Libyan Civil War

[DariusMoranda]

This 'war' is orchestrated by a third party, as many before this one, my people and myself experienced the same hegemony in Yugoslavian war 1991-1995 and Kosovo War 1996-2002. The so called 'poor and righteous rebels' were armed and sent against the state, the state responded with force, and the state was found guilty for it's actions, the third party used media for that properly and served all kinds of scams to those who were watching, and with those actions, they threw a puddle of mud in our faces, never to be washed away. Lies, plotting and judging without any reason, except the financial and strategic interest.

 

The same scenario is in Libya.

 

But I am not tricked by it. I was in Libya for 4 times, as I mentioned in one of my posts. Nothing was wrong there, that was a land without poor people. They lived with more freedom then in many democratic states all over the globe that I personally was introduced. There is a whole misconception about that, because the media is in control and favor of the 'poor rebels and the voice of freedom'.

 

Also, Colonel Gaddafi is not a nutcase nor a violent man at all. He led his own revolution over 40 years ago against the vicious royal family who's justice was based on decapitating people in the streets for various crimes. And he won , without any blood spilled, a bloodless revolution it was. He gave his people free education and free health care. Women rights were repressed in the former kinggom, but Gaddafi took care of it too, making them more with their looks and general activity , he installed them in every structure of the state.

 

Colonel Gaddafi loved his people and gave everything for his country. He is not a perfect leader and not a god, but he is better then many leaders of this world, he proved it with good actions in his past. He is far from a dictator as he is presented in media and the last thing he wanted is this situation he has in the country where he was born and raised, where he made his military career and where he raised his children.

 

Also, when no one wanted to even see my own country on the map, he offered his helping hand and was always loyal to us, for many, many years, since Tito's time even. Food, clothing, weapons, menpower, everything he could , he sent to help us in a great struggle we had, as we were alone against the whole world.He gave jobs for thousands of my countrymen in his land and many of them worked even for him, 3 of my ex colleagues worked personally for him, my woman's aunt was a nurse to the family, personally.

 

Many of my countrymen stayed there even in these time of crisis, and I have first hand information that the struggle over there is not that big like it is presented in the media and that the rebels aren't so righteous and nice at all. Many of them are commanded by radical fundamentalists and they recently closed all of their women in mosques , with a strict order not to get out and to cover their faces. They do the same like these scum here did back in the 90's, they chop heads, loot , rape and torture their opponents, there is no honor in that nor a righteous path should be written in blood spilled in such ways. Colonel had every right to respond with force as the threat is big, many lives are at steak , the whole country is, along with all the natural riches Libya has. I would do the same as he did- ' You want OUR oil to give to someone else? I gave that oil to YOU! You benefit from it, it is YOURS! This is YOUR country. This is YOUR people. And I am YOUR leader, I gave you food and medicine at the table, you drive your car because i gave you right to EARN that, you married your woman and you could do it normally , without fear that someone will see her face, and that is what I <<< made it possible.

 

You want more? You want me dead after I fed you and took care of you? Alright, brother. Hold your pants.

 

An order the to army general for a full assault, marshal law for 30 days and cutting off of supplies and every basic need.'

 

It is a sad thing to see that people are throwing rocks at someone who threw bread on them.

 

But money talks and that is the real picture of today, people are greedy and hungry for more and more.

 

Is it oil? is it gold? What is it precisely? It is not important. There is no price , no money nor a precious material which can pay a life of a human. ONE LIFE, just one is worth more then the whole pile of money of this planet.

 

If Colonel loses his battle , then it is done. Either radicals will come onto power instead, or so called 'democratic government for prosperity and transition' will be installed by the third party, either one of those, the same thing both will suck up Libya til the very end, for someone's interest.

 

I hope that will not happen, I truly hope that Libya will stay alive with it's own identity, never to let anyone else to interfere or to command in their own territory.

 

I was taught and raised to be loyal with honor and if I can't do more, I will at least speak in a favor of my country's true friend and a brother. I wish I can pick up my old gear and to go there and to defend the land which defended mine once, but life circumstances are merciless in this moment.

 

I wish all the luck and strength of this world to Colonel and may he fight a good fight, if he dies , may he dies easy and on the soil where he had his first steps. I thank him for all his help on behalf of my people and may he mop down the foreign terror and those poor excuses of humans, the traitors of their own land.

 

No one has rights to interfere is someone else business, especially not if it is a poor motive such as money, like it is in this real example.

 

I understand death in honor, for a woman's hand, for country, for defending your family, for children and their future... but thousands being dead for money? Those deaths has no point, they are useless and will become only a statistic on someone's financial board. That saddens me beyond words.

 

The world watches, and sooner or later, the real truth and picture will come up and the world will know then, who was right in this war.

 

If it comes to that, you die as a martyr , Colonel Gaddafi, your friends here are with you and support you , same as you were with us. We never forget our brothers.

 

*Salutes*

 

Moranda

[HappyHerring]

This 'war' is orchestrated by a third party, as many before this one, my people and myself experienced the same hegemony in Yugoslavian war 1991-1995 and Kosovo War 1996-2002. The so called 'poor and righteous rebels' were armed and sent against the state, the state responded with force, and the state was found guilty for it's actions, the third party used media for that properly and served all kinds of scams to those who were watching, and with those actions, they threw a puddle of mud in our faces, never to be washed away. Lies, plotting and judging without any reason, except the financial and strategic interest.

 

The same scenario is in Libya.

 

But I am not tricked by it. I was in Libya for 4 times, as I mentioned in one of my posts. Nothing was wrong there, that was a land without poor people. They lived with more freedom then in many democratic states all over the globe that I personally was introduced. There is a whole misconception about that, because the media is in control and favor of the 'poor rebels and the voice of freedom'.

 

Also, Colonel Gaddafi is not a nutcase nor a violent man at all. He led his own revolution over 40 years ago against the vicious royal family who's justice was based on decapitating people in the streets for various crimes. And he won , without any blood spilled, a bloodless revolution it was. He gave his people free education and free health care. Women rights were repressed in the former kinggom, but Gaddafi took care of it too, making them more with their looks and general activity , he installed them in every structure of the state.

 

Colonel Gaddafi loved his people and gave everything for his country. He is not a perfect leader and not a god, but he is better then many leaders of this world, he proved it with good actions in his past. He is far from a dictator as he is presented in media and the last thing he wanted is this situation he has in the country where he was born and raised, where he made his military career and where he raised his children.

 

Also, when no one wanted to even see my own country on the map, he offered his helping hand and was always loyal to us, for many, many years, since Tito's time even. Food, clothing, weapons, menpower, everything he could , he sent to help us in a great struggle we had, as we were alone against the whole world.He gave jobs for thousands of my countrymen in his land and many of them worked even for him, 3 of my ex colleagues worked personally for him, my woman's aunt was a nurse to the family, personally.

 

Many of my countrymen stayed there even in these time of crisis, and I have first hand information that the struggle over there is not that big like it is presented in the media and that the rebels aren't so righteous and nice at all. Many of them are commanded by radical fundamentalists and they recently closed all of their women in mosques , with a strict order not to get out and to cover their faces. They do the same like these scum here did back in the 90's, they chop heads, loot , rape and torture their opponents, there is no honor in that nor a righteous path should be written in blood spilled in such ways. Colonel had every right to respond with force as the threat is big, many lives are at steak , the whole country is, along with all the natural riches Libya has. I would do the same as he did- ' You want OUR oil to give to someone else? I gave that oil to YOU! You benefit from it, it is YOURS! This is YOUR country. This is YOUR people. And I am YOUR leader, I gave you food and medicine at the table, you drive your car because i gave you right to EARN that, you married your woman and you could do it normally , without fear that someone will see her face, and that is what I <<< made it possible.

 

You want more? You want me dead after I fed you and took care of you? Alright, brother. Hold your pants.

 

An order the to army general for a full assault, marshal law for 30 days and cutting off of supplies and every basic need.'

 

It is a sad thing to see that people are throwing rocks at someone who threw bread on them.

 

But money talks and that is the real picture of today, people are greedy and hungry for more and more.

 

Is it oil? is it gold? What is it precisely? It is not important. There is no price , no money nor a precious material which can pay a life of a human. ONE LIFE, just one is worth more then the whole pile of money of this planet.

 

If Colonel loses his battle , then it is done. Either radicals will come onto power instead, or so called 'democratic government for prosperity and transition' will be installed by the third party, either one of those, the same thing both will suck up Libya til the very end, for someone's interest.

 

I hope that will not happen, I truly hope that Libya will stay alive with it's own identity, never to let anyone else to interfere or to command in their own territory.

 

I was taught and raised to be loyal with honor and if I can't do more, I will at least speak in a favor of my country's true friend and a brother. I wish I can pick up my old gear and to go there and to defend the land which defended mine once, but life circumstances are merciless in this moment.

 

I wish all the luck and strength of this world to Colonel and may he fight a good fight, if he dies , may he dies easy and on the soil where he had his first steps. I thank him for all his help on behalf of my people and may he mop down the foreign terror and those poor excuses of humans, the traitors of their own land.

 

No one has rights to interfere is someone else business, especially not if it is a poor motive such as money, like it is in this real example.

 

I understand death in honor, for a woman's hand, for country, for defending your family, for children and their future... but thousands being dead for money? Those deaths has no point, they are useless and will become only a statistic on someone's financial board. That saddens me beyond words.

 

The world watches, and sooner or later, the real truth and picture will come up and the world will know then, who was right in this war.

 

If it comes to that, you die as a martyr , Colonel Gaddafi, your friends here are with you and support you , same as you were with us. We never forget our brothers.

 

*Salutes*

 

Moranda

I find it hard to reconcile a an insightful and intelligent person as you describe Colonel Ghaddafi as being with the same Ghaddafi who spent much of his nation's wealth providing arms, ammunition, training as well as cash support for "poor and righteous rebels" over the past four decades. If "poor and righteous rebels" are wrong in the instances you illustrate are they not wrong in all cases. Such being the case then any politty which exists in this world as a result of rebellion in past times is illegitimate and should return to the 'loving arms' of their previous overlords. Welcome back Americashire and Republic of Irelandshire etc as all is forgiven! :dry:

[ginnyfizz]

Quite so, happy pig. The same Ghadaffi who has been up to his eyeballs in at least two high profile terrorist attacks in our country (and shame on whoever released that minion of his involved in the Lockerbie bombing), and numerous less high profile but just as dangerous sedition spreading activities such as arms shipments to the IRA.

 

Whilst I would say the same thing that I did about the situation in Egypt and take the point that the rebels may not necessarily be any better than Ghadaffi himself, I cannot subscribe to Darius' favourable view of Ghadaffi either. He is quite capable of pumping out propaganda of his own and only letting visiting foreigners such as you, Darius, see what he wants you to.

[Aurielius]

@Darius

Though by and large I find loyalty a commendable virtue, in this case I think it is misplaced. Even keeping in mind that Libya was one of your few friends during the conflict in the former Yugoslavia, Libya thought there was an advantage to being aligned with you versus NATO. None of this changes Kadaffi's record of terrorism and his suppression of his own people for over 40 years which is quite well documented. The day of the strong man in the middle east seems to be waning, maybe this is a sign of social and political maturation and something to be warily commended. I hope for the best and prepare for the worst when rampant revolution sweeps through the petrochemical heart of the planet.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Aurielius

[WizardOfAtlantis]

At least Geddafi was a known element. Who knows how the rebels will be once they win.

 

Anyone think that this will spread to Saudi Arabia, speaking of hand- and head-chopping Fundamentalists?

[ginnyfizz]

I'd go along with you on that, Wizard, Ghadaffi is undoubtedly mad, bad and dangerous to know, but we cannot be certain of anything about the rebels at this time.

 

There seems to be something of a lid on things in Saudi Arabia at the moment, but who knows how that will turn out? No doubt there is some kind of iron fisted crackdown going on to keep that lid on.

[JimboUK]

At least Geddafi was a known element. Who knows how the rebels will be once they win.

 

Anyone think that this will spread to Saudi Arabia, speaking of hand- and head-chopping Fundamentalists?

 

I can understand the concerns there but they have to weighed up against the peoples right of self determination, we can quite rightly expect a bit of a backlash towards the west, after all we were the ones helping to keep these tyrants in power.

[WizardOfAtlantis]

At least Geddafi was a known element. Who knows how the rebels will be once they win.

 

Anyone think that this will spread to Saudi Arabia, speaking of hand- and head-chopping Fundamentalists?

 

I can understand the concerns there but they have to weighed up against the peoples right of self determination, we can quite rightly expect a bit of a backlash towards the west, after all we were the ones helping to keep these tyrants in power.

If it's a positive backlash, it will be welcome. The bill for irresponsibility is a *bleep* when it finally arrives.

 

If it's a fundamentalist/religious backlash, as it might be easy to whip this all up into given enough time, then that's another story.

 

Ignorance is a terrible thing, both for the West on how we treat other countries, and for the Middle-East, who I think need to get out of the religious stranglehold they're in like we were some centuries ago. After centuries, we're still being choked till we see stars, but at least we're not being strangled to death. http://www.thenexusforums.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/tongue.gif

 

Also, I really am not sure just how freely self-determining these rebels really are, if that makes sense. Part of me thinks they might simply be opportunists, riding the wave so that they gain power themselves. Or perhaps take power for somebody else... Power they will have, time will tell how they use it...if they can hold onto it.

[crimsonedge11]

I think this is an example to use of the kind of hill a people who wish to revolt have to climb to overthrow a determined dictator who will use any means necessary to keep power. Gaddafi has attack helicopters and fighter jets, no amount of ground forces can defeat that without air support. The international community is more or less just pissing around about this situation. There is plenty grounds here to intervene and put a no fly zone over Libya. Obama was awful quick to throw Mubarak under the bus at the first sign of revolt, but is hesitating to get involved with Libya, which has an even more horrible dictator to deal with than Egypt did with Mubarak. I think for one reason or another the governments of the West wish Gaddafi to keep power, otherwise they would have already intervened. I think the governments of the West care more about Libya's oil supply than they do the Libyan people, and would rather stick with the devil they know, who will go back to supplying them with oil after the dust settles. Gaddafi could easily use oil as a hostage, and say, if you get involved directly I will destroy all of the oil infrastructure in the country, or etc. Edited March 9, 2011 by crimsonedge11

[HappyHerring]

I think this is an example to use of the kind of hill a people who wish to revolt have to climb to overthrow a determined dictator who will use any means necessary to keep power. Gaddafi has attack helicopters and fighter jets, no amount of ground forces can defeat that without air support. The international community is more or less just pissing around about this situation. There is plenty grounds here to intervene and put a no fly zone over Libya. Obama was awful quick to throw Mubarak under the bus at the first sign of revolt, but is hesitating to get involved with Libya, which has an even more horrible dictator to deal with than Egypt did with Mubarak. I think for one reason or another the governments of the West wish Gaddafi to keep power, otherwise they would have already intervened. I think the governments of the West care more about Libya's oil supply than they do the Libyan people, and would rather stick with the devil they know, who will go back to supplying them with oil after the dust settles. Gaddafi could easily use oil as a hostage, and say, if you get involved directly I will destroy all of the oil infrastructure in the country, or etc.

This argument is applicable to any nation which has significant economic and or political influence throughout the world. If they stop to think for a few moments most people in the west would agree that the Chinese sytem of governance and the conditions of the Chinese workers are appalling, so why aren't we intervening there? Apart from war and a complete collapse of the current economic system in the world what do we have to loose? Throughout the world there are many states whom we find objectionable, should we act on our consciences and destroy our economic sytem for those consciences? In the seventies we had vast increases in the costs of petroleum derived products in part due to American 'interference' in the middle east, we still live with the results even now. To those who argue that maybe the quick ending of our dependence of oil would be worth the dislocation I would ask how in the time between such chaos and viable non internal combution transport and electrical production would we transport our food and heat and light our hospitals? Just as the oil hikes of the seventies promoted a temporary and token attempt to move toward other energy sources so would our pious attempts at regulating the affairs of other nations produce platitudes and small budget increases for R&D departments. We would still be dependent on the unsavoury successors to the unsavoury people we removed and would have also caused catastrophic reduction in our own nations' economic viability and political standing in the world communtity, that is unless we were to do away with the equal rights of poorer and third world nations in world discourse. So would could end up a few decades down the line with the very neocolonialist system so many argue exists today :sad: