AWOP (full of "poo poo"?)

[djmystro]

I reguarly trawl through Google looking for feedback on AWOP at the end of the night to wind down after modding all day. BTW Big thanks to all my Russian and Japanese supporters who have given me hours of reading fun thanks to Google translate.

One forum site in particular ('Something Awful') features many references to AWOP, probably about 60% negative. That's not great but whatever, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Unfortunately most of these posts do not go into detail in such a way as to help me solve/fix whatever it is about the mod that they do not like. This is a shame. It seems many of the regular and more informed posters on that site in particular seem to prefer aesthetic tweaks (?) or gameplay overhauls (understandable but personally I still don't like killing the same enemies over and over) compared with quest/adventure mods (which rarely get a positive mention). I can't figure this out myself. The things that draw me back to a game for continued play are:

The chances of finding a whole new area or awesome weapon or even just a cool new food item.

The non-repetitive nature of the gameplay in an environment where I can do or go anywhere I want where nothing plays out exactly the same.

Loot, loot and more loot. I can't play games that don't have me scavenging through bins and desks for ammo anymore.

Plot, storyline, atmosphere. The ability to walk into a room a gauge exactly what has happened in it even up to 240 years previous without even reading notes.

The ability to mod the game (obviously) and add loads more enemies and weapons in particular.

Sometime, after getting the perfect balance of these factors, I would consider adding aesthetic tweaks (at the moment I have none).

 

In a nutshell, what does the vanilla game give you that AWOP does not?

Things that are frequently reported in a negative light (especially on the 'Something Awful' site):

1: Too much loot: Hence a Low Loot option (currently WIP)

2: Enemies too tough (so many ways around this I can't be arsed to talk about them)

3: No unique textures. (Intentional in the main file).

 

One post which I felt I had to respond to (to respond on the Something Awful forum would have cost me $10 and it just 'aint worth it) goes like this:

 

"You know, maybe my standards are a little higher but what I've played of WoP, I'm not all that impressed. Seems like a dude with a reasonable amount of skill with GECK who just shoved as much poo poo into one ESP as he could and released it with little to no testing or effort beyond that. That giant endless dungeon that spans the entire state of Nevada he made is just a shade of this side of ridiculous too. I think I'd appreciate it more if he focused on making it more of a quest mod and less of a 'shove poo poo into every empty space I can find before other mods do' kind of mod."

 

He later adds that there are not enough exits from the Underground.

 

1: What the hell is "poo-poo"? I am guessing that this is just some kind of general term that can cover anything from NPCs, weapons, books, loactions themselves, doors, wire, a sense of perspective, the days of the week, clouds, Robocop 3, or even the mind of a flamer without a point. I certainly do not remember including large quantities of faeces in this project. There's none in the GECK after all.

2: ESP? You should be running the ESM.

3: I am one man. I test heavily but still miss stuff out for time to time. Each new relase requires a bug fix period to iron out all the new (and rare) creases.

4: No effort beyond that? So far I have put more hours into this project than I did my last paid job which I worked at for over six months. If I have not put any effort into any area of this mod I fail to see when and where that happened.

5: "Giant endless dungeon that spans the entire state of Nevada"? Have you even played this mod?

The Underground network stretches from South Vegas West Ruins to Boulder City spanning just the Strip and just over half the explorable map horizontally. Vertically it descends in an inverted U-shape to cover about a quarter or the map distance. Even if it was a soild block of stuff down there this would still only cover approx 1/8 of the explorable map.

6: "I think I'd appreciate it more if he focused on making it more of a quest mod and less of a 'shove poo poo into every empty space I can find before other mods do' kind of mod."

If I had any idea what you meant and thought for one second that you actually apreciated any aspect of this mod I may consider doing something.

As it is I seem to be being accused of opening up buildings just for the sake of it to stop others doing the same thing. I actually stopped opening up buildings ages ago to prevent this sort of mod conflict. Again a reference to 'poo-poo' rather than actually having the vocabulary to articulate the exact nature of thier woes.

7: Not enough exits from the Underground? Well I would have thought a fellow with such high standards would have spotted the obvious design flaw in adding loads of easy ways to get into a highly controlled environemnt that was supposed to protect thousands from an impending war for potentially hundreds of years. Not to mention the fact that the loot is spread out in such a fasion as to get better in the harder to access areas (as opposed to just being flung about randomly like a child throwing stuff out of a pram).

 

That pretty much covers that and it feels good to get it off my chest.

Anyway, back to the main point of this post.

What would AWOP (or any quest/adventure mod) have to do to be as essential to the game as the game itself (or at the very least a good DLC)?

I won't lie, I want to make the best mod going bar none. It's my plan. Right now I have the time, the willpower and just enough savings to scrape through it. Plus I have 90 unique locations in hand and 'aint no-one gonna take that away from me.

Edited March 15, 2011 by djmystro

[Quetzlsacatanango]

Who cares what people say, especially on SA. If they don't like it, let them make something better or shut the hell up.

[djmystro]

Quetzlsacatanango:

I ain't bothered most of the time, in fact for the most part I understand peoples POV even when they really don't get AWOP. This one kept me up last night though for some reason so I felt compelled to leave a response (just a damn shame I couldn't do it on thier forum).

[Quetzlsacatanango]

No one's forcing anyone to use your plugin. Pretty much goes for any mod, and for any user, SA or here.

[bben46]

Only 60% negative on Something Awful? That's not bad at all. :thumbsup:

 

Not everyone is going to like your mod no matter what you do to try and please them. If they didn't like it what are they doing still playing it? They probably think that what they are doing is 'constructive' criticism by demanding that you change your mod to be what they think it should be instead of what you intended it to be. And, based on his commentary, I doubt if he has any clue on what is actually required to make a mod himself. :rolleyes:

 

Reply on the same thread that you are intrigued by his suggestions, and if he would go ahead and make the changes, and submit them to you, IF they meet your own high standards you 'might' include them in the next release. My guess is you will never see anything from him that resembles a mod. :tongue:

[djmystro]

bben46 :

Cheers dude, thanks for the support. I guess you are right about many things there. :thumbsup:

I'd like to reply back on the same thread but I don't think I want to pay $10 for the opportunity (I guess I can see why the people on there are a bit annoyed).

[simplywayne90]

I've enjoyed your mod a lot djmystro

 

However I have no clue how it plays alone, I use nVamp since it makes the game a lot more challenging, but your areas and things are very well made, and I know your currently working on storylines, and clutter placement, so I can only imagine that your mod will be even more fun.

 

I've already given you resources on your other thread. But I could suggest more stuff I guess.

 

Custom rewards and things at the end of areas. - People like to get something good after 15 mintutes exploring and dying. However this would require permissions, and would make your mod pretty heavy in file size.

 

Storylines for all the areas. - Like in vaults where as you descend you learn more about the story and things. However, you include tons of areas and I'd rather see more areas and things rather than non-essential stories for areas i've already cleared likely.

 

Custom Bosses and Creatures - Using various resources like C.I.B or the Horror movie mutants resource from Fallout 3 nexus, you can surprise and shock players with bosses and themed areas.

 

Random Scenarios - You could include scenarios like, perhaps you help some NCR/Legion patrol sweep one of the areas, or you save generic NPCs that either help you clear out the area or just run away.

 

Random Scripted Things - Try reading my 2nd method in How to Make special encounters thread. You could use something similar and perhaps have a few areas that appear randomly as the player travels. Like perhaps they are walking in the desert and a message box pops-up saying "Under your feet the sand crumbles and reveals the entrance to a tunnel." And then a sewer grate activator spawns on the players feet.

 

References/Easter Eggs/Fallout jokes - Humor is a big part of Fallout, a normal Fallout game should be at least around 60% of humor and parodies. So try something similar like I suggested before in the other thread, like maybe include things like graffeti to make fun of popular mods like "FOOK You!" or "Project Utah is better than Neveda!" or spoof popular games like Halo. I had a funny idea of including skulls like in Halo and have them play the xbox 360 achievement noise and insult the player like the "A hand is not a girlfriend" skull or funny little insults like that.

 

I'd say more but i think thats enough for the moment.

Edited March 15, 2011 by simplywayne90

[rickerhk]

I just set up a new loadout of mods and started a new game this weekend. I'm having a great time with your mod as it is. I don't mind all the loot (I'm normally ambivalent about the quantiy anyway) because I have one or two followers that burn through ammo like crazy ;) It's good to have some actual combat this time around.

[djmystro]

rickerhk: Cool, gald to know you are enjoying it, especially after all the assistnace you have given me getting it to work . :thumbsup:

 

simplywayne90 :

Cool, thanks for the ideas. Lots of good stuff there.

Custom Rewards: I have a few mods that I can pool from for this and thanks to EARCAHE42 I now have permission to include some very cool new guns. I will be contacting a lot more authors with regards to clutter/ingestibles (e.g I found a load of really awesome mods by clintmich that add a ton of interestring new misc objects - I must remember to endorse those) also even more weapons and armor although I have not researched new armors much yet (so any armor requests are welcome).

Storylines: I have plans to make about five more big stories and a handful of smaller entries, though not much more coz for some reason it seems to take me a disproportionate amount of time to write the things. I am happy to recieve (and actively looking for) contributions in this area.

Bosses: I'm definately gonna hafta do a boss patch at some point and the Horror Mutants were definately one of the first to spring to mind. VVV also looks very handy (and has very much changed my game for the better already).

Random Scenarios: Nice idea, I'll look into how to do that, it should not be too difficult (I think)

Scripted events: I definately like the secret door script idea. I have been considering adding a load of very well hidden unmarkered areas for extra replay value and that sort or script would be perfect for certain areas. I will definately look into your advice on this area further.

Easter Eggs/humour: I have a few ideas in this area (wait 'till you hear Eddie's Song :) but not a huge amount in relation to Fallout lore so I'll try and put a bit more of that in too.

New graffiti would definately come in useful for the expanded version. I feel a bit limited by the current set. I have not created any custom textures or meshes before but I am bound to have a go eventually and this should be an easy place to start.

Thanks again for your ideas and tips.

Edited March 15, 2011 by djmystro

[lordrahl]

Honestly, I think the guy on the SA forums was naught but a troll. Vague claims, lack of coherent argument, and a pathetic insult....sure smells like a troll to me. Probably had his behind handed to him by the tech raiders or something and so left that "review" because of it.

 

Loving the new version of AWOP. Will post some feedback on the mod's discussion in the next couple days, detailing what I think about the recent additions.

 

As for what would make your mod more essential: You've got the big part of the formula taken care of already with the exploration, loot, and combat, I think. More story, background, and fallout references, a la Masseling's background, would be a great addition...talking to him is still my favorite part of the mod thus far.

 

The scripted events and random scenarios sound good and would add a lot to replayability, I think.

 

Another good addition would be to add some quests with multiple ways to complete the objectives: stupid path(unique dialogue and options for stupid characters), combat, stealth, and negotiation. This is, I think, something most quest designers have lost sight of over the years. In my opinion, this is the very thing that made Fallout 1 and 2 so great: the ability to play through its content in completely different ways.