking another guard and eventually killed him. I thought that was a little weird, but I guess it was nothing too serious. I'm not exactly sure what mods i'm using that I didn't use before when the Cand C quest worked fine. Even Reneer's Guard Overhaul didn't seem to affect it. Hmm, I wonder. Edited March 2, 2011 by bryman1970

[Striker879]

Ahh ... bugged quests. I'm bugged by bugged quests myself, so I've taken to having the UESP quest walkthrough up on the laptop beside me. Even then, for some quests you can do something before starting the quest that breaks it. No warnings ... just broken. I had a look at the two quests you mention. I'm not saying that your mods and/or load order aren't also involved in the problems but here's what I've found:

 

A Rat Problem

 

If you are in a rush, you can kill the lions yourself before Pinarus arrives at the location - he takes a long time getting there. Note that doing this will trigger a minor bug and make Pinarus wait for you indefinitely. As a result, he will not be available for training before you have walked him to the spot of the mountain lions, even after the quest is completed.

 

Pinarus' AI schedule is supposed to allow you to complete the quest, so perhaps one of your mods interfered there.

During the related quest, he will break off his routine in order to lend you a hand in tracking down the mountain lions that have been terrorizing Arvena Thelas’ pet rats.

 

 

Corruption and Conscience - Here's one with multiple ways to fail. Here's an excerpt from the bugs section with just Aldos bugs:

 

Sometimes, there is a bug that happens just at the point where Aldos is supposed to pull a knife on the guard in front of his house which for some reason will cause him not to draw, but instead leave you stuck in immobile-mode, unable to do anything. If this happens, try following console commands to fix it (PC version only):

prid 00003c8b4

kill

This will kill Aldos Othran and allow the quest to continue.

If you attack (then engage in fight) the guard in front of Aldos house, (while Aldos approaches for the encounter with this same guard) the moment Aldos starts the dialogue, you'd get stuck in immobile-mode. For the PS3 console, no solution exists but just to reload an earlier save game. The same bug can be achieved by casting a paralyze spell on the guard as Aldos approaches him. When the guard gets up, they'll both just stare at you while you're immobile.

If Ulrich is caught in some fighting after you have just begun this quest (only one journal entry) and is killed by one of the guards or townspeople, you are unable to complete the quest. Garrus tells you "We've got him now ... (etc)" but no topic to complete the quest is enabled for him. Llevana tells you "Ok, I guess we will do it your way" and does not give you the chance to talk to her further. Aldos Othran tells you to follow him but he goes nowhere. Lastly Ulrich's note does not exist in his room. There is no known way of fixing this issue apart from restoring to an earlier savegame.

This bug is fixed by the Unofficial Oblivion Patch.

Aldos Othran tells you to follow him to the outside of his house (where there normally should be a guard). There is no guard there and you just stand there in cutscene mode. No known fix exists.

Save before you speak to Aldos! If you encounter this bug, reload. Don't speak to him. Cast a Frenzy spell on Aldos while he is standing on the bridge near his house (around 10:30AM). He will draw his dagger and a nearby guard will rush in and kill him. Then the dialog for the next part of the quest will pop up ("He had led me to his old house, where he exchanged heated words with the guards...."). Now you can complete the quest as normal.

 

Again, perhaps a mod has 'helped' a buggy situation along (i.e. your Open Cities AI door) but Aldos doesn't always know where he's going or what he's doing (AI suffers from booze induced fog??).

[bryman1970]

I didn't realize there were known bugs for the C and C quest. A few of those options seem helpful though. As far as the Rats quests, i'm at the point where i'm supposed to follow Quill-Weave around, but she hasn't left her house yet, and it's locked. I tried waiting a while and that didn't seem to trigger anything. I put that particular quest on the backburner for now and moved on to other things.

 

 

Since Aldos gets killed anyway, I could use the console method and hopefully it will move on to the next part of the quest as stated. It seems like it's just a matter of him getting killed by a guard, whether it's in front of his house or not. I'll try the console option first and post the results.

 

 

Thanks for the informative response.

 

Edit: Well, I used the console method and it worked perfectly. Hopefully this pattern of problems won't continue throughout the game. I also encountered the bug with the Bloated Float quest. I've tried it twice and it crashed both times, so I had to restart before I even went onto the boat. I've finished it before with no problems, but not this time. There's a special sword to be gained through finishing this quest that I really want, but I don't want to cheat to get it. I'll keep trying and hopefully get past the bug.

Edited March 2, 2011 by bryman1970

[Striker879]

I feel your pain. After I had trouble with a couple of quests and started reading through the UESP walkthroughs I've gained a sense of how 'quirky' a lot of the quests are (must cross eyes just so ... stand on one foot and say "There's no place like home" three times). Having never written a script, never mind a quest script it's easy to throw stones. I've got a lot of plywood covering my own windows now (hmmm ... wonder how that happened).

[Graxster]

I can tell you for a fact that in my last game, after installing Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul, I started having quest bugs just like you're having. Running my current game w/o OOO and quests work and update fine.

 

-Grax

[bryman1970]

I was thinking it could be OOO, but i'm very addicted to that mod now I can't NOT use it. I actually haven't tried any other overhauls, but for future reference, maybe there's one that doesn't cause problems.

 

Edit: I'm still having some major problems with the C and C quest.

 

 

I'm at the stage in the quest where Garrus is to meet me at the Cheydinhal Inn in 2 hours. I went to the inn and waited a few hours, and as soon as the next quest stage message pops up (and the sound to go with it), the game crashes to the desktop. I've tried this at least 5 or 6 times and i've had the exact same results. I tried waiting in a different place to see if that would help, but it didn't. I'm a little worried I won't even be able to move on to other quests due to this. I don't think i've ever had this many problems in such a short time with this game. I wonder if it has something to do with using Better Cities and having Cheydinhal as an 'open' city. Or maybe using the console to kill Aldos threw some sort of glitych in the game. I was thinking that maybe I could leave the city and wait in the wilderness.

 

 

Striker, I don't know what other bugs or solutions there are for this quest as well as others. If you could give me some links you've used to help you in your quests, including bug solutions, that would help out a lot. As far as the problem i'm currently having, have you seen anything about it anywhere in your research?

 

Edit: I tried waiting in the wilderness, and as soon as the quest updated, the game crashed. I also tried selecting another quest to be the current one, but when I waited 2 hours, that quest updated anyway, and once again, the game crashed. I even tried going to the console and typing 'setstage MS10 100', which would bring the quest to the end after talking to Garrus. However, after waiting 2 hours, it updated again and the game crashed. :wallbash: This is a very persistant crash and I have no idea what's happening. I can't seem to move past this point, no matter what quest I decide to take on. I'm tempted to try and remove OOO, but i'd hate to remove it and all the patches i'm using only to find out that isn't the cause. I'm always nervous about removing major mods like this. I've had bad luck with this game in the past, which is why I still haven't finished it yet.

 

Edit....again:

I managed to load a save right before I retrieved Ulrith's journal. The game hasn't crashed, and i've waited more than 2 hours just to see what would happen. I'm going to hold off on that quest for now. Maybe it was just that specific time of day, as well as a combination of other things that caused the persistant crashes. I'm still curious about whether OOO is indeed causing all these problems. If that is the case, i'm more than willing to remove it from my game. I've also read a bit about Francesco's Levelled Creatures (and items too, I think). As far as OOO goes, i'll miss all the extra armor, weapons, and other items added, as well as whatever NPCs/creatures it adds. Perhaps Francesco's (or a different mod altogether) would allow me to just pllace some of those into the game without causing problems. Or perhaps there's an overhaul that is more or less guaranteed to cause less problems.

 

Edited March 3, 2011 by bryman1970